SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My tag line is no longer even true as I am now in my early 40s

Staystrong, I think you misunderstood my point. Maybe I did not communicate it clearly. I was making a point for how people in general can change, period. Specifically people who are considered “wayward.” There are different ways to be wayward outside of infidelity.

A few formal definitions of wayward:

“following one's own capricious, wanton, or depraved inclinations; ungovernable. (i.e. a wayward child)”

“following no clear principle or law; unpredictable”

“ opposite to what is desired or expected”

I think the example I used fits the above.

It was stated (not by the OP) something to the effect that it is possible that “waywards aren’t candidates for anything.” I find that to be a major generalization, and one that minimizes the ability of human beings, however sordid their actions might have been, to transform. I don’t see how it is so difficult to think that a person who was once an addict or a thief or a sex worker or a gang member can change yet a person who had an affair cannot. I think they can all potentially change. They might not all change, but they can.

I was not in any way belittling the abuse and manipulation that human trafficking survivors (in my program we did not call them victims) have endured. It was the most rewarding work of my life and I would never do that.

Perhaps my example seems like a stretch, but in my mind it made sense. But that doesn’t mean it made sense to anyone else; I am accustomed to not being understood. As a person with Asperger’s, my communication skills are totally craptastic.

I apologize for my failure to effectively communicate my intent and for any issues it caused.

So sorry for your pain.

If this stance helps you through your healing, then I wish you well.

But it doesn't "sound" like a healed viewpoint.

Unless it was a ONS and your partner is truly remorseful it's useless to try and save the marriage.

Respectfully, not only is this a generalization, but it is dismissive of those who HAVE successfully reconciled.

Obviously, it's not for you, and I'm glad for you...that you have clarity about that.

Maybe, just don't take away from someone else's reality.

I wish you well. And I hope you will soon know you truth without the intensity against those who don't share your opinions.

So here’s my 2 cents if anyone cares:

1) As others have said, we are all in different situations. R for some D for others. It’s our lives we need to decide whats best for us.

2) I tend to agree with skins21. The fact the WS has “one up” on me would eat me alive. I know I know but I’m just being honest here.

3) For me, and this is my personal opinion.....I understand people work through infidelity and have a better marriage after the affiar (supposedly)....but just take a few steps back. To me, and call me crazy maybe, but it just shouldn’t be that fucking hard to keep another man’s dick out of your vagina, or your own dick out of a random vagina. Sex should be between husband and wife. No one else. If you want out of the marriage or you want to fuck someone else...tell your spouse and just leave.....what does cheating accomplish?

4) I truly believe people who cheat have a mental disorder whether it be hereditary (my XWW def has Daddy issues) or bc they were raised by 2 broken parents (my Ex-in laws hate each other).

5) As a BS I was in the same marriage as my XWW, with similiar frustrations. I never once thought of cheating on her to “get mine”. It’s childish, dangerous, narcissistic and accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Hats off to anyone that even offers R. For me, if you piss me off or hurt me I just remove you from my life. I’m too fucking old for bullshit and drama.

Not sure WS's are good candidates for anything, really.

I beg to differ. One started this site that you are posting on. With her husband. Two of the best people I've ever met.

I hear you. Spent close to a year myself trying to reconcile only to discover him on a dating website as single for too long. I feel your pain. Once you decide your done... well, your done. It changes everything. I asked myself at the time, why did it take me so long to see it? Finally I was free of all the cheating and now I knew I had done all I could do for the relationship.

I feel for all those out there trying too because I was there and know how very painful it can be. We are all in this club called the betrayed club, all together. This is a hard road to navigate no matter which direction any BS decides to take. For those who are successful in reconciliation, congrats to you.

I wasn't trying to say waywards can't be fine people in general. It doesn't matter to me if you are a WS or BS. Its not some fucking club I want to join. But I wouldn't say any Wayward is a good candidate bc if they were able to lie to you during the affair, they can certainly do it during false R. If they can cheat on a marriage in the first place, they aren't a good candidate. The good candidates just have shame which sadly many people lack. Either way, its a gamble and why am I gambling for something I no longer respect?

And yes we all make mistakes but not all mistakes are created equal especially given the circumstances. I might be friends with an adulterer but I'd be a fucking idiot to marry them knowing what I know . Just as I wouldnt hire a former thief to guard a register, I wouldn't date or marry a cheater. I consider the odds and figure people are more likely than not to revert to old behaviors. Maybe they won't but there are so many better, healthier options in life.

ASoCalledLife

I must have "Asbergers" too - I understand you opinion and experience.

But - a lot of waywards are not going to learn or change on the schedule the BS can live with. I think that is the meaning or intent of Skins.

ALSO Note that some waywards transgressions are so egregious that only Jesus could forgive (Abivalent1?)

So Skins has a wayward that he feels isn't going to be worth continued effort and right now feels such effort was a massive gamble that he lost.

Taking umbrage with his broad strokes of the pen is just stoking argument. It should be obvious he is has a slight miss on one of his cylinders and a tune-up in the future will sort him out.

Skins- get back out and socialize - there are lots of ladies that are looking for someone with whom they can trust! I like to think of the situation you are in as picking up some produce at the grocery and thinking I checked each item carefully - and then get home to chuck into fridge and find the beginnings of a rotten spot. Too bad you can't cut out the rotten part eh?

