SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm not posting this to be hurtful - I just want you to put it in perspective for your wife... According to your last post - she contacted him to say she misses their friendship - she jeopardized what's left of her marriage to reach out to AP to tell him she misses their "friendship". HARD 180

Master,

I have never met you. And yet, I hate what your wife has done to you. She puts you in a very painful situation. How can the person you love so much hurt you so much? It’s incomprehensible.

My (ex) WW cheated on me. I was her knight in shining armor. Yet she did this and (according to her), it was all my fault because I didn’t love her enough. This was before the internet, there was no SI. I did everything wrong for years... and I suffered for years.

If you want, you can read other threads on JFO. The Waywards... they do this to us. We love them, cherish them and they hurt us in the worst possible way. Waywards...all of them, are very selfish and they lie constantly.

When a new thread pop up, I will try to guide the newly betrayed so that they don’t suffer like I did. Some find their way very quickly, others don’t.

In your case, I would like you to realize this: A spouse should only root for his or her spouse. When you WW says she misses her AP, she is emotionally attached to him. She may be with you physically but her heart is with him. She is “forced” to stay with you for various reasons (in her mind), but her heart is not with you.

That means that you will stay with a woman in love with another man. It also means more suffering for you. I would rather you move to a path where you suffer less and eventually heal. You can’t make your WW do anything. You can’t ask her to stop loving some other guy, it won’t work. You know what? She is free to love another man.... but not as your wife.. That part you can control. You can control how you react to the situation.

When/if your WW starts hating the AP and is willing to do anything to heal you and repair the damage she has caused, then your path for healing is R with your WW. When your WW stays emotionally attached to her AP, then your path for healing is away from your WW.

Now it is time for you to find your way away from infidelity. You have suffered enough.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 7:27 PM, December 5th (Thursday)]

I hope this doesn't qualify as an "I told you so".

However, your wife's "I miss you baby" email to her affair partner coupled with their continued contact, not only at work, but on trips(!) should make it obvious that what everyone is telling you has been correct, at least in the greater sense.

The advice you have been resisting is correct too. Divorce papers, expose AP at work, VARs, phone monitoring services, Fonelab, timeline, polygraph.

These are your tried and true tools that smoke out lies and shut down liars and affairs.

Let me add another: private investigator!

If you don't take action, you are accepting this violation of your vows, and her actions will continue.

It's your life brother, take control of it!

[This message edited by faithfulman at 8:40 PM, December 5th (Thursday)]

Something else to think about.

Your wife and this POS, you know the same two people who were making plans to meet to "kiss" (yeah right), the same guy who says he "loves your wife", and your wife who says "she's ALWAYS been attracted to him" were just on a business trip STAYING AT THE SAME HOTEL.

I mean there's no way they'd hook up...right? (sarcasm).

How do you know they didn't hook up? Well your wife told you "they took separate uber's to the hotel but briefly talked at the airport ".

Hey Master, I imagine that your head is pretty much spinning and your heart is shattered. The chorus of advice, while all pretty much on target is not really what you want to hear. We know a lot because we've seen a lot.

I did not have SI to get advice from but I did have in real life friends who unbeknownst to me had been or were going thru similar situations. They knew us and cared about us but also told me some harsh truths.

Do you have any IRL friends to talk to, I bet they would agree with the SI hive. Don't be afraid to open up to your friends, when I told the strongest most confident guy I know, a friend since we were four about my situation he told me about his WW and divorce, how it brought him to his knees, but also how it will get better.

PS if she is actually telling you that she misses him and misses his friendship and laughing together. That not something you need to listen to, shake your head and leave the room, that BS is for her girlfriends to sympathize with.

Keep strong.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 8:33 PM, December 5th (Thursday)]

Masters2020,

I know you must be obsessing about this shit all the time, and probably find yourself falling into an abyss of despair. I think you need to do some reading to see what works, but especially what does not work.

I think the thread that may be most helpful is the one where a guy took the same type of approach you did.

