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What if the man in your life doesn't want female friends? What if the only woman he really wants in his life is you, does that give you pause on the relationship?

That depends very much on what his reasons are. If he doesn't want female friends because he doesn't find women interesting for conversation/doesn't think they're equal/whatever other weird reason, that's likely sexist, red flag and off my dating list. Also would make me wonder what exactly we're going to talk about when the first rush of infatuation wears off, given that I'm female. If he doesn't want female friends because he thinks he'll cheat, red flag and off my dating list.

If he just doesn't happen to have any female friends but it's not because he has weird ideas about women or is afraid he can't not sleep with them, no biggie. We bond with different individuals for different reasons and not having one that's female isn't a red flag. He doesn't need to be going out and trying to find one to prove anything.

But yes, if the man states that he does not want any female friends, I am going to want to know what thought process led him there.

I just basically agree with Dee on everything lol.

My ex didn't really have female friends until AFTER our daughter was born and he started cheating. Most of the girls I hung out with at the time were former coworkers of both of ours, so he knew them. But he never wanted to be around them or the newer friends I made at work. EXCEPT for my one really hot blonde friend with the perky T&A. He liked hanging out with her but NONE of my other friends. Hindsight 20/20, he'd either struck out in the past with our old mutual coworkers or saw them as generally unfuckable. And my new girlfriends were married. He just had no interest in talking to a woman he wasn't trying to fuck.

So anyway, after he cheated the first few times, he started making all these younger very attractive female friends and I often got the WHAT I CAN'T HAVE FRIENDS???? line. Well, you never wanted female friends in the past . . . bear in mind this is the same man who told ME it was not appropriate for me to go to lunch with a male coworker - including my BOSS when we were at a conference together! Projection.

My current partner likes hanging around my female friends and he is interested in what they say - even the gay ones, the married ones, the not conventionally attractive ones. Because they are actual PEOPLE to him. Not potential lays. So no, I don't have an issue with him having female friends because his motives aren't questionable.

That was a novel. But yeah, like Dee said - the thought process is important.

We don't have a blanket rule in our marriage of "no friends of the opposite sex," but we do have veto power. If either of us gets a bad feeling about someone's intentions, that person is going to get distanced. We come first with each other.

So far, neither of us have implemented the veto. I recently declined a FB friend request from an old college buddy, but that wasn't about him being a threat. He's still friends with OM, and I'm not about to put myself in a situation that could break NC.

Blanket policies must be tricky if a spouse is bisexual. Does that mean no friends at all?

Good point BSR ^

No. No friends of the opposite sex if you’ve cheated

I don’t know about other situations. If you haven’t cheated. I’m not sure . But after cheating. No

My current partner likes hanging around my female friends and he is interested in what they say - even the gay ones, the married ones, the not conventionally attractive ones. Because they are actual PEOPLE to him. Not potential lays. So no, I don't have an issue with him having female friends because his motives aren't questionable.

I basically agree with you on everything too, LOL. Yes, what a concept, that women could be people and not just walking sex toys. You picked well this time around.

Blanket policies must be tricky if a spouse is bisexual. Does that mean no friends at all?

I'm bisexual. Did that factor come into play during my As? Did it impact my H? I think that's a twofold answer. Yes, it absolutely impacted my H. On the surface, now he has double the amount of pain and worry. Yes, it did come into play during my As, tangentially. One of my APs was a woman. However, my lack of boundaries wasn't confined to just APs, it was all encompassing. I overshared, I turned away from my relationship for support, etc etc. After D-Day, I cleaned out everyone not related and severely reevaluated my boundaries with family. Now I share with my therapist, support group, and selectively with some family members. I give total transparency to my H about who I'm sharing with and why.

I guess the point for me is that it was never really about sexuality, it was about that void in me and the press for external validation. If I'm honest, I treated the identification like another chip on my shoulder and an entitlement. My bisexual rights! Now, it's just there, an idea, the knowledge that if I wasn't married to a heterosexual cisgender man, that I could be in a different pairing. Addressing the void and its genesis is what has pushed my work, and in turn as it shifts how I relate to the world around me. The sexuality issue is separate from zero worth and boundaries. Is my bisexuality real? Yes. Was the issue my bisexuality? No, it was the lack of boundaries. My bisexuality got lumped in there as a justification.

Does it mean no friends? Well, not so grim. I think it just means learning to fill my own bucket in ways that are in line with my newly rediscovered values, and friendship means a very different thing to me now than it ever did before. JME and JMO!

[This message edited by leavingorbit at 4:08 PM, August 21st (Friday)]

LO

With great respect , even though you have done a fine job with your own behavior does your Bs believe they can trust you completely ? Im not sure I could ... this one is quite a riddle for me ,

In that scenario i think as a spouse i would insist on zero expectation of privacy with any non family member , easier said than done im sure .

You picked well this time around.

Thank you. I wasn't even looking for a relationship but damn, he just kept treating me like a queen and here we are 2 years later.

Nope. Not since he made “friends “ with the women he then fucked.

Interestingly enough, he didn’t make friends with any other women.

So, his reason for having female friends was for sex, not friendship

No arguing with that. That’s exactly right

For me, personally, I think that having friends of the opposite sex is not a good idea. It can lead to all sorts of trouble.

However, I am open to other ideas. What are your thoughts?

This is one of those topics that doesn't fit neatly in a little box, unfortunately.

Do I have male friends? Yes.

Do I have male friends that I confide in, or share very personal parts of my life with? No.

Most of my male friends are either people with whom I have worked (mostly vendors) or people with whom I sing. Since there is a degree (more on the business side than the singing side) of professionalism with both, I establish a boundary. A distance, if you would. We can talk about a wide variety of subjects, but it is definitely professional in nature, even when we are discussing families.

