SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It is also true that some couples can get through an awful lot and come out on the other side stronger.

An affair never improves a relationship, not even indirectly.

TRDD,

WW has already blown up the 6 years with her behavior. Those don't matter at this point.

Seriously, if OP wants kids some day, there are grave problems in this relationship. I would not push someone forward at this point when there are many signs WW has multiple issues and the relationship become a one-sided one of one partner always acting out. OP deserves better than that.

I would counsel separation at least at this point. People waste decades, lives on these bad relationships. The six years are a sunk cost.

You mention separation, what does that, should that look like in a case like this?

It's going to be very tough for me to move on and move forward with D but I'd rather D as a way to S than just s

[This message edited by Awfulawfulday at 1:10 PM, September 15th (Sunday)]

I can't answer the question about what separation would look like for you. People here on SI are experiencing in-house separation. I can't think of anything more painful than that except the adultery itself.

Where I am you can get a fault divorce in 3 months. Only 3 things qualify for a fault divorce of which adultery is one. If the betrayed spouse didn't separate from the wayward immediately, however, that doesn't apply. If you didn't separate immediately by law you've condoned the adultery. By law I condoned my wife fucking another man in an LTA.

When a fault divorce doesn't apply you need to separate for a full year. It's been almost 2 years (later this month) since we separated. The Separation Agreement is just now being drafted. Once it is signed the divorce can be applied for at the court.

Sorry my man. Life is definitely not fair

You have been M only three years. And your WW has already had a minimum of one affair, having sex with the guy twice & kissing another COW. Seriously dude you don't need additional evidence, what for? does it make it better if she only banged one guy a couple times than if she has had multiple FB during your M. From my side she did the deeds because she wanted to. No amount of Croc tears needed from her side. She wanted to have sex with other men instead if her H.

She has shown you who she is only 3 years into your M. Time to show her who you are and do what you need to do. You're young & having to deal with this shitstorm is BS. There are women in this world with integrity, commitment, loyalty, honesty & morals, unfortunately for you she doesn't have any of those tangibles for your M to succeed.

Good luck if you decide to stick with her your going to need it.

[This message edited by notanotherchance at 9:27 PM, September 15th (Sunday)]

she says she'll do anything to help fix this, she is backing it up so far and I believe her.

What exactly does she plan to fix and what has she done? From what you wrote, she's pretty much always had an alcohol problem and you have essentially been satisfied with any show of "improvement". You said she took some of you advice and ignored some. When it comes down to it though, she still chooses to have an alcohol problem and is now blaming her cheating on the problem she has chosen to embrace. After six years of openly discussing her problem, she hasn't sought professional help and she's been cheating as well.

I am very very concerned about the potential for this to be fixed

It already is fixed. The only thing you can change is your tolerance for a drunken, cheating partner.

You made a comment that reminded me of my first couple of weeks, what can I do to expedite this. This was my exact reaction, it is how I do things at work, and normally I treat problems like a toothache, I know fixing it will hurt but lets do it now and get it over with.

You need a clear heart, eyes, and mind, and expediting only clears the mind. You need to use your eyes now to see what actually went on, your thing about her exploring a relationship hit me hard. I now know when my wife stopped complaining about this "complete jerk" she worked with to defending him when it wasn't necessary was a red flag. I am sure now that someone who hated the group of people she works with started to go out with said group three times a week maybe something was up. You also need a clear heart, and unfortunately you need to decide whether your heart is still in this.

Stay strong, take your time, and take control of the only aspect of this situation you can, and that is you. Get your heart right, your eyes clear, and your mind will follow. Sorry you are here. You deserve better.

There are so many great qualities, friends all liked her a lot, family and so on, when things are good they're very good and by and large they have been.

If you think thats great, then just imagine how much better it would be with someone who doesn't lie, cheat and drink too much.

The way I am starting to see it is that the alcohol is just her way of shifting responsibility from herself. Making her believe that the drinking problem is what makes her a bad person when it is the other way around. There is clearly something deeper than the booze that is driving these decisions.

