SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

For those criticizing Stayed, I reject your definition. If a wife chooses to be a slut for others, she should be a slut for her husband, too. Again, at least my XWW was never a hypocrite in that department.

SouthernMama5

I would ask at night and complain but go to bed frustrated. It was still frequent. I could not complain. She didn't feel she had choice. That she wasn't given the opportunity to choose.

A lot of the emotional isolation was work related. Lack of money and young kids affected date nights although I could have made more of an effort. It was more neglect and I was tired. My family feels I didn't do that well. I should have made more of an effort to take my W out.

I don't discount her feelings. I could have done it differently.. better.

It doesn't justify affairs. She says that. But she is begging me to understand my part and I want to do my best. I wondered if this information would change the understanding of my situation or not.

I am hoping she is doing her best now. It seems that way. But again, I can't drag this into another relationship.

My XWW blames my complete emotional unavailability for her decision to cheat. I think there is validity in that position. I starved her of love and affection. What should I have expected long-term? I own that; just as she should own her decision to cheat (although she does not). Your emotional neglect does not absolve her immorality. You each need to "own your shit" if you hope to heal one another. What I am saying is that don't let her blame you--she must own her sins--but you can show her some understanding and try to meet her needs going forward.

Thanks PlanC.

With multiple ddays as well I am thankful for your opinion and cautious hope for me and my wife.

I had written a long post, Catch44, but deleted and went with my succinct:

I don't like it and I don't perform on command.

The thing is, it sounds as though you could have been a clone of my FWH MisterSister, Catch44. He was very much like Aubrie's husband, too. I never caught him sexually molesting me whilst I slept, but maybe he did, I sleep hard. He was a fucking angry, raging lunatic. It got to the point that my FWH had to beg me for sex. Which is crazy because I really enjoy sex, but I don't enjoy emotional and verbal abuse. If he stopped his abuse for a week he couldn't understand why I wasn't fucking his brains out. "Hey, I changed bitch!" Emotionally unavailable to me, couldn't nurture me. He felt nurtured getting fucked and fed. I needed a little more.

Funny, he is the one who had the affair. He felt like he was the aggrieved spouse. What came first, his abuse or my sexual withdrawal? Pointless to try to pin that one down because we decided that we would both like to be happy rather than "right".

One of our very first MC visits the MC asked my FWH what he was so angry about. And he was stopped cold. He really had no idea why he was so angry and why he took it out on me. And the anger left him that day, in that session. His father was a very angry unhappy man, maybe that was how my FWH thought he should be? That the only way he had to express his hurt and pain was through anger? Whatever the reason he realized his anger wasn't working for him and was, in fact, sabotaging what he wanted. He decided to work on ways to communicate his feelings to me. He says he was "emotionally retarded".

Because one is a BS does not give us license to treat others as sex slaves. To humiliate and debase another human is just unacceptable. It is emotionally, mentally abusive. That so many WS's, especially WW's, accept being treated this way, feeling like they deserve it, just breaks my fucking heart. And, I frankly lose respect for the BH who treats his WW in this manner. I respect that you realize this is an issue for you, Catch44, and you want to change this behaviour. I have a ton of respect for that and for you for seeing this for the unacceptable behaviour it is.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 10:08 PM, May 19th (Friday)]

If a wife chooses to be a slut for others, she should be a slut for her husband, too

Man, Catch, I hope you're not taking this utter bullshit to heart. Nobody OWES anyone sex. Ever. I don't care if you're married or not. You work to meet EACH OTHER's needs or you get out of the relationship.

.

Bravo, SisterMilkshake. Well said.

Not every BH is a fucking whimpering doormat. If my wife fucks another man in a parking lot, she can fuck me in a parking lot too. I have to be married to a whore that would betray her husband and children for seemingly stupid fucking reasons. I will treat her like a whore. There is no "rape", I'm not forcing her to do anything either. She's free to GTFO anytime she wants. She has a choice. I'm sure it bothers her. It bothers me to be married to a slut. Ain't infidelity fun...

SisterMilkshake,

Thank you for your response. I'm not sure. I think anger could be it. FOO type stuff. Something to ponder. I think a lot about the why. I can't figure it out. I was trying to change my behavior a little bit at a time so over time it would be a big change.

I'm going to think about anger.

I would like my wife to choose loving me, I am encouraged that you feel i can be changed. I would appreciate any other ideas you might come up with.

13YearsR,

I want a fuller relationship. I want my wife to choose loving me because she loves me. Not fear. I want a relationship that affairs don't have or represent.

I appreciated that PlanC felt that my marriage could still heal if both my wife and I put in the work.

stayedforthekids,

I am hearing you. I know the pain.

I am sorry you are feeling all of the big feelings. I wish you the best while this huge wave has you feeling like you are dying.

