SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I dress for function and comfort. Don't need or want any external validation as my internal validation works just fine.

On date nights with Xhole, I would dress in ways I knew he enjoyed. Yes, I did that for my spouse. It wasn't because I needed his validation, but rather I was trying to be, oh, I don't know, nice by thinking of him? Just like if I cooked him his favorite meal for his birthday? Being nice without being dissected as to motive, what a concept!

Outside of that, I dress for myself and the situation. It may be sweats and no makeup on the weekend running errands, or professional/office casual attire for work, or even multiple layers and a parka because it is sub-zero outside and I am not into frostbite!

I can see how validation needs (internal vs. external) can play into it, but the problem comes when others try to think they know what makes someone else tick and base their judgments on those assumption. SO much room for error!

I taught my daughters to dress appropriately for a given situation (including leading by example), and to have respect for themselves in the process. Something must have sunk in because they do just fine.

I taught my daughters to dress appropriately for a given situation (including leading by example), and to have respect for themselves in the process. Something must have sunk in because they do just fine.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

One of the potential signs that there might be adultery is a change of appearance, going to the gym and working out more, etc. How often have we read here that the WW started wearing a different style of clothes to work - maybe sexier - or suddenly a new hairstyle or some other things? Why did they do that?

My WW suddenly decided she needed her eyebrows shaped and dyed. Never before. Same time period she decided she needed another set of holes in her ears. Never before. So I bought her diamond studs for those holes so she could wear them to his place. She dressed for him when I wasn't home, too.

Just happened to happen at around the same time. Coincidence, I guess.

"what I was wondering is, does this boil down to internal/external validation behavior?"

Here is the original question so I'll answer this from my point of view.

I will take this back to our origins, and that of the flora and fauna of our existence. Males and females are born with one intention and one intention only, and that is to BREED. It is in our self interest consciously or not to look attractive to the other sex. You are doing it, even if you don't think you are, unless you are purposefully self sabotaging yourself. Animals large and small have developed ways to attract members of the opposite sex, through coloration, sound calling, dancing, nest building and fighting. Its bred into us and you have very little control over this part of nature. Sure, you've got a bigger brain, and choices, but we're not that far out in our development, our existence is short compared to other species who all have similar goals of mating and attracting a mate.

So while no one here is saying that you are purposefully dressing to attract the opposite sex, in a way, nature has caused all species to develop ways to attracting the opposite sex. We know that men are visual creatures. So to say that Men do not and are not attracted by the way a women looks is just outright stupid, and I don't think anyone is arguing that point. So if we look at our OPs original question, do women dress for internal/external validation, and the answer is a def yes. Is this every day, every time No. They are either validating themselves (dress for me as they say), or they are dressing b/c they believe it looks good in societies eyes.

Are there women out there that just don't give a rats---, yes! I know one of them, shes my mother at over 80, she no longer cares. She wears pajamas all day everyday, and only changes to go to the store. But are there women/girls that do care a lot, YES. I see them daily splashing make up on looking at the mirror in their cars, while almost crashing into other vehicles, or are brushing on their eye liner/lash extenders or whatever you call them at the stop light. They care, I promise you they do.

Look at the big beauty chains like Sephora, Lancome..... to clothing companies that are worth billions, they also spend millions marketing this beauty. If no one cared, there wouldn't be all this money being thrown into fashion and make up.

So while no one here is saying that you are purposefully dressing to attract the opposite sex

Some are

Women who dress like this are looking for a message to send and it's not positive at all

When I retired from the Army I went back to college.Uncle Sam was willing to pay for a good education, so why not. One semester I needed a 3 hour class. My advisor told me to pick any class, that fit my schedule. There was one Sociology that fit the bill and I signed up for said class. I walked into class the first day to discover it was a nurse's class. There were 25 to 30 women and me and one other man. He and I quietly sat at the back of the class. The second time class met the other man had disappeared leaving me and a room full of women. During the next two classes I stayed quiet, at the back of the class. Needless to say, once in a while, there was a bit of man bashing. When this occurred they would all turn and look at me. I stayed quiet. During the fourth or so class, the subject of how a person dresses was being discussed. I heard the same things that people on here are saying. One young lady, with much emphasis, said, "I dress to suit myself and no one else." That's when I stopped being quiet. In a good command voice I said, "Time out" and gave the sports signal for time out. I looked at her and said,"You are dressed in a very nice dress, makeup on to perfection, rings, necklace, bracelet, stylish shoes and you dressed for yourself. Then I am to assume you dress the same way when you are home alone. You, in truth, dressed the way you are because you wanted people to think you look nice, therefore you dress for them. I'm married and I know how my wife dresses when she is at home and dresses for herself and I know how she dresses when she goes out. I also know how she dresses when she dresses for me. When my wife dresses for herself she is wearing something comfortable, sweats maybe, no bra, and maybe some lipstick. She got a ticket once for a minor traffic accident and had to go before a judge. My wife is very attractive, well put together and has ample "girl parts". She went to court in a short skirt, low cut with nice cleavage. She dressed for the judge. She also walked out of court without paying a fine. People dress for themselves when alone but for other people when they go where other people can see them." I therefore believe there are very, very few people who dress strictly for themselves. Even people who dress in some very odd or crazy way are expecting other people to notice them. The last time you went on a date, did you dress for yourself or for the person you were going out with. In other words did you wear sweats and sneakers or did you dress nice? What it comes too is that we dress for all the reasons given here.