She is justifying her behavior by blaming alcohol. Without the alcohol she has no excuse, as poor of an excuse as it is. Without that she realizes that she is just a bad person who drinks in a poor attempt to clear her own conscience of whatever selfish urge she acts on. If that's the case she has no right to be in a relationship with anyone,certainly not me.

Any advice on how to broach with friends and family?

Infidelity is a hard pill to swallow. I suggest you seek support from close friends and family. You do whatever is best for YOU. It’s not your job to hide her affair and protect her reputation.

So sure she maybe finally came clean it seems.

When one reads hundreds of stories here one tends to see various patterns. In your case, there’s probably more. Newly married, all sort of boundary issues, sleeping with a coworker twice (they always say twice it’s eerie), "kissing" another...

Like the others have said, ask for a detailed timeline. Tell her you’ll be verifying it with a polygraph. You may not go through with it but it might motivate her to give you new information.

If you are to consider R, you need to know what your are reconciling.

Tell her "WW, I haven’t decided what to do yet. But one of the worst part of infidelity is the lost of trust. How can there be a marriage without trust? What I need is the truth.

Here’s your truth: write down all of your infidelities ever since we started dating. I will verify this with a polygraph. Lying will get you a D. Tell the truth and I will consider between D and R. ".

Then let her simmer. Then take care of yourself. Go visit your family for a day and accept their support

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 1:30 AM, September 16th (Monday)]

Doesn't have an explanation other than she messed up

While there is no excuses for what she has done I really hate it when cheaters say this, basically it communicates 'I just did it because I wanted to do it, you just have to deal with and accept it'.

The precondition for an effort aimed at repair is that she helps you heal, does she do that?

I do understand that you want to stay with this woman, but is that really what is best for you? Relationships should make you feel happy, not feeling stressed, angry and sad.

YOU have to be YOUR own best friend (180) and do what is best for YOU, more focus on YOU is less focus on her.

You asked for her phone to see, she handed it over to you for inspection, what would have happened and what would she have done and how would she have reacted in case you would not have found the evidence of the affair on her phone?

Be your own best friend man, 180. Strength!

Has she had alcohol since d-day?

She is justifying her behavior by blaming alcohol

That sheds light on your reality.

Now you know that you are dealing with multiple serious issues that will de-rail any healing (not Reconciliation) if she does not address all of them. Top two are the drinking and cheating.

Does she have the ability to stay sober? Without that - there is nothing more that can be done.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:28 AM, September 16th (Monday)]

Awfulawfulday, I'm so sorry you are here.

You never responded if the other man was married or not.

It's very important to let the OBS (OTHER BETRAYED SPOUSE) know

Awful big coincidence that the work event just popped up the same day as your friend's birthday party. Did you contact any of the other co-workers (without mentioning it to your WW) to see if there actually was a work event? Are any of her co-workers covering for her, or becoming "you go girl" wingmen?

Another huge red flag is that her location services just happened to be turned off while she was at the AP's house.

Sorry, but her behavior is that of someone who has done this before.

As mentioned up thread, stating she had sex "twice" is so common it's almost cliche. She is most likely minimizing the number of times. Only twice? See, it wasn't that bad! Next, you'll probably find that the other co-worker she "just kissed" was also intercourse.

You've had suspicions for more than 6 months of your 3 year marriage. What else are you unaware of?

Ask your WW why she's been seeking and initiating hookups with co-workers for almost 20% of your marriage (that you know of)? She obviously remembers it after her drinking binges, yet continued to do it. Alcohol lowers inhibitions to allow you to do something you obviously wanted to do anyway, otherwise why the secrecy and planning. I assume she wasn't drunk at work when she planned the rendezvous, right?

She has been hiding her inappropriate 24/7 relationship with the OM from you for months.

Therefore the physical sex is not simply attributed to drinking. While sober she interacted, planned and intended to be with him in advance (all behind your back).