He kept on asking his wife to stop meeting the affair partner, "getting mad", and telling her "how much she hurt him".

His name is "Bahama" and here is his thread: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=636008&AP=1

***

After you read that, look at other threads that are on the front page right now to see how other men who took action are stopping their wives from treating them like shit.

Check our Westway's thread: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=641443

Check out BSpheonix's thread: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=642505

Heck, there are a couple of new guys who have taken a stand:

sammy1996: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=642618

cdrca: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=642640

***

Compare and contrast and then decide how you should proceed.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 8:41 PM, December 5th (Thursday)]

I'm hesitant to post here because I get blasted with things I'm screwing up, not doing, etc. I understand it's from a place of experience, and I do appreciate the posts that are helpful. I honestly have no where else to turn.

Very sorry you feel that way. There is a reason you keep getting 2x4s, a very good reason. It’s not because we’re a bunch of mean, jaded people, we’re survivors, better yet, we are surviving. We’ve taken of bite out of the same shit sandwich...

You WANT constructive:

Cheaters lie. She can’t just say they took separate Uber’s, SHE HAS TO PROVE IT! Believe nothing she says and half of what you see.

If they work together, the A continues. And here they are on a work trip, AGAIN, hmmm... Look, you want to R. The lawyer you spoke to is protecting you in D, that is it, he told you to keep the job because in DIVORCE, you’ll have a better outcome. If she keeps the job the A continues and you are gonna end in D, no chance.

You have to be willing to lose the marriage to save. You being afraid to demand the phone demonstrates you are not.

If they communicate the A continues. She refuses to go NC.

She has to be transparent, given you ALL access; phone, email, social media... You had to sneak her phone.

She has to do the heavy lifting. You are doing ALL the work.

Your situation is not special, she is not special, there is very little about your situation that is unique, your WW had an A with her boss. Knock her off the pedestal you’ve put her on.

Is that constructive enough. Most of us are going to give you the hard truth, because we CARE. Look, I could probably find every point I made already posted in your thread, you’re getting these hard 2x4s because you refuse to see the light.

Finally: Epstein didn’t kill himself.

[This message edited by DeWittle at 9:04 PM, December 5th (Thursday)]

Masters,

Please try to take a few tangible steps tomorrow.:

1. Go out to Best Buy and buy two VARS with cash - one for her car. One for an area in the house where she typically talks on her cell phone (like master bath when she’s putting on makeup). Usually there’s a nearby Walmart -

Buy some industrial Velcro strips, a cheap pair of wired headphones and some black tape. This will take all of 30 minutes. Put these in your briefcase or somewhere really secure. Get them ready.

2. Call two local polygraph examiners, get prices and talk about how the process works for their infidelity service — and how soon you can get in their calendar - this will take less than 30 minutes. They’ll be friendly and helpful. They see this all the time.

3. Find the nearest clinic for STD testing and make an appointment for yourself for the next couple of days. This will take less than 15 minutes. This will give you peace of mind that you’re disease free - then you can stay celibate from your wife so you don’t catch anything.

4. Order a copy of How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair off Amazon. For now, this is for you to read. Your wife isn’t remorseful so the content will be practically meaningless to her right now. This will take less than 5 minutes.

All told you can do all of this tomorrow in less than an hour.

Just do these four things. Can you do that?

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:26 PM, December 5th (Thursday)]

Masters, just so you understand a little bit more about the folks who are on this thread trying to help you:

Tonight I’m talking in my own thread in the reconciliation section about the struggles I have being triggered every time I have to see my wife’s AP. The code red blind rage is off the charts. It’s awful. I’m having a glass of bourbon right now to calm down (not more than one glass).

I just saw my WW’s AP tonight at a school function for my youngest child. So I’m talking about that tonight and at the same time I’m developing a plausible to do list you can carry out tomorrow.

All that’s to say this shit is really real. This is bring you to your knees stuff. This is probably not your first big life test of this magnitude but trust me it’s one of the very toughest you will ever face.

