SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

ICO, don't give up this easy. Go to your lawyer's appointment Thursday and ask him for some good advice on how to rattle a cheating wife , otherwise you have just given her a licence to cheat. Present her with D papers. Don't lure yourself into thinking that you can just wait it out until OM returns to the UK and then her cheating will be over. You can bet that once she has gotten over OM, she will only be looking for another hot hunk to have an affair with while her hubby babysits at home.

In closing, just remember that "Women do not fall in love with door mats, they just wipe their feet on them."

I just read this thread again. I can see you feeling pressured to step up and start doing things that are contrary to your beliefs. you do not want to be a sneaky person, who spies and snoops. You want to trust your wife. You want things to go back to the way they were. These are things decent people do.

Stop. Read what I just wrote. Everyone who has encountered the pain of this with someone they love, someone they envision a future with wants these things.

I wanted the same things. I wanted the normalcy of crawling into bed at night and resting my head on his chest and falling asleep the way I had done before. I did not want the mistrust to cause a rift .. I wanted things to be normal again.

So I had this nagging doubt but at the same time my denial was so deeply entrenched because I erroneously believed that other people feel and think as I do.

It takes time to wrap your head and heart around 'betrayal.' For some people it takes a long time. You mind bends inside out trying to accommodate this.

But the truth is after DDAY nothing is the same. You know that. Everything changes whether we want to admit it to ourselves or not.

I hope that things work out for you. I also did not want to spy on my ex. But he is not like me ... he did not share the same values and morals that I had. He was not trustworthy. He was not worthy of my need to trust. So he was not suitable partner for me. And that is what tore things down for me. I hope things are different for you and the outcome is so much better.

((hugs))

So yesterday I decided to talk to my WW about things and I mentioned wanting to set a date for a decision on both sides. Three months from DDay. If we can't decide, then we divorce. I mentioned maybe getting a post-nuptial.

She was not happy. In the end, I backed down. She told me that I need time away. To go stay at my brother's for a week.

I ended up convincing her to give two days before I decide to go off to my bother's. Two days where we aren't hurting each other.

We put the kids to bed and she went for a workout. I started getting sad. I thought to myself that I fliched, she won. There is going to be no respect and I have no dignity left.

I started seriously thinking about separation and divorce. I started writing down things that we'll have to do to untangle everything.

When she came up from working out, I told her that I think we need to start separating everything in preparation.

She broke down and started to cry. I was already crying. She said that she couldn't handle the roller coaster. I had already decided that I need to go to my brother's house. How could I live like this.

So we both are sobbing. She tells me that she wants our marriage and our family. She knows what she did this. She doesn't want me to go but thinks I need it.

I told her that I felt that if I go, this is the beginning of the end. We went from me being gone until Saturday morning, to just taking one night off, to gather myself.

I gave up last night. I really think I gave up on R. I don't know if I can do this. I keep thinking that even if we get back together and get to a good point, do I have to worry every time we have an argument that she's going to go out and bang someone else?

I just don't know how to overcome this.

For her part, she has already given me access to everything. I know all of her passwords, I think at least.

She has talked about coming clean to her boss. She is looking for jobs. I don't know if she's updated her resume but she was doing stuff.

She's been very open. She tells me when she is getting on her phone and what for. She doesn't keep her phone on her all of the time anymore.

She needs space. I probably need space. I just feel like this is the beginning of the end.

I left my home this morning with a suitcase. I left behind my family. This is just one of the worst feelings ever.

To say I'm hurting is an understatement. I've haven't really been angry. I tried to make myself angry, I just can't. I don't know if maybe that's telling right there. Maybe there is no hope.

You flinched and she won? Okay. It happened to me. Because I went to MC after dday for 6 weeks. That was six weeks of my wife lying to both of us. And still contact AP #1. The only thing that woke her up to No Contact was my threatening to destroy his life. To leave flyers about their affair all over his church.

I still hurt about that. That she loved someone else they only way to get my wife to stop cheating was to use that love against her.

I flinched and my wife won a great number of times. I didn't realize it at the time, but when she was bowing up, she was bowing up against me AND our kids. That's what snapped me out of my fog. I won't let anyone threaten the safety of my kids. Myself and my wife included.

If I had found SI sooner? I don't know that I would have been strong enough to take this advice either. Some of it feels really rough.

This place is still the best place to get all the pain out. Start a thread about how bad it hurts. We can help with that part too man.

And if you need to step away from SI? Cool. We'll be here if you want to come back.

