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DJK

You need to speak with your therapist if you have one man. You cannot still be venting to your wife, she is your ABUSER!

Then I go the dreaded "well I'm still on the fence."

I am sot sure if you have done it yet but separate from her. Sleep in a different bedroom, if she enters the room you are in you leave the room. Stop snooping the marriage is DONE! Stop sipping on the hopium.

Ellie, seriously I'm tempted to just shut off the phone right now but she will say I am vindictive. I'll try to maintain as much moral high ground as I can, but I am going to tell her get the phone off the plan and take one of the kids phones with it. She's been complaining about who is paying more in bills, so now I'm thinking she did it because of $ rather than any attempt at doing something positive. She is a fucking piece of work.

Dignitas. Yes, I keep banging my head on the wall and then wondering "why am I so bloody?"

That hopium is some powerful shit.

I cannot believe what is happening to me. Words cannot describe the pain of betrayal trauma. I'm barely functioning right now. I just hope (there's that fucking hopium again) that today is rock bottom and I can start looking up and crawling out of this hole I'm in. How on earth can it get any worse?

Don't answer that!

[This message edited by DanielJK at 7:36 PM, January 4th (Monday)]

DanielJK, I remember when you came here originally and I’m glad you’re back, but not for the reasons you are back.

This woman is completely manipulating you and to be frank, you are allowing it. She has completely and utterly disrespected you. Please, please continue with the D, implement the 180 for YOU, and limit contact with her as much as humanly possible.

Please also read “No more Mr. Nice Guy”....this book is for you.

[This message edited by Jameson1977 at 10:18 PM, January 4th (Monday)]

How on earth can it get any worse?

Do NOT ask yourself this question. Instead, ask yourself what YOU are going to do to get yourself out of infidelity.

You already know the problem. Your heart has nowhere near caught up to your mind. But if you put in the effort, you can get the two in sync. I remember, shortly after my D-day, that I specifically told my wife: "You are way more detached from this marriage than I am, as you have been doing this for far longer. But don't worry----I'm working REAL hard on getting there myself."

And then I focused on doing just that.

So now I have access to the phone records and who texts her at 1:30 this afternoon? APKurt. I asked her WTF? She said, "well I didn't respond."

My reply, "it doesn't matter, he is comfortable texting you and he should not be."

Then I go the dreaded "well I'm still on the fence."

I'm sorry for your Daniel. I do not understand why it is so hard for your wife to grasp the concept of "no contact" but apparently that takes a whole different level for her. If she really wanted to heal her relationship with you, she would send a NC message to him right away, with you involved so that you know it has been sent. The message shouldn't be anything but straight to the point. The whole phone fiasco kind of shows me that she doesn't get it at all. You didn't want her back on the family phone plan to monitor her, sure it has some benefits there, but you wanted your wife to be back on board moreso with honesty and transparency, neither of which you are getting. Her lashing out was bullshit.

I think by taking the divorce route, you are taking the power back here. It is no longer in her court to sit on the fence and decide, you are making the decision to leave the relationship, so if she wants to keep with Kurt, she certainly can, but not as your wife.

Bor, you said it best.

I think about advice I give to others who show up here. The WS will often say things like “I’m not sure what I want.” “I’m conflicted.”

My advice to anyone in this situation is “then make up their mind for them. They can be as confused as they want, just without you in their life.” It’s a hard message and one I received when I got here, but I did not take is seriously. Limbo is no place to live. It is an absolutely horrible, disgusting place to be. I see clearly now that first and foremost is to GET OUT OF INFIDELITY and get out NOW. There is no confusion in that, there is no fence sitting in that, there is no conflict there. My new year’s resolution is to get out of infidelity. One way or another I am getting out of infidelity.

That’s where I am. She can be on the fence all she wants, I’m not going to wait on either side of the fence and don’t want to be any where near the fence. She can sit on that fence until the day she dies as far as I’m concerned at this point.