If someone can maintain this professionalism/distance, I don't see an issue with having friends of the opposite sex.

It's when you deal with people who have bad boundaries that this starts to be trouble. One of the MCs we saw told both of us that my then-husband gave off "available" vibes to women and that was one of the larger issues with our relationship and one of the problems we had with his multiple infidelities. Looking back, he had always had boundaries that more resembled a sieve than a wall. And unless or until he was willing to change it, it would be an issue.

So, 36, back to your issue. You had an agreement. A covenant, if you will. And she willfully broke it and not only broke it, but broke your marital covenant as well. Her behavior, as described, indicates many more issues than just having friends of the opposite sex. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that the connection with old flames came either after or in conjunction with the affair. Once she started hitting on the validation pipe, there may have been a need for increased "supply" and therefore seeking out old flames to keep the validation coming.

I do see that there is huge potential for boundary bending in opposite sex friendships. Huge. And I don't see that it is an issue to have an agreement not to engage in those friendships. But I also see that for people with strong boundaries that this might be a non-issue.

Unfortunately, one size does not fit all in this regard.

Cat

This topic comes up from time to time, and over the years I've come up with what I see as a general list of appropriate opposite-sex *actual* friends for hetero people. As always, your mileage may vary.

1. That friend is part of a couple that you and your partner are both friends with and generally only communicate with as couples, very rarely privately except when it makes sense in the greater context of the "couple friends" paradigm

2. That friend is gay

3. In rarer circumstances, that friend is an old family/childhood friend (NOT ex-boyfriends/girlfriends).

4. Also in rare circumstances, that friend shares a specific hobby/pastime that is worth chatting about sometimes or participating in together but that the spouse isn't involved in at all. They're both marathoners or whatever. Still, conversation should generally be limited to topics surrounding that hobby.

~

Because this comes up regularly, I've thought about it a lot, and it causes me to really think about what a "friend" is. Obviously there's a spectrum. Looking at my facebook friends list, there are hundreds of opposite-sex "friends" in my life, but none of them share the same friend-space as my very close male friends.

For those of you who have close friends of the opposite sex, what does that really look like? Calling each other on the phone just to chat? Going to a ballgame together? It's a real question, I'm genuinely interested.

[This message edited by Okokok at 8:09 AM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

IMO, If a spouse has demonstrated "difficulties" with boundaries, his/her relationships are going to require careful oversight.

Example: At 61, my WS has made a few female friends over his lifetime. He has several friends that he went to high school with that are on his Facebook. In one particular instance, shortly after DDay, WS had made a post about some success with a recipe for a particular dish. One of these female friends private messaged him for the recipe. I flagged it (I read everything back then) and asked about it. Of course he saw nothing wrong with it. He took it to his IC. His (weight in gold) IC suggested he bypass the private message, and share the recipe on his main page. The IC suggested a moratorium on messaging any females, even if they were 6o+ years-old, in another country, and inquiring about meatballs.

That's called remedial boundary making, aka behavioral modification (a first of many subsequent lessons in IC). Some folks need it, some folks don't.

[This message edited by HardKnocks at 9:31 AM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

Should your spouse have friends of the opposite sex?

He did.

I'm on SI.

Nuff said.

With great respect , even though you have done a fine job with your own behavior does your Bs believe they can trust you completely ?

Siracha, thank you for your reply. Trust completely, no, never. I lost that trust and it's not coming back. Any trust that he offers now is because I earn it, through transparency and working on myself.

I discussed your question with my H, so what follows is his take. It was something that was difficult after discovery - we both brought added layers of sexuality questions with our MH ish. Ultimately, for him (and me), it comes down to the same routine. Watching actions, consistency, etc.

If I hadn't chose to put in the work and if I stopped continuing to do so, he wouldn't be here. Your suggestion is what I implemented myself, I just don't cultivate relationships of confidence outside of a therapeutic or support group setting. I don't keep secrets from my husband unless it's a present, and that's the bottom line. I think even me keeping a present a secret could be triggering for him, honestly, for a long time after discovery.

I spent 21 years in the military where the men outnumbered us in our units by at least 10:1, and on deployments by over 100:1. I've had male friends for over 30 years. I never cheated on a boyfriend, much less my husband with ANYONE, to include those Army males. Only one man that I dated ever made it a rule that I couldn't have male friends. I laughed in his face and bounced. I also refuse to be the cheater police, so I've never told a man he couldn't have female friends. Im an adult. Anyone I date better be an adult too. Adults know to set boundaries that ate respectful of their SO.

LO

Thats very inspiring , thanks for your response and wishing you guys all the best

Any thread that starts with "Should a spouse/person do this or that" always makes me laugh. Should they??? I mean, if I ran the world? If everyone in the world agreed to follow my mandate? "OwningItNow said that spouses should be allowed to have opposite sex friends. It shall be so!"

Why ask such silly questions with no one-size-fits-all answer?

You do not need the world to agree with you, but whoever you partner up with should agree. That's it. All couples get to decide for themselves since it impacts no one else. Duh.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 7:22 PM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

For those of you who have close friends of the opposite sex, what does that really look like? Calling each other on the phone just to chat? Going to a ballgame together? It's a real question, I'm genuinely interested.

Calling, texting, giving dating/relationship advice to one another, meeting for drinks, going to concerts together. 31-year friendship starting in our teens, never so much as held hands. Have slept in the same home at the same time with no other adults around when not in relationships with other people.

Maybe this is more unusual than I thought, but it has been pretty effortless not sleeping with each other. And we've been drunk together numerous times through the decades.