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I would urge everyone to google the term sexual coercion.

I don't want to jack this thread but before making blanket statements about is rape/not rape we need to be educated.

It is a disservice to ANY victim to devalue their experience because it does not fit in our uneducated view.

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 8:47 AM, May 21st (Sunday)]

Peachy, prissy, you make valid points and I would edit my post to remove that piece if it wasn't against guidelines.

Still would appreciate response to the other questions I asked.

Catch44,

I want to commend you for acknowledging you were wrong.

That doesnt give your wife the free pass to cheat. It gives you the opportunity to grow and become a better person.

You hv the opportunity to explore the feelings you had, actions you took and DO better.

That my friend is a gift...to your wife and you. Good luck

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 9:01 AM, May 21st (Sunday)]

But here was the problem, I believe. My wife was a control freak and needed everything in order. She stressed herself out. She made herself unhappy. She would not relax until everything is done, which was never. Everything needed to be done now. And the more we accomplish around the house, the more she wanted done. The ginger bread house, the kids, the social life, it was all her facade, and her facade was never good enough. She was a black hole.

I think the difference now that we both recognize this pattern. She still gives duty sex but not as often, and I don't get angry or belittle when I don't get it. We talk about it.

see that? yeah = misunderstanding means we talk about the problem and solve the problem together

prissy with all due respect sexual coercion goes both ways for the WW that uses a "no" to her husband and then goes off and fucks strangers ... and the concern I bring to the OP is that if his WW is in any way shape or form trying to shift the burden to his shoulders for her crappy inability to TALK TO HIM in a mature way about her needs than, no, he is not sexually coercive if he is just like I imagine a normal married guy, he is frustrated

frustration is a two-way street peeps and infidelity is not the healthy way to deal with frustration and misunderstanding his needs/her needs

the reason we got married was to compromise IMO a bit of autonomy for the fact that the synergy was better and in a mutually respectful relationship there is no longer MINE MINE MINE ALL ALONE MINE view because we connect to our spouse

I am not saying don't say "no" I am saying when balancing differing drives just consider compromise in a healthy way 'cause geesh he is as human as I am is all

just my two cents and hopefully we each own our side in order for the goal to be a win/win

Peachy, prissy, you make valid points and I would edit my post to remove that piece if it wasn't against guidelines.

Editing a post is not against the guidelines.

Editing no. Removing contents yes.

Perhaps you should go back and read it?

No, but I will add that the idea that if I applied too much pressure trying to get my wife to have sex she could decide she was being coerced and I would be committing a crime. It sounds like a really subjective line. Part of me fears that it so much I think it would be better to let her do all the initiating more avoid potential jail time.

Well, ya know.....I doubt that many women (BS or WW) charge their husbands with a crime.

From what I've seen, they simply leave.

If you've had a different experience, I'm sorry.

I actually signed up to comment on the "rape" remarks on this thread. Sex, when your married but don't feel like is not rape; it's not even close people. I do see that another poster who's a rape victim responded and does see them similar, but, that does not in any way mirror my experience. I've had a lot of "coerced" sex in my life. Sex when I really didn't feel like. Sex when I was so drunk that I really didn't care who it was (and nearly puked in the morning when I woke up). Sex with my wife when she wants it and I don't.

None of that is rape. Not even close. Rape is a violent crime; it's not an "I'm horny" crime, it's not a "well, let's see if she stops me from taking off the underwear" crime. It's violent. Ask men who've been to prison what rape looks like, I'm sure they'll let you know. It's not a drunken tryst, and it's absolutely not your husband/wife nagging you for sex until you "give in". It's where you wake up in the ER missing a few teeth and with stitches in unmentionable places. It's when you can't walk for a month because of the damage done. It's where you physically overpowered by someone even though you beg them to stop.

Perhaps there should be another crime for "duty sex" in a marriage. I'm sure my wife would convict me of that crime, as I would her. But calling it rape? That makes about as much sense as charging someone with attempted murder for shooting a spitball at you.

Yes, you absolutely can be raped by your husband/wife. But nagging you for sex, or duty sex, "I feel guilty so I do it" or even "He used his position in the marriage to get it"? That's not rape, at least not in my book.

PlanC,

But in my case, I think my wife would meet my needs fine.

To everyone,

Let me vent.

I thought we had been establishing a mutually acceptable situation.

The latest DDay threw me off of that and I reverted to demands and divorce talk one night leading to actually talking to lawyers. I have been triggering hugely for the last 3 weeks and anger hit.Havent slept a full night in 3 months even with sleeping pills. There is some trauma. I need to temper my anger with this history of ODS but there is still anger and fear.

Sex is a way to feel close. I am angry that we had what I thought was something workable but then she found AP#4 and had another rendezvous with AP#3. Today is a confusing day and I am just ranting a bit.

I want to feel close to my wife. I would like a hug or my hand held. Something. She is scared and mad considering the last two weeks of fighting and lawyer talk. So even that is on demand thinking. But I want to feel close. I have done the opposite. Sitting in that today is shitty. But the affairs screw with my mind, my safety, with my self worth, with how I feel my wife views me. I feel needy because of it.

Where is the balance?

[This message edited by Catch44 at 11:38 AM, May 21st (Sunday)]

rs for her crappy inability to TALK TO HIM in a mature way about her need

Thanks Merida. ^This^ is what I don't get.

She never sought counselling. We didn't discuss it so I didn't think it was SO big. And then I get hit with DDay #1.

I can understand how come she felt that way and I can look at the emotional neglect. I opened the door, but she took the steps.