For anyone who cares to read it this is one of the messages I received from my STBX yesterday. Quite frankly it’s so insulting on so many levels that I did not respond and can’t even begin to describe how insulting most of this is:

“…my actions have hurt you and our marriage, and I live with that. This was not premeditated and/or intentionally inflicted despite what your text says. I have been and am confused and have tried to figure out which direction is best for me, you, and us as a family. While an affair is never the answer, I don’t regret where I ended up. I am more aware of my need for something different than what I had. With one life to live, we should all aspire to finding the things we need mentally, physically, and emotionally. Many things were missing from our marriage. I struggle with what direction to take and have hoped that my feelings for you and our marriage would become clear. I understand you want to pursue the divorce and I will accept and respect that. I am not able to give you the assurances that you need and deserve.”

“…my actions have hurt you and our marriage, and I live with that. This was not premeditated and/or intentionally inflicted despite what your text says. I have been and am confused and have tried to figure out which direction is best for me, you, and us as a family. While an affair is never the answer, I don’t regret where I ended up. I am more aware of my need for something different than what I had. With one life to live, we should all aspire to finding the things we need mentally, physically, and emotionally. Many things were missing from our marriage. I struggle with what direction to take and have hoped that my feelings for you and our marriage would become clear. I understand you want to pursue the divorce and I will accept and respect that. I am not able to give you the assurances that you need and deserve.”

You can file this message under the category of, well "no shit Sherlock". She clearly hurt you, that wasn't hard to deduce, and to say hurt is really kind of soft-peddling it. Devastated profoundly is a more apt description.

The only reason that she is "struggling" is because she is not 100% committed. She is out there, keeping an open line to her AP or string of APs. There is a section about this in the How to Help Your Spouse Heal book, as long as there is any contact between the WS and AP, the affair is still on-going. Kurt is a fantasy, you are the husband.

One thing that helped my wife sort of snap out of the shit was telling her, well yeah, of course I am difficult, that is what life can be at times. Did this guy ever clean up your puke when you got too drunk and made a mess of our bathroom? Did you ever have to wash this guys stinky gym clothes? I could go on, but you get the point, they didn't live a real life, they lived the best parts of a fantasy reality. They could meet up, have their fun and part ways only to pick it back up later when it was convenient. That isn't how marriage works, I don't get to drop my wife and child when they are sick because I feel like it. She is "confused" because she wants the fantasy, and when she compares fantasy to reality, it of course is more appealing to go fantasy, but she seems to be convinced, like most waywards, that the fantasy is reality. Yeah, good luck with that. A few weeks living with Kurt and she will sprint away from him, making Usain Bolt look slow by comparison.

Wow, this woman is delusional. She is painting the picture to you about how none of this is her fault, it just happened. Total BS. She is intentionally stringing you along while making zero effort to reconcile with you. She knows exactly what she is doing. The more you engage, the more hurt she will cause you. Detach, detach, detach!!

This was not premeditated

If you look at my profile story, I found out about the affair because she Google searched “pros and cons of having an affair” then Google searched for divorce records of AP, then contacted him via social media and went after him aggressively. But it wasn't premeditated. Good God woman, do you hear yourself talk?

I have been and am confused and have tried to figure our which direction is best for me, you and us as a family.

All while keeping contact with AP. And when I say contact I mean contact. Better statement would have been "trying to figure out what is best for me. (stop)"

I don’t regret where I ended up.

Holy shit, our family is imploding but she does not regret what she did. WOW!

I struggle with what direction to take and have hoped that my feelings for you and our marriage would become clear.

All while sneaking around behind my back having a full blown and ongoing affair. The cake eater mentality is truly amazing to witness.

She has to hire an attorney and respond to my summons soon. She’s not going to have to struggle with direction much longer and is going to have to climb down off that fence to face the reality of divorce.

I just wish I would go quicker. IHS is killing me.

Going to sell the house. Any opinions here?

If I keep the house I will have to give her half my savings, then buy her half of the equity in the house. My house needs work, so this will leave me with a house that needs work and no money. I have no interest in this, especially because she will walk away with 6 figures in cash and I will be stuck with a house that needs work and no money. I really want to stay in it, but holy shit I can't do it.

My advice to anyone in this situation is “then make up their mind for them.

No. A million times no.

Make up your own mind. Do not even think in terms of making up someone else's mind. Each of us controls themself. None of us controls others (unless an 'other' allows it). Just thinking that you can make someone else make a choice effs a person up.

*****

Kurt's texting is beyond your control and beyond your W's. He can text. The issue is how your W handles the texts.