Wishing you strength, brother!

NO no no! Go back home right now!

You have no idea how bad of an idea it is to leave right now. Your lawyer will tell you why, but until that appointment go back to your family's home right away!!!!!

If you're leaving the house, she's playing you again. If anyone needs to leave, it should be her.

I know it hurts like hell, but Notthevictem is right. You should not leave your home.

Legally, it's making a statement. Emotionally, it's another form of flinching.

Keep posting, you'll find strength here.

This reaction is precisely why I think the methodology I put forth in my first post is better than the extremely direct and harsh methodology too many press here on SI.

Don’t get me wrong! I think we need to be extremely focused and direct after d-day but there can be immense difference between reality and theory. Like when I was a cop then according to the theory anyone I arrested had to comply with my commands. Reality was that I had to force more than a few into my car and into holding-cells. With experience I learned to cajole people to do what I wanted them to do with a combination of firmness and persistence.

I suggested you simply tell her you are assuming the affair is over until and unless she a) commits in a clear way to the marriage and b) shows you with action and behavior she is committed.

Others have suggested you on one hand work towards D while with the other lay down rules and regulations she has to comply with in order to have a chance at marriage.

There is a slight but important difference.

In one you are dictating and allowing her to feel forced into all actions. She gets the sense that no matter what it won’t be enough. In the other she’s aware that it’s her choice to do what’s required to save the marriage. It’s coerced versus free-will.

In the way I suggest your role is to keep your options open. You clear the path to divorce, are completely aware of your rights and what effects D will have. You clear out your personal issues, clean finances and basically make the path to D a clear, paved road that you can go down at your own speed and leisure.

At the same time she either does NOT clearly and vocally commit. Therefore you really don’t give a fart if she’s still blowing Mr. English in the board-room. It’s not something you can control beyond what actions you have already taken.

Instead you continue with what you CAN control: the separation of your lives.

If she verbally states she wants the marriage then you tell her what you need for that to happen.

Frankly leaving her job isn’t what’s needed per se. What’s needed is that you are assured they are no longer in contact. The BEST and QUICKEST way to get that is leaving her job. So your demand shouldn’t necessarily be “leave your job” but “assure me there is no contact and that IF your job requires there is contact how can I feel safer about it a) being minimal and b) being purely professional”.

This in turn might lead her to select to leave her job. It could also lead to her telling management about the affair and asking for different projects than those Mr. English is on. The barometer that evaluates what’s enough is YOU.

While this is going on you always keep your eye on the D path. It’s always an option. But IF she’s showing you with her actions and accountable behavior that she’s committing to the marriage AND if you want to R then keep that path open as well. Only remember you can’t control it as easily as the D one.

Despite what I’m saying I do feel there is a need for some direct actions without WW impact. Exposure to OMW is one, I also think HR/Manager should be aware. Exposure to those that can positively impact her behavior, STD testing, VAR and other tools to verify there is truth behind her actions and so on is all required.

On the MC issue.

I think MC is OK for now. Only realize its role. You are NOT going to MC to deal with the infidelity. You are there to deal with communications. That’s it. You should tell the MC that for now there is no way you can feel like the affair is over. There is no trust. You should also make it perfectly clear to the MC that there is NO WAY a single ounce of blame for her affair can be put on you or the marriage. It’s all hers. The main benefit of MC right now would be to open communications and to allow you and your WW a good place to hash out harder requirements you make. Not to compromise on them but rather to make them clearer to WW.

What is the precedent I am setting up by staying at my brother's? I hate all the legal bull crap.

ICO

You packing your suitcase and leaving is NOT GOING TO HELP YOU. And if you give her "space" right now, she is going to use that space to make an excuse for herself that you are leaving her so it is OK to continue her affair right where it left off. Now if you are OK with that, stay at your brothers and you are done.

She tells you YOU need time away and then calmly goes for a run. What she IS telling you she needs time to think about what she wants to do and if she can figure out a way to stay in contact with him. PLEASE STOP WORRYING ABOUT HER CRYING. She is crying because fantasyland is over one way or the other. If you stay together boyfriend may be gone. If you leave, she has married boyfriend in UK and loses her husband and family. Can you not see what she is really unhappy about.

With what she has done, calmly going out for a run and giving you are suggestion to give her and you space should have been the last thing. What she should have been doing is pleading with you to stay and talk and talk and talk some more on how you can fix this and WHAT SHE IS GOING TO DO , not you. Instead it is all about HER not being able to handle the rollar coaster that SHE climbed on and created.