1. We dress to suit ourselves

2. We dress for comfort

3. We dress to impress a man or woman

4. We dress to so we won't be viewed as a slob

5. We dress for the occasion

By the way, that was the best class I ever had.

I do wish you well.

I have two responses to this question.

First, the question itself is suffering from a nasty case of heteronormativity.

A woman dressing in a way that is designed to attract sexual attention is not equivalent to dressing "for men."

Plenty of women dress sexy for their female partners, though the lesbian version of "sexy" is often quite different, and less likely to conform to standards of "sexy" that have been established with reference to the male gaze.

Second, I have to be honest. I am a hardcore feminist. But I have always found it pretty disingenuous when women defend certain modes of outfitting themselves as being only "for themselves" or not at all designed with male sexual attention in mind.

Why on Earth would someone go through the misery of wearing a wired push-up bra, and then squeezing themselves into a skin-tight, low-cut shirt, if not to make their breasts look sexually "tantalizing"?

The whole purpose of a push-up bra is to make your breasts appear to conform to the male-gaze-ideal-fantasy-version of breasts. Which is fine. But I don't see how you can wear an article of clothing that is 100% designed to contort your body into a male sexual fantasy, and then say "I'm not doing this for the male gaze, btw, I'm just doing it for 'me.'"

It's just not plausible.

I think some women are sometimes unwilling to admit that, while they condemn the male gaze as being socially and culturally problematic for female dignity, they sometimes want to enjoy basking in it a bit, for the feeling of sexual power and confidence it can offer.

I think the very sticky question at the heart of this, for women, is: How can a heterosexual woman express her sexual being (through clothing, for example), without playing into the hands of a cultural standard that reduces her sexual being to her role as a sexual object. I'm not sure we have a good answer to that question, yet. But I think it's the question we need to be asking.

Here is another man throwing out his opinion. I do think that most women dress for themselves and for other women. However, there are times when some women do dress for attention of other men. Usually one man. You read examples here of a WW who changes the way she dressed, what she normally wears, dressing more sexy or revealing. Is that for another woman or themselves? No. That is for that AP. Likewise, my wife on occasions will dress in "..in that dress you like" or wear something specifically for me. I know this to be true. I don't think most women dress for men. But there are times, scenarios, occasions when this is true. To say that there is zero time that women dress for men or a man to be is just not true.

I'm stealing some of this response from my comment in the thread in Wayward but modifying it to address what ibonnie asked.

There's a difference between dressing to be comfortable, dressing to be admired, and dressing to be attractive -- and IMO, we have a big societal problem with assuming that the clothes alone define the message. My 16-year-old daughter can wear a strappy tank top that exposes the same amount of skin as one that she wore when she was 6. In both cases, she picked it because it was hot out, and she thought the top was both cute and comfortable. No one would say the 6-year-old did it to look sexy, but some posters here argue that the 16-year-old is obviously doing it to be sexy, solely because her body grew breasts in the interim. And if her body grew bigger breasts, it's therefore intended to be a bigger message, because the same top looks "sluttier" on a 38C than a 32B. That attitude makes steam blow out my ears, because that's entirely about what's going on in other people's heads, not her own. I can tell you as that kid's mother, she has zero interest in attracting boys right now (or girls, for that matter; there are strong heterosexual assumptions in some of the comments here). Trust me, it's not that she's my little pumpkin and I can't accept her sexuality. I was far more sexually advanced at her age, as was one of my other children. I'm just guaranteeing you that that is not her personality or intent, and saying she should wear unnecessary extra fabric to deflect someone else's assumptions really irritates me.

Are there women who wear skimpy clothes to look sexy? Yes. Are there women who wear skimpy clothes because they look cute? Yes. Are there women who wear skimpy clothes because it's boiling hot out? Yes. Some women wear them for all three reasons, at different times and in different contexts.

If my daughter wears a tank top to school because it's June and the place has no air conditioning, it's not being done to make the anyone gawk. Now, if she were taking duck-lipped selfies in that tank top, with a camera angle pointed at her cleavage, she and I would have words about the context and the message that sends. (It hopefully goes without saying that no outfit or attitude gives permission to harrass or assault.) Body language, facial expressions and context define the message. Clothes alone do not.