She's in damage control and now a known liar. Among other things the following personality characteristics enabled her to cheat: selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lacking in empathy for you.

The way I am starting to see it is that the alcohol is just her way of shifting responsibility from herself. Making her believe that the drinking problem is what makes her a bad person when it is the other way around. There is clearly something deeper than the booze that is driving these decisions.

She is justifying her behavior by blaming alcohol. Without the alcohol she has no excuse, as poor of an excuse as it is. Without that she realizes that she is just a bad person who drinks in a poor attempt to clear her own conscience of whatever selfish urge she acts on. If that's the case she has no right to be in a relationship with anyone,certainly not me.

Those are very perceptive comments.

I have a friend who knows that he gets mean when he drinks whisky. So he does not drink whisky.

I have a friend who says, "I act like a lunatic when I drink cider". So he does not drink cider.

Your wife has known that she acts inappropriately with other men when she is drunk. She has had wake-up calls in the past, like kissing a co-worker. She continues to drink.

The point is that if a person does not like the way drink or drugs affects their behaviour, they avoid them.

If a person knows, and continues to use drink or drugs, then they are not averse to the effects of those substances, or the way they act when under their influence.

If there had been a single incident, it could be considered as a chicken and egg situation. Does your wife act inappropriately with other men because she is drunk, or does she get drunk to enable her to act inappropriately with other men?

However, there have been several incidents where your wife has acted inappropriately with other men while drunk, so there is no mystery to be solved. Alcohol is deliberately being used as both an enabler and an excuse.

And whatever has been said about her actions with her affair partner, you only have her word to go on about how drunk she was when she cheated.

The other issue is that unless your wife is a functional alcoholic, who is partially drunk 24/7, 365 days a year, then she was sober when she texted her affair partner for weeks, and sober when she decided to drop out of going to the event with you, and go out with him instead.

So whether she was drunk by the time she went home with him or stone cold sober is irrelevant, because she knew what the intended outcome was going to be the second she left the house.

She was either thinking, "I am going home with X tonight", or, "I am going to get hammered and go home with X tonight".

What you have grasped is that being hammered is the way she establishes an excuse to justify actions that she is fine with, but knows she should not be doing.

If she was not comfortable with going out and getting black-out drunk, why would she keep doing it? I do not like dropping housebricks on my foot, so I am careful when I carry housebricks while wearing sandals.

If you knew that every time you put a rucksack over your head and go for a drive you end up driving your car into a tree, how often could you do that and use, "But I had a rucksack on my head" as an excuse for plowing your car into yet another tree?

Any sentient listener would respond, "You have enough experience to know what happens when you do that".

If you had to describe the dynamic that exists between you and your wife, what would it be?

The sensible one and the crazy one?

Parent and child?

The introvert and the extrovert?

Teacher and pupil?

Leader and follower?

There are loads more combinations that could be thrown into the arena, but the point is that acceptance of your wife's actions when she is drunk creates a dynamic between you that leaves you as the fall guy.

I know you must see this now, but the first time your wife went out, got sh*tfaced, and vanished, should also have been the last. It was a signal that she needed to develop better self-control.

Unless your wife changes, there will be repeat performances of her cheating. Unless you change your attitude to her actions, she will not change them.

You are in no way, shape, or form to blame for your wife's conscious, sober decision to cheat. However, you are responsible for the decision about whether or not you are going to continue enabling her actions by not setting firm boundaries in your relationship with her.

You cannot control your wife; you can only control yourself. Your wife may want to be a drunk party girl for the rest of her life. You cannot control that. What you can control is how long you remain married to her if she wants to pursue that lifestyle.

Recent events dictate that you either cut your losses and go now, or define your boundaries and what you will (and will not) tolerate, and stay or go depending on how your wife responds to your boundaries.

There must be no more tolerance for boozy disappearances, because that will lead to more trouble.

[This message edited by M1965 at 6:30 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)]

The way I am starting to see it is that the alcohol is just her way of shifting responsibility from herself. Making her believe that the drinking problem is what makes her a bad person when it is the other way around. There is clearly something deeper than the booze that is driving these decisions.