If you want any chance to save your marriage ( and I am not sure that is possible) you need to move back in, tell her there is no space, and do everything you were going to do so you can make a decision based on knowledge and fact. And you are going to have to do some snooping to get facts so if you refuse to do that then just stay at your brothers and file for divorce or she will/

If you can just get back up here and dust yourself off, you will come out better in the end.

Every minute of space you give her right now is sealing the deal and who do you think she is now going to turn to in her time of emotional need. Yup. You guessed it. The guy she has been telling him she loves him for the past year.

IS THAT WHAT YOU REALLY WANT AND ARE ACCEPTING????

I am going to stay but we'll be giving each other space in the house.

Leaving the house is the worst thing you could do.

ico,

Here is a link that describes the dangers of leaving the house

http://dadsdivorce.com/articles/why-moving-out-could-be-a-costly-mistake-in-your-divorce/

Personally, I think that outside of this risk that removing yourself from the maelstrom of emotions of being together is an emotional benefit.

What you did, leaving, was a VERY hard thing and you WILL have some awful emotions for the next few days. Try not to dwell on those and instead really focus on what you want. It will not feel like it, but the absence will slowly be able to make you look at the situation a little more in a 3rd party light.

Your wife really needs to leave her job now. I know that you are looking out for your kids but I'm telling you as a survivor that you will not heal, the healing won't even start, until she is out of there. If she is serious about reconciliation, then she will be out of there tomorrow. This isn't a 2x4, this is just genuine advice. You can't start healing a cut until you pull the splinter all the way out.

I am glad you returned to the house.

Is the attorney meeting on for tomorrow ? What types of boundaries have you set while staing there ?

s it the beginning of the end ? If so, does it matter to you that she's still cheating ?

[This message edited by Western at 6:59 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

I already called her and told her that I as going back home tonight. I left this morning for work with a suitcase but I won't use it.

We may sleep in different rooms but at least I will always be there.

ico -

I know that you're devastated but can you go into how you are feeling right now? Like let's stop talking for a minute about what you should do and just shoot out a stream of consciousness vent/braindump/sermon about where you are.

While some of the advice here may sound uniformly harsh, believe it or not it's generally a product of the "feel" that we get from a person in a particular position. Go read spaceghost007's thread for the opposite to the 2x4s :)

While there are 7-8 things every betrayed spouse needs to do (no contact, 180, full transparency, legal counsel, emotional support network, exposure) there are a lot of soft suggestions that the unfortunate veterans here can help you flush out. We're just getting through your initial "must do" list - the more you can let people here know where you stand emotionally, the more people will be able to help you, people who have been in similar situations/mindsets can help you relate and a healthy feedback circle can be setup.

You're doing great. It may not feel like it, but you should be extremely proud of yourself. most people don't ask for help and if they do, choose to ignore it and take the easy path, which is usually the worst one.

That is a good move, but not having a clue to what she is doing regarding OM after she just told you she really was too bothered to deal wuth you not just letting her do what she wants will not help you slove the dilema.

So you sit at opposite ends of the house while she texts boyfriend??? How does that work for you or are you just supposed to believe her.

You can be in the house or out of the house but as far as having a clue what she is doing you will not know unless you stop being the morality police for yourself while the person who fucked you over has no cnnstraints.

Everything you demanded of her is out the window now because she can now use your even leaving as a reason to convince herself that it is over anyway so why try.

You went from where she was saying the right things and all you had to do was a lttle legwork to verify and keep her accountalbe to a point where OM looks like a better option now or she would not have told to to give her space.

So if hyou REALLY want to know what is in her head, you need that VAR in her car MORE THAN EVER RIGHT NOW.

If she has used this opportunity to call him doesn't that give you the truth that R cann ot happen. But you will never know if you sit at the other end of the house and cry with her.

And as long as you left the house I hope to hell you have not cancelled the attorney appointment to find out your rights so you do not do anything financially stupid.

So yesterday, I gave up. I won't lie. I figured that's it, game over.

I am still at my home. I never really left. I packed a suitcase and I was going to stay at my brother's for night.

I am not doing the VAR. It's illegal in my state.

I think I am mentally starting to prepare for a divorce.

I canceled my attorney meeting but I got it back. I really gave up last night. Stick a fork in me, I was done. I'm back now.

Hell man I still waffle like you're doing and I'm a year out. Don't get disheartened about yourself if you can't make up your mind what you want. That's pretty much normal.