I don't know what mutual healing should look like. Today is a day I am very mentally tired. The damage over the last 2 weeks is huge. I can't expect her to feel all warm and fuzzy. But I crave closeness today.

[This message edited by Catch44 at 11:34 AM, May 21st (Sunday)]

In my experience, this emotion and neediness is where codependency comes into play, Catch44. You must heal that need. Pretend she never gets it and you have to D? Then what? How will you survive?

She is not deserving of your love with all she has done, and yet you are craving validation from her. That is not healthy. YOU need to validate and comfort YOU. She cannot be trusted. You need to be able to find peace alone, separate from a relationship. Only then can you have balance in a relationship. She knows she has all the power because you need the marriage. Not good.

When men are very codependent and needy for the woman that is hurting them, they become full of resentment and violence can creep in. These can be dangerous times. You cannot control her!!! You cannot yell, hit, insult, name call, or punish her to get her in line. You must be willing to lose the M to save it, and if she feels you are not willing to leave, she will take advantage. She is angry with divorce talk? Good! That means she is feeling the boundary, and she knows she is going to need to look at herself and why she cannot respect your boundary. This is how change occurs in a WW, if it is ever going to occur.

You must figure out why you cannot comfort yourself. Needing someone who hurts you is very unhealthy. Please work on you.

13YearsR,

Focus on building a healthy new dynamic

..

Thanks I need to do this today.

Just ordered the new codependancy book

When was your last d-day, Catch44 and when was the last time your WW was with an AP?

I don't think anyone here is saying to "rape" your spouse, as in hold them down and forcibly take them.

I think it's a matter of meeting each other's needs as some others have said. Name calling is harmful yes,

And keeping your anger under control can be tough. Lately I don't even know who I am. One min I crave the closeness and love as catch says, one min I would rather smother him than look at him, one min I feel like it's all my fault and there's something I didn't do right to cause him to go outside our marriage, one min I want to slit both my wrist, on rare occasions I'm just ok. It's such a horrible, emotional roller coaster we are all on! But reading some of these post has been a big trigger for me today. Why would you stay married to someone you don't want to touch you? If you aren't physically attracted to your spouse and don't desire them, but do someone else, why be with your spouse? That's just torture for both of you. For those of you who withhold sex from your spouse, maybe if you could just touch us and feel the absolute devastation that your rejection brings to our soul, you wouldn't be so quick to turn away. Sex is meant to be an emotional bonding, the absolute closest you can be to one another. And being rejected by the one you love and chose to spend your LIFE with is life shattering. No of course you aren't going to want to have sex w your spouse right after they are calling you names etc. chicken and the egg scenario. I think you have to work together and find each other's needs. Try to meet those needs because if you don't thinks go off rail and they or you start to look for someone or something else to meet that need. You wouldn't continue to go to work every day if your boss stopped paying you. We are not in R Yet. I don't know if we will do that or not. I am in limbo right now. But I can say from walking the other side of the fence it is so hard to feel rejected and unwanted by your spouse and then them freely give that to someone else. Catch, I am impressed by your want to do your side of the work given your situation. I don't know if I could do it. I'm impressed a lot of you who have been able to move on and try to recover honestly. Maybe

Just go to her, hug her, and tell her what you told us. You just want to feel close to her for a moment. Sometimes that's the one thing that does make me feel a little better, those moments where we feel close and I forget for a min.

Rideout...

Your description of rape is uneducated at best....amd offensive at worst.

Since you want to speak about offenders...

Speak to victims as well.

Again...education. Not pulling "definitions" out of sky because they sound right.

I originally wanted to respond to the OP and I will secondarily. I must address, again, the rape comments. In MY experience, my husband pinned me to the bed and had sex with me and finished despite my begging him to stop. I'm sorry you don't feel that was rape because he didn't punch me in the face, or have a weapon. It sure felt like rape to me. You know it's funny I was raped and molested for ten years as a child and I could have sworn it was like the same experience. I'm so glad we have experts who know what rape really. Phew. </sarcasm> With my ex, it was actually about power and control. For anyone who has been raped and not dealt with it or reported it I say this. It doesn't matter how you were dressed, if you were drunk, or if you withdrew consent after physical activity had started. You have that right and you are not to blame. Please ignore people who for whatever reason don't know any better. It's probably best to talk to experts and survivors who understand your trauma.

Dear OP,

Your marriage is savable but it's going to take work and time. There is little to no trust on either side (understandably) and that is some hard work right there. Fortunately there is a TON of free information out there for you to utilize. Please check out Ross Rosenberg on you tube. He's like an expert on codependency. Talk about empowering. I too have struggled with that (hence staying 25 years in an abusive marriage....) I will never give up who I am again and trust me if I can do it, so can you.

I do hope your fww is doing all that she can and working to empathize and meet your needs. If not, I am sure there are resources other BS (I didn't reconcile and he would never change so....) can recommend you give her. Some things work better then others depending on like your learning style.

Just (both of you) make a commitment to be as kind and gentle as you can with each other and yourselves daily. That's just a really good practice. Martyrdom and abuse doesen't help or change anything but love and kindness will. Your sex life (I'm pretty sure) will improve as ya'll rebuild your marriage.

Hope this helps.

Try to meet those needs because if you don't thinks go off rail and they or you start to look for someone or something else to meet that need. You wouldn't continue to go to work every day if your boss stopped paying you.

Stop trying to blame me (or any BS) for my/their WS going and fucking someone else, Imjustagurl. Thanks!

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 1:21 PM, May 21st (Sunday)]