I really want you to get clear of this as quickly as you can and not be twisting around in limbo for years. You’ll still be in pain but right now you are setting yourself for a level of pain and self torture that is completely unnecessary.

Masters2020:

Sorry you are going through this. My opinion is that your wife in not in love with you anymore. Loving /caring for someone and being In-Love are two very different things. I'm sure she loves and cares for you because you are the father of her children and your long history together. Just going by the way she is acting and the things she is saying I believe this may be the case.

Examples : She's not sure she can get back to being happy with you. She's not sure she wants to put in the work because she doesn't think you will ever get back what you had. After all that's happened she contacts AP to say how much she misses him. She's not the same person different person.

Weather the affair went beyond kissing is important to know when trying to R. It becomes less important if you realize your wife no longer loves you. The physical part of an affair is hard to overcome but this seems so much worse because it appears to be very emotional also.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it may be possible R after a physical affair but I'm just not sure how R can be successful if she is no longer even In-love with you.

Maybe this is something you and you wife need to sit and figure out before anything else. If she admitts she is indeed still in love with you, then maybe you put in the work try to R. If you determine she is no longer loves you, well you have to ask yourself if anything else even matters.

I'm sorry I didn't articulate better but I think you get what I'm trying to say. I hope things work out for you, good luck.

[This message edited by Browsing41 at 6:57 AM, December 6th (Friday)]

Good morning Masters.

Something I wanted to pass along to you that I heard TD Jakes talk about years back. He said "you can't change what you are unwilling to confront".

This doesn't mean that the outcome you desire will happen, but it does mean the first step in the process is to get real with yourself about your situation.

It's like I said in my post yesterday it takes enormous courage to face the reality of what you're up against, but until you do you'll continue to have your mind/thoughts bound by chains and living in a world of denial.

Once you've accepted the reality of the situation, then instead of throwing a pity party for yourself crying out "why me" you have to DIG DOWN DEEP and be willing to take the next step to confront the trial you find yourself in.

You've been sucker punched by the one person you never thought would do this to you (and your kids).

You're laying on the canvas, hurting, shaken, wanting to stay down but just like "Rocky" did you pick yourself up and get back in the fight. It's not about getting knocked down because we all get knocked down in life. IT'S WHAT YOU DO AFTER YOU GET KNOCKED DOWN THAT MATTERS!!

If you truly want to try to change your situation, look in the mirror and be honest with the reflection staring back at you. Quit lying to yourself and say to that reflection here's the reality of where I'm at. It sucks but I REFUSE to stay in denial anymore.

"Let's go confront this head on as I'm not going to be chained by denial nor fear ANYMORE"!!

Who knows where it's going to take you but trust me it's going to be WAY better than where your mind has been since you found yourself in this nightmare.

So it's basically making a choice.

Everything starts with a choice.

Be honest with yourself about what's going on.

Your wife has been in a physical relationship with this man (not just kissing but sex).

Now make the choice to confront it.

The next step is to take ACTION to try to change things.

REAL ACTION....like her taking a polygraph and you drawing a line in the sand with firm boundaries and consequences.

Like getting a lawyer and going after this POS and his company!!

It may wind up taking you to the place you've feared winding up (divorced) but it could also lead you to a path of reconciliation with your wife.

Either destination will be WAY BETTER THAN WHERE YOU'RE CURRENTLY LIVING and everyone here on SI who's not just experienced infidelity but also got through it will testify to this!!!

As Red said in the movie "Shawshank Redemption":

"get busy living or get busy dying"!!

Edited: adding text

[This message edited by Booyah at 7:54 AM, December 6th (Friday)]

I'm sorry, your marriage is destroyed and your wife is not the girl you married. She's now enjoying both the safety of a marriage and an affair with the VP.

I believe somewhere in your posts she admitted he basically swept her off her feet the first time they met. Right from the start, he's was/is a new face and presence that you as a 'husband' can't compete with. Especially while she's working with him.