They help keep her on the fence. That would seem to make R impossible. You can ask her to make up her mind. That could be relevant to what you do.

But you are the only one who can decide what you will do.

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:30 AM, January 5th (Tuesday)]

Your WS is in La La land like most unremorseful spouses. Her text sounds like a script from Eat, Pray, Love like none of this has anything to do with her pfffft nonsense.. Not only is it premeditated she is confused because she is causing her own confusion. Trying to figure out which direction she should go ... she should go right out the door with her shit with all that noise. She acts like this is some kind of test, she’s delusional.How the hell do your decisions become clear about marriage while you are having an affair she’s the one who muddied the marriage. Oh she’ll regret where she ended up when reality smacks her in the face. Not your problem. And I totally understand your statement about making the decision for her. When she is so “unclear” about things YOU can be clear by ending this bullshit. Geeze she’s a piece of work. Keep going and ignore her texts from now on unless it’s in regards to finances or kids no need to try and decipher bullshit anymore.

The lesson here. The WS needs to come clean and be accountable, there is no halfway here. The WS needs to be open, honest, and transparent. 100%. They need to show that they want to reconcile through actions. The BS should not be doing the heavy lifting (I felt like I was). The funny thing for me is the gut feeling. I had the gut feeling all along, but my heart would not allow me to believe it. Trust your gut, I can’t say it enough, trust your gut.

I hope it’s ok to respond, I am a WS.

This. All of this. After d-day, I was dead set on saving my own ass, whatever dignity was left, I wanted to believe I was still a good person. I did everything wrong. TT, lying, lies by omission. My BH had to give a ultimatum for a timeline. I am so ashamed of it all. And now that I have reached a point of not being a POS, he has no reason to believe I am looking out for him and being honest. It has made recovering 100000x harder, if not impossible. R is all or nothing. If you can’t be all in, have the decency to let your BS be free from you.

Your situation even makes me sick. I am so sorry you have to continue to live through this abuse. I hope you find peace once you’re able to move on.

Thank you IAT.

I’m glad you weighed in. I have used those words many times…, please just set me free.

I think my STBX is in this position at the moment. She likes to volunteer, she’s good with the kids, calls her mother once a week, does trash pickup on Earth day, she’s a “good person” but…well…you know the rest.

For those who watched Game of Thrones…I feel like Theon Greyjoy. The mind games have completely confused me, I don’t know what to believe, and I have serious trust issues. Damaged goods.

The reason I posted “the lesson here…” (forgive me, I’m no expert and certainly not in a position to give ‘lessons’, there are much wiser people here than me) is that I didn’t think I needed all those things that people tell me I needed to achieve R. She told me she stopped texting, she told me she wanted to work on our marriage. I didn’t need to have full access to her phone, I didn’t need the full truth about the affair, I didn’t need much from her, etc. It could maybe work if I put in some effort, if I changed. I was so wrong.

I wish you the best IAT and please respond any time.

I’m in a tough position and the next few months are going to be rough. I need you guys, stay with me.

The reason I posted “the lesson here…” (forgive me, I’m no expert and certainly not in a position to give ‘lessons’, there are much wiser people here than me) is that I didn’t think I needed all those things that people tell me I needed to achieve R. She told me she stopped texting, she told me she wanted to work on our marriage. I didn’t need to have full access to her phone, I didn’t need the full truth about the affair, I didn’t need much from her, etc. It could maybe work if I put in some effort, if I changed. I was so wrong.

I got where you were going with your comment and I agree with you. If the WS is refusing to do any of the work or being 'on the fence', the BS should make the choice that much easier for the poor lil muffin by filing and moving on. There, WS, now you don't have to worry any more about whether you want your loyal spouse or your posap.

DJK - it doesn't matter what part of the process you are in, you have insight and wisdom to share. Please don't ever feel like you can't impart that because you aren't 'as far' down the path. The beauty of SI is that your words and thoughts can and will resonate with someone, no matter where you are in your journey.