Finally, to wrap back around to the original question, my daughter is self-confident in many areas of her life, not just clothes. She could snap her fingers and be in a relationship tomorrow if she wanted to (I know this factually, from offers she's turned down), but she says she doesn't have the time to spend on anyone else with all her classes and activities. She dresses for herself, and while she's happy if a friend finds her outfit to be cute, her self-validation does not appear to be tied up in it in any way.

High five, WCE, for beating me to the herteronormativity point by four minutes!

anoldlion

HOW DID YOU WALK OUT THERE ALIVE ???

herteronormativity

That's a really big word...

Wanna solve all clothing issues?

Let's all go back to hostas leaves and bear skins

In a good command voice I said, "Time out" and gave the sports signal for time out. I looked at her and said,"You are dressed in a very nice dress, makeup on to perfection, rings, necklace, bracelet, stylish shoes and you dressed for yourself. Then I am to assume you dress the same way when you are home alone. 

I have absolutely left my house dressed in pj pants and sweats. I have also stayed in my house with no plans to go out, put on makeup, did my hair, and put on some fantastic sparkly dress..... because I wanted to. Just to hang out at home.

Let's all go back to hostas leaves and bear skins.

If we did, I guarantee I'd get a memo home from school about the required length of my daughter's hosta leaves. My son could wear any size bear skin he chose, as long as it wasn't dyed a gang-associated color.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 4:07 PM, April 2nd (Tuesday)]

At the risk of sounding incredibly boring (but also, honest): the people I know dress for all sorts of reasons.

I’ve known some women and some men who dress for attention from their gender of attraction. My husband is one of those folks. He would come home talking about which girls noticed him that day and about how nice he looked. He has another motivation, though: he was homeless for about 3 years before I met him. He’s sworn that he never wants to dress or feel homeless again, so he takes pride in nice clothes.

Some folks I know dress a certain way for their friends - either by wearing things that their friends gift them as a sign of connection, or just to be able to hear their friends say “you look cute!” or “where did you get that _________?”

Some folks I know dress a certain way for their partners - either to be attractive to them, or to hide their assets if their partner is worried about other people paying attention to them.

I’ve known some people who dress for themselves. Like I said, my husband is somewhat of an example of this. I’ve known folks who might have suffered from low self-esteem or maybe just want to celebrate feeling good inside themselves, so they’ll dress in a way that makes them feel powerful, sexy, confident, etc. I’ve done this from time to time, though not recently.

The vast majority of folks I know, of all genders, dress the way they do for either practicality or comfort. A number of those folks are constantly on the move and need to be able to get a lot done in a day, and thus choose sensible clothes that allow for freedom of movement, physical comfort, and minimal fussing. I mostly followed that same pattern in my life, with times of exception.

Some friends I know dress in order to explicitly communicate their gender. A number of them are transgender or gender fluid and don’t want to be identified incorrectly.

Finally, a very small subset of folks I know (and this is the other main reason behind how I dress) dress in a certain way to avoid attention or to hide our assets. Some of us are survivors of sexual assault or contend with unwanted harassment on such a regular basis that dressing a certain way provides what feels like armor to us. Potential harassers can’t see us or touch us easily, because our clothing choices inhibit their attempts.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 4:16 PM, April 2nd (Tuesday)]

((silverhopes))

((silverhopes))

Two hugs: one for what you've been through, and one for pointing out that trans folks have a place in this discussion.

High five, WCE, for beating me to the herteronormativity point by four minutes!

High five returned, BraveSirRobin

Well done, us

*edited for typo

[This message edited by WorstClubEver at 4:22 PM, April 2nd (Tuesday)]

Visit a Southern California beach and say folks don’t dress for the opposite gender. (Or same gender).

Not everyone.... but A LOT are there for that reason. Period.

[This message edited by Hg65 at 4:28 PM, April 2nd (Tuesday)]

Sometimes in the summer I put on a strappy little top and short shorts even though I have no intention of leaving the house. I even straighten my hair and put on make up! And I go nowhere. Why do I do it? Because I feel cute and young and trendy, and it's fun. There can't be any other reason because I actually go nowhere, not even on an errand.

I dress based on my mood. I like to feel good about myself, and I think a lot of other people do, too. I dress fashionably for work and love clothes. My H has never once complained. The most he ever says is, "You always look nice." He let's me be me, and that is one of the reasons I respect him.

I work with many overweight women, some of them bursting out of their clothes (usually ripping their pants and leaving to get more). Nobody ever calls them "dressing sexy." If you have a nice body, you better cover it. If you are overweight, wear what you want. Hmm. Sounds like judgment inspired by jealousy? That's what I see IRL. I've learned to block out haters and do my own thing. My internal compass works just fine.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:42 PM, April 2nd (Tuesday)]

But I never wear leggings as pants. I worked with women who do even though it is against dress code. These women are a little chunky, so I guess that's why nobody says anything. People don't think these women are "trying to be sexy." Put a cute 20something at work into the same outfit? She will be written up for dressing too sexy. For sure.