You exposed to his wife - so now they are getting better at lying and covering it up. The evidence she's showing you has been 'staged' to create the impression it's over.

You can't control your wife but you can control what you do next.

You can stop this anytime by reporting them to HR.

This is a predatory VP that's abusing his power.

Will it blow up her career? Doubtful since he's a VP (there's an assumption that she couldn't say no and was coerced into playing his game by virtue of his position).

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 8:05 AM, December 6th (Friday)]

You're scared. That's why you won't do a poly, or get a var. That's why you won't insist she quit her job. Fear.

You would rather blanket yourself denial, than find the truth.

That's nothing to be ashamed of. Many,many,many of us were right where you are. We know how good it feels to pretend we know our spouse better, that strangers don't know what they're talking about. To pretend we can trust.

We also found out what the consequences of living in denial,and fear, are in the end.

The affair isn't over. You can pretend all you want. But,deep down, you know it's true. You know they had sex. But if you can pretend otherwise, maybe it won't shatter your soul.

The thing is, pretending and living in fear,and denial, will cause more pain down the road. Like, when you discover there has been a lot of sex, and that while you were crying, your wife was still in the affair. Having a WS take their affair underground after dday is more painful that the first dday. Because, at that point, they know how much pain you're in, but they clearly don't care.

A second dday is where you are headed. You must take control. Now. Today. You must take steps to protect yourself. Stop allowing this woman to betray you AND your children.

Stop letting fear dictate yoir life.

Being strong,and standing up to her,may just get you the wife you love, back. Otherwise, continue as you are, and you will continue to have a "wife," who is cheating, disrespecting you at every turn, lying constantly, and your kids will continue to have a shitty mother.

Don't all of you deserve better?

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:21 AM, December 6th (Friday)]

Masters have you given some thought to doing those four small steps today that I recommended?

I know this is hard and you feel overwhelmed. The crazy thing is you’re not as overwhelmed as you’re telling yourself you are. I know this because I’ve been in your shoes.

Just take those four small steps today. Can you do that? You could achieve almost everything in less than 2 hours — maybe even less than an hour.

If you take these four small steps I’m willing to bet you will start to feel more in control and less feeling overwhelmed — at least a little bit.

Let us know what you think — and whether you’ve taken these small tangible steps.

Masters have you given some thought to doing those four small steps today that I recommended?

I know this is hard and you feel overwhelmed. The crazy thing is you’re not as overwhelmed as you’re telling yourself you are. I know this because I’ve been in your shoes.

Just take those four small steps today. Can you do that? You could achieve almost everything in less than 2 hours — maybe even less than an hour.

If you take these four small steps I’m willing to bet you will start to feel more in control and less feeling overwhelmed — at least a little bit.

Let us know what you think — and whether you’ve taken these small tangible steps.

Masters your to do list for tomorrow:

1. Pay for and download Fonelab online. You don’t have to even deal with the issue of demanding your wife’s phone. Just pay for and download Fonelab. That’s it.

2. Read and highlight the kindle version of How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. This should take no more than 2-3 hours.

3. Implement first steps of the 180 with your wife. Several of the next steps will move you in this direction.

4. Look up stoppani’s size program and watch the videos. All of them about the lifting protocol and the diet requirements.

4a. Go to the gym and lift weights for 2 hours. If you can think about starting stoppani’s size program and do the first day of that either Saturday or Sunday. If you are able do the 2nd day of the program this weekend as well. This will jumpstart you, your testosterone levels will spike and your muscles on Monday and Tuesday will look and feel incredible, like you’ve never felt before. Start committing to a lifting program 4 days a week.

5. Start reading about clean eating meal prep this weekend and then use Sunday to cook up a bunch of chicken breasts, roasted broccoli and rice for the week. Meal prep will keep your diet healthy and keep your body from feeling worse. And it will help with the protein requirements of stoppani’s program.