Cue: NTV - fart joke please!!

I wasn't trying to say waywards can't be fine people in general.

That's exactly what you said. You didn't qualify it. I have nothing else to say.

Cue: NTV - fart joke please!!

Fart jokes are in f & g for now, mwahahahah

Tred, my empathy is running on fumes...

T/J:

Randy wrote:

I wasn't trying to say waywards can't be fine people in general. It doesn't matter to me if you are a WS or BS. Its not some fucking club I want to join. But I wouldn't say any Wayward is a good candidate bc if they were able to lie to you during the affair, they can certainly do it during false R. If they can cheat on a marriage in the first place, they aren't a good candidate. The good candidates just have shame which sadly many people lack.

But earlier, Randy wrote:

Not sure WS's are good candidates for anything, really.

Own your words, Randy. Don't backpedal now. You didn't say waywards aren't a good candidate for marriage. You wrote "anything."

I'm with Tred. Deeply Scared and Mangled Heart started this site out of their own pain. DS poured her freaking SOUL into this place. The majority of the waywards who post on this site are here because they want to be better people. There have been some who were here to pretend, in order to get their BS off their back. But they tend to dry up and blow away pretty quickly. So your comment about waywards is much more likely to be read by a remorseful WS than the ones who truly deserve your disrespect.

End T/J.

Skins, I know you're in pain, and I'm sorry that it's so hard. I truly hope for better days for you soon.

Tred, my empathy is running on fumes...

Then perhaps you should both step away from this thread.

One more time for everyone, stop with the Generalizations.

Ok I'll step away. I'm sorry if I insulted all you adulterers.

There are moments that I think reconciliation is pointless, too. I have decided that waywards are unique in their behaviors, transgressions, AND recovery. Do I think any wayward ever makes a 180 degree turn around? Maybe if it's not who they were and instead represents a short period of out of character behavior. Most will not do the 180, though.

But I did not say that WS won't or can't change! They can and do. But how much is enough? How many small transgressions equal a big one? How many corrections and reminders until you just can't exert the energy even one more time?

I still say that the fundamental issue is more the yin yang, the marital dynamic.

One person is more selfish

The other is more giving.

Or

One person is more confident

The other needs an ego boost.

Or

One person has better coping skills

And the other person is weaker.

Can the person who is needy, acted on that need, felt entitled, couldn't cope or whatever--can that person become strong? Or did they choose us to hide behind from the start?

Sometimes I think my H cannot see me differently, cannot be different with ME: selfless, confident, authentic, strong. I wonder if his best chance at change is a whole new marital dynamic? I just don't know.

Whoa. That is one hell of a thread. Filled with action.

I would say all waywards are different. I can tell you that mine has done pretty much everything right to keep me.’it is me that is wavering.

She has been a supportive partner, when I haven’t been. She’s seen the error of her ways and has laid awake crying at night for what she’s done.

But she knew what she did at the time. We’ll deal with that.

Of course every situation is different. Some don’t leave the AP, some engaged in an affair with your best friend or you sibling. There are lines that we can’t imagine crossed that paint a different picture of the situation. And then there is your own behavior that we need to focus on. Nothing justifies an affair but our own failings can be motivating factors.

But R is hard. And it’s what you’re trying to achieve in the end.

You staying for true love, money, kids, inertia, whatever it may be, R is going to be a tough road.

Good luck, but it seems like your mind is set. Hope the house sells

"I'm sorry if I insulted all you adulterers"?

Sounds like a passive aggressive comment made by a teenager.

Skins, I completely understand your post and I'm sorry that you're in pain.

What was it that triggered this lightbulb moment for you?

What was it that triggered this lightbulb moment for you?

Finally going to IC after a year of struggling with eating this shit sandwich on my own. It's helped me gain a better perspective about how my life could be if I remove the toxic influence that's been holding me back and realizing that severely broken people do not make good life partners. No matter how much they "change" they cannot change their core being or fix all of their character flaws. That there were too many lines crossed to offer forgiveness (at least in my situation) or to even attempt rebuilding a new relationship.

I just decided that I've spent a year doing most of the work getting out of infidelity and that I don't want to waste another 2-4 years trying to heal with the person who broke me mentally/spiritually. Why would you want to stay with your abuser as a trauma victim?

Why would you want to stay with your abuser as a trauma victim?

I can't speak for others. For me the reasons were: family, kids, money, potential, control.

My ww had a lot of hoops to jump through.

There was a saying when I first got here that went "when should I get a divorce?" "When the desire not to see your spouse everyday outweighs the desire to see your kids everyday." It felt to right to me in my situation I had it in my signature block for a while. And for me, my desire to see my kids everyday was very strong.

Would I like to say it was some sappy shit like love will conquer all? Not really. For me, it wasn't was she worth the second chance but were my kids worth it? And my answer to myself was yes.

Without kiddos, I wouldn't be in r. If it happens again, I'll be divorcing for sure. If my desire not to see her outweighs seeing the kids, I will be divorcing.

Every one else might have some different reasons for reconciliation or divorce. For me, though its that simple because I made it that simple.