I appreciated that PlanC felt that my marriage could still heal if both my wife and I put in the work.

Where are you seeing that from Plan C, because I don't see anything about putting in work? I just "see she fucked him so she can damn well fuck me" type stuff.

There's a lot of pain on this thread. Stayed, I get where you're coming from (rage and hurt) but if you want to R with your wife, that stance will not work. You don't "have" to be married to her. Peace.

You each need to "own your shit" if you hope to heal one another. What I am saying is that don't let her blame you--she must own her sins--but you can show her some understanding and try to meet her needs going forward.

^This^

Ok, wow, this thread is hard for me in many respects. I'll provide my take and hopefully it helps.

I've read the whole thread, and I'm still not 100% sure what you mean by "on demand sex." Can you give us an example or two, in your own words?

For me, I felt pressured to have sex for most of my marriage. Our drives weren't mismatched; our emotional needs were. I felt emotionally unfulfilled and shut down over time.

My WS never called me names. He just wouldn't speak to me. For days. Or even worse, he would stroll right by me, not look at me, with an angry countenance, then smilingly greet one of our kids. Do you have any idea how hard that was for someone whose love language is quality time? I was dying inside.

I lived with what I mentally referred to as the Anger Fire Hydrant, seething in my living room, waiting to go off. My transgression? I'd said no to sex the night before. Why? Who knows. Sometimes I was exhausted. I'm the primary income earner, and guess what? I was also the primary parent with our kids. Other times it was timing. Female hormones can be a mercurial thing that even we don't fully understand.

A typical scenario for us was that I'd wake up really early, do most of the work to get the kids ready (we have three), we'd both help drop them off at school or daycare; we'd both work; I would pick the kids up, make them dinner, baths, homework, read to them, then bed. My WH would do the dishes and fall asleep on the couch while I did the above. Then I would crawl into bed at 10, wanting to crash; he'd be wide awake and eagerly follow me to bed, ready and raring to go.

Yes, he was (and is) very willing to also take care of my base physical needs. But foreplay? Nope, what's that? Kissing? Who the hell needs that. Let's just go straight to the goods. I felt like I had two body parts (three, if you consider each of the girls a unique object). But why is she complaining, she got off, didn't she? Yes, if you count half a step above taking care of it myself.

I wouldn't always tell him I was exhausted, but he knew for years (after telling him many many times) that I was a morning or day gal. But nope. He was a night time guy, so with the night came the pressure. I'd be half asleep, he'd start pawing, I'd feel guilty some nights and give in; other nights I'd say no. And when I did say no? Oh boy did I ever pay. For days. Please refer to "seething anger fire hydrant" above. And who the hell wants to be intimate with an angry person? How Not To Get Your Wife In The Mood (by HPV, on Amazon, see $1 kindle section).

Was this "sex on demand"? Who knows, I'm still not sure. But I will tell you how "sex under pressure" feels. I felt used. I felt unappreciated and unimportant. I felt lonely. I felt all my passion was unwanted: who needs quality when quantity is clearly so much more important? So I stopped trying to be passionate during sex. I gave up.

Guess what, guys? Oftentimes for women, once the emotional needs are met, the sex follows naturally. We learned that valuable gem in MC, and it seriously worked for us. Post Dday, he's tried hard to stop stonewalling and the angry silent treatment; he started being much more considerate of my feelings and emotional needs, and guess what? My husband was floored. He had no idea how passionate and great sex could be. Both the quantity and quality skyrocketed. We're both very happy with it now.

To those of you guys who feel angry and entitled: Good luck with that. Hang onto that anger. Pressure away at your spouse. But you have NO IDEA what you may be missing.

Sorry, Catch. Missed that one.

Standing ovation for HPV50.

Didn't read the whole thread, but I want to give you my perspective on the original question.

After the HB was over, I had a really hard time with sex. I just didn't want him to touch me. But I tried to do it anyway. Then, one time, as I was under him, I realized that it felt exactly like the time in college when I had a party, passed out drunk on my couch, and woke up to some guy sweating on top of me. I was horrified. Didn't know what to do. So I actually a faked an organ to 'help him finish'. I just wanted it to stop, and that seemed like the most prudent thing to do.

So yeah, when sex with your husband feels exactly like a rape, it's a little hard to deal with.

Catch44; I just want to say the almost all of the women's responses have been from BW's NOT WW's. These women have a very defensive attitude because their on demand sex was when they were innocent. Which I think is TOTALLY different from your situation.

You might want to ask on the BS asks WS questions section. Find out how the women who have actively cheated on their husbands. There may or may not be a different approach from women who feel guilty for what they did.

Don't know if that is true but would give an interesting comparison. I mean the women currently giving opinions are NOT the ones giving it up to another man in parking lots or even "on call".