6. Set up at least one VAR that you purchased so that it can record enough for several days, put the black tape on the display, and the clipped headphones in and affix Velcro strip. Find a time to secure this in your wife’s car without your knowledge. Far under the drivers side dash is good. Under the seat is usually too much road noise. You’re smart and you can do this.

7. Take your kids on an excursion somewhere - just you and not your wife. Take them to frozen 2. If your wife asks to go, say “I’m taking the kids for some daddy time. I really want to spend time with them myself.” If she insists on going, then shrug, let her and don’t sit by her. Engage as little as possible. Then find another daddy excursion later in the weekend and do it without her.

8. Start listening to some comedy albums with your headphones on. I recommend Louis CK - especially since he was caught up in the #metoo movement (I’m not trying to be intentionally offensive here but it would be a good psych out game for your wife if she’s unsympathetic to Louis CK - it would be a great ZFG moment for you and that’s really important right now). You won’t be able to help yourself from laughing. Your wife will want to know why’. “eh just listening to a funny comedy album. Hey I’m gonna tuna couple of errands, see you in a bit.”

See how this works?

That’s the 180, friend.

Reminder on today’s four small steps:

1. Purchase at least two VARs with cash. Also get black tape, headphones and Velcro.

2. Call 2 polygraph examiners to get price, process and availability.

3. Locate STD clinic and make an appointment for yourself.

4. Order a copy of How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair for your wife. Get the kindle version so you can read it yourself this weekend.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:59 AM, December 6th (Friday)]

Masters check in on Monday and let us know if you did the four small steps today and at least tried to do most of the weekend to do list I outlined. We want to help. You asked for constructive advice, and I just gave you a series of small steps you can take to take back your life. YOUR life. For your kids, man. Do it please.

Masters

I know nothing about this is simple, but if I were in your shoes, I’d simply tell her:

“I’m not interested in sharing a life with someone who misses an emotional connection to another man. So until you can prove to me that you don’t we have nothing more to discuss. “

And then move on to separate. As I and others said about her attitude, you have nothing to work with right now. You actually shouldn’t even start the work until she has done most of hers already.

I have sent you a private message here on SI with some information. Let me know if you can’t find it from your profile page.

Good luck.

I agree with stevesn. Good advice and cuts clean thru all the BS.

If that’s the case disregard Fonelab, VAR and other investigative type steps.

If you separate and she comes back begging you can decide whether you want to R and that’s when the polygraph, written timeline etc would kick in.

For your own safety, please do get checked for STDs. That’s not one to skip.

For your own sanity, do begin implementing the 180 steps. The list I gave you are good ideas but you may have your own.

The Stoppani program is a sure fire way to get past some of the feelings of being frozen and feeling inadequate, clear your head and improve your physique drastically (a huge self confidence booster) but YMMV.

And please for the love of God, do not let this predator off the hook. He should not be the VP of HR anywhere. If you let him off, you are willfully countenancing other innocent spouses being given the pain you are experiencing.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:55 AM, December 6th (Friday)]

Masters,

Please take a step back and look at this. WW goes on another trip that the POS VP is going on too. They briefly talk at the airport and say gosh, it’s to bad we can’t talk, laugh like we used to and be good friends any more. Then they take separate ubers to the same hotel and don’t talk or see each other until WW texts POS VP in the middle of the night saying she misses him.

Here’s what’s happened. The A has gone underground, but WW slipped up and left ONE text on her phone. You blow up and she gives you an explanation a third grader wouldn’t buy. Masters, you’ve drank the Kool-Aid. You can bet WW will learn from this and just go further underground with the A. She won’t make the mistake of leaving a text on her phone again.

Now, let’s talk about the “Timeline”. So she writes it. What do you plan to do with it? It’s got to be more than “Thanks hon, I feel better now”.

As others have said, you’ve already lost her and the marriage – she’s in love with the POS VP and he’s in love with her. The best chance you have to get her back and build a new marriage is to out the POS VP to the CEO. If you don’t, there will be more trips where they’re having great sex in the hotel while you’re a convenient built in baby sitter. Are you willing to live with that?