I apologize that I don’t know your backstory. Out of curiosity, were you ok with not knowing all details? Not having access to her phone, etc.? One thing that was initially very hard for me to grasp was that I don’t get to decide what is best and healing for my BS. I would lie and convince myself that I was protecting him when I was doing the exact opposite. Some BSs want all details, some don’t. It’s a very personal choice. At the start, I was protecting my own behind. As I slowly came out of the fog (very slowly), I convinced myself that anything I had to say to him would only hurt him more. It wasn’t for me to decide. He needed to take control of his life and in order to do that he needed to know everything. We still run into the conflict of him thinking he doesn’t know everything and that’s completely my fault. If I had just listen to the advice I was given and use the advice in the books that I read, we might have had a better shot at R. Maybe R is impossible because of how I chose to handle the aftermath. (Sorry if this is going too off-topic from your post. I guess part of me hopes someone new here will read this and actually do the right things after d-day.)

I also agree with the poster that said to stop snooping at this point. Now that divorce is the outcome, I’d stop pouring salt in your gushing wound. Even as the marriage ends, she’s proving she’s still only concerned about herself.

“On the fence” isn’t a choice. Since she can’t decide if your marriage is worth it, you decided for her.

I think my STBX is in this position at the moment. She likes to volunteer, she’s good with the kids, calls her mother once a week, does trash pickup on Earth day, she’s a “good person” but…well…you know the rest.

I think one of the hardest things about cheating is that it solidifies the fact that no amount of good deeds can keep you from being a terrible person. I spent the entire duration of my marriage telling my husband that cheating was the worst thing you could do to anyone. Telling him that the pain and the betrayal of it is the most terrible thing you could put anyone through. And then I did it. While it happened, I never considered his feelings or what this would do to him but I was well aware what damage cheating causes. That’s how warped and selfish a wayward’s thinking is. (Or at least that’s how I feel reflecting on my own choices.) I know the damage of cheating, but don’t apply it to my own life and spouse. How messed up is that?

Based on the things I do for other people, my profession, the effort I put into helping others, the effort I put into supporting my friends and coworkers, many also consider me a “good person”. I threw out a lifetime of good deeds and decency when I chose to cheat. I can care about people that aren’t my spouse, but I can’t have common decency for the man I married, the father of my children. My best friend and partner. That’s shameful. He deserved better. All spouses that are betrayed deserve better.

DJK

That is probably the WORST fucking letter I have seen from a wayward. No remorse what so fucking ever!

For those who watched Game of Thrones…I feel like Theon Greyjoy. The mind games have completely confused me, I don’t know what to believe, and I have serious trust issues. Damaged goods

Please detach yourself from her. Theon turned into a Eunuch. In your situation you may come out with PTSD! Do you want PTSD from all the trauma and abuse? THINK of your CHILDREN!

If I keep the house I will have to give her half my savings, then buy her half of the equity in the house. My house needs work,

Why would you keep the house when your wife will walk away like the bandit she is?

This is gonna be some tough love man but you need to cherish and love yourself! You are honestly treating yourself as her doormat with all the abuse. DETACH from her!

[This message edited by BigNoob at 3:23 PM, January 5th (Tuesday)]

If you can stay somewhere else part of the time, do it. You need physical distance from this witch. Make it clear that you will be returning to the home periodically and unannounced, and she better not bring another man around the house or all hell will break loose. You will be checking with the children. Limit all communications to the division of property and the children. Tell her in no uncertain terms that you are divorcing her and that there is no turning back. That you expect that she does not bring men around the house but that she can go screw anyone she wants somewhere else. Tell her that you want to move the process along as quickly as possible so that you can begin your new life with her not in it. Go find female companionship, if possible, just to talk. You owe your WW nothing and make that clear to her. Tell her you have moved on and don't give a rat's ass about her anymore.

Dan:

I hope when you read her last text you get a clearer picture of your WW. Her wedding vows to you and her commitment to her M were only valid as long as she was happy. Once she decided unilaterally that there was something missing from your M, she had no compunction about cheating on you. It is supremely selfish. Did she ever mention to you that she only would be faithful as long as she was happy. As long as there was nothing missing from your M. This is such cliche rationalizing immoral behavior. “I know my cheating hurts you but it was worth it because I realized I need something different.” Really! Gee, wouldn’t marriages be interesting if we could all just unilaterally decide that we are not happy and need to cheat to find ourselves. The biggest takeaway from this is she is only committed to herself. You and your kids don’t matter. Supremely selfish. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 6:22 PM, January 5th (Tuesday)]