I mean I would be horribly upset if I was to demand sex from a woman who had never wronged me in that way but a "wayward wife", who did the hurting of you, would necessarily have a different perspective.

I also get the "she didn't care how much she hurt me so why should I care about her feelings" concept.

I'm not saying that this could go on forever but how about say, as long as the affair was. Would that be an acceptable time? I mean she didn't give a sh%t about how much she hurt you while in the affair did she?

I mean if you steal they want you to give back the money don't they? I mean even after you go to jail they still want reparations don't they? So you get "on demand sex" until you've gotten your fair share of "on demand booty calls" I mean she did it for him right?

That said there is nothing "fair" about ANY of this.

OK Ladies fell free to bash now.

I won't speak to the sex part of it, but I do want to bring up the name calling piece of it. We all went through grade school. We've all probably been called worse things. If you're not using it as an open daily insult, and it's an every once in a while thing, I don't see how that can truly degrade a relationship.

No one is perfect, and I've heard women call each other things far far worse. Heck, on episode of real housewives of wherever could illustrate that.

But for someone to say that being called a bad name is a show stopper, I find that ridiculous.

Especially if it's like from 3 years ago or some shit like that. That's either melodrama or a straw man argument.

That being said, I'm reference normal use. If someone were to insult me on a daily or weekly basis, I'd assume it to be fighting words.

As far as the sex side of this conversation, I'm learning just as much as I can.

Oh boy...let me tell you about what I go through.

My husband is impotent....though he can't admit that to himself. We have not had real intercourse for about 4 years now. And when he tries it's really him dry humping me even if he can't get it up. I'd actually just like him to GET OFF OF ME.

Can you really demand sex? Uh..not really. Your wife is giving you a mercy fuck so she can just get to sleep or go on with what she was doing. Yup. That is what I do for my husband. I hate it. I hate him when he does it. He doesn't care about what I want or don't want. It is totally about him and his need to think he can still have sex. I can tell him no a thousand times and by 11 pm. I'm like "whatever...just hurry up". My husband is totally insecure and his constant pestering is his way of testing. His test is "if you really love me you will do it". It's been 25 years and I am tired of the tests!!!!!!!!

So that is the comment from a woman that you asked for.

[This message edited by whoknows at 10:10 AM, May 20th (Saturday)]

hpv50,

At night I would ask if she wanted to do it, or she would ask me knowing that I would probably like to do it. If she wanted it could be quick or I preferred something involved. She sad after the A. You sometimes take too long. I thought I was trying to fulfil her needs.

For me, I felt pressured to have sex for most of my marriage. Our drives weren't mismatched; our emotional needs were. I felt emotionally unfulfilled and shut down over time.

This is similar to our situation.

I wouldn't avoid speaking with my wife, but for long periods I didn't turn of work. I should have. I didn't need to focus on work and should have balanced with more family stuff.

Was this "sex on demand"? Who knows, I'm still not sure. But I will tell you how "sex under pressure" feels. I felt used. I felt unappreciated and unimportant. I felt lonely. I felt all my passion was unwanted: who needs quality when quantity is clearly so much more important? So I stopped trying to be passionate during sex. I gave up.

^This^ happened. She yelled at me one time after DDay1, "I finally found someone I wanted to have sex with". She feels bad about it now.

It is strange because last year I was doing almost 60% of stuff around the house plus working extra hour and taking the kids around. Did a trip to Vegas (while AP#4 was happening). She still has resentment. She is in IC, I just wonder how long that will last still.

*my divorce talk

basically we are leaning over the line of divorce and neither of us wants it. So that probably solves that problem. Plus mindfulness

*pressure/demand sex

we had been doing better, I thought. But my W still had unresolved resentment. I need to continue IC and figure out my whys. Anger seems secondary after the fact if "expectations" aren't met (common theme in other areas for me). Expectations could sometimes equal control/winning. There are FOO issues with control. I am concerned that my "partnership" with my wife didn't recognize "full partnership". I had skewed expectations and obligations of marriage. FOO. I work my ass off and my W had a pretty good life SAHM until the new business started. I felt I was providing. She was willing to tolerate the behaviour as long as the lifestyle was maintained. Which is maybe why I didn't see us as equals? But that is her issues potentially and I need to refocus on mine. Or that is a skewed way of thinking and it is still my problem.

redfury

So yeah, when sex with your husband feels exactly like a rape, it's a little hard to deal with.

She has said that it felt like rape. I have a hard time with this because I didn't "force" her, and I really get my back up. It was more manipulation or coercion with pouting/frustration. 2 year old stuff. But that is how she says it made her feel. It took away her choice, the ability to choose. So I want to get into the trenches and feel it and stop justifying.