She is justifying her behavior by blaming alcohol. Without the alcohol she has no excuse, as poor of an excuse as it is. Without that she realizes that she is just a bad person who drinks in a poor attempt to clear her own conscience of whatever selfish urge she acts on. If that's the case she has no right to be in a relationship with anyone,certainly not me.

Exactly right. She uses alcohol as an excuse. But she plans her infidelity way too much for it to be blamed on alcohol.

She planned to screw this guy while she knew you would be tied up at the birthday party. She actually went to the party with you for a while then left to be with her lover.

She left to be with him and TURNED OFF HER LOCATION FINDER. This is advance detail planning.

She says she has had sex with him twice (same night or another meeting on a different date?)

None of this planning and execution involved alcohol. She was totally clear headed when she planned this. She did it because she wanted to do it. Not because of alcohol.

She has shown you who she is. Believe her.

She may play at being remorseful for a time. But she seems so totally selfish she is likely to do it again.

She did not care about you at all when she did all of this. Her only concern is her own selfishness.

No matter how much you love her, you cannot fix her or change her base character.

Would you have considered planning a sexual night with another woman like she did with her lover? That shows you that she does not love you enough to be faithful. That shows you she was OK with trashing her marriage vows and lying to you. And potentially exposing you to an STD.

Time to protect yourself and run.

My advice to betrayed spouses who are young and don’t have kids is to RUN.

I’m going to stick to this advice again. Just, RUN, dude.

And inform the asshole’s wife or partner.

Also, let HR know.

I have to agree with Mene here. Just being brutally honest. Look, some or many of us are in situations with kids and decades of marriage. Financial entanglements, etc. Those MUST factor into our decisions. I do love my WW, but there is absolutely no question in my mind that if she’d done this to me when we were younger and childless, I’d have divorced her immediately.

You can love someone and also realize that they are not a safe life partner. In my WW’s case, the off-the-charts gaslighting and trickle truth, and the extremely humiliating sexual act in our home, are so degrading that, absent other factors, there is no way I would continue to subject myself to being entangled with this person. We are trying to make it work. Jury’s still out.

In YOUR case, you are only six years in, no kids, and your wife has shown she has no respect for you. This was not a ONS. While a ONS is still a deliberate choice, this was a planned and deliberate act magnitude of orders above that, which she then sloughed off on her self-evident problem with alcohol. And she habitually seems to stay out until 2 or 3 in the morning while you are at home? So you actually have 2 of the toxic “A’s” that are grounds for immediate divorce — adultery and alcoholism.

It is going to be VERY difficult, beyond even the difficulty many of us face with years of marriage, for you to see your wife as a suitable life partner over time. I don’t want to be discouraging or the bearer of bad news, and it may be that you can reconcile.

But I also want to be a realist here: when the shock wears off and you begin to think with clarity, you will more than likely feel trapped in a loveless marriage over time. Your “oneitis” will disappear. You will meet many women who find you attractive, and you will likewise be attracted to them. They will be intelligent, successful, warm women — and you’ll begin comparing them to your WW. She won’t fare well in that comparison.

I am attempting to reconcile with my WW. I do believe some marriages can be saved. In the wake of adultery, I do NOT believe all, or even most, should or can be saved. And I do NOT believe that reconciliation should be the default. In fact, the opposite.

I know that makes me a bit of an outlier here, but I think it’s the more realistic view. Adultery is a toxic radioactive dirty bomb. Forgiveness is beside the point. Forgiveness does NOT imply staying married and subjecting yourself to years of more abuse and crazymaking.

I also want to encourage you in another way: You are a young man, likely with good prospects. You are not obligated to shackle yourself to pain for a partner who values you so little. There are many quality, good women out there who would treat you with respect, who would be attracted to you, who would make a great mother to your twinkle-in-the-eye children, and a great wife to spend a life with. Consider that.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:09 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)]