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I'm so sorry, SB. Please take care of yourself. I think it's really important that you find an IC, one that specializes in infidelity. You need someone to talk to. Many counselors will have sessions by phone or online.

Big big hugs.

Believe it or not, I just feel better knowing I'm not alone in the "broken NC" category. It hurts so much and honestly, I'm not even sure why given I've resigned myself to that fact, yet here I am, hurting from finding out.

To answer a few questions, WH does not have a visa that allows him to work, while I do. He could look into changing that but at this time, he is not allowed to work here legally. I would also not say he was idle all this time. This house refurb is a very big project and he is doing almost 90% of the work on his own - I'm talking roofing, remodeling almost every room and landscaping. He is far from lazy so he is not what I would call idle but obviously, he can make his own schedule and do what he likes. Not excusing him for anything, I'm just being factual.

I did not see a reply back to her from him when she hoped they could remain friends. It was the last message I saw. i haven't revisited their conversation and have no immediate plans to do that. I'm too raw right now.

I did reach out to WH. I told him we can talk tomorrow after work for me. He can come to my office and we can go someplace nearby from there. We need to talk. I feel ready now. I can't keep on like this. I don't know where it's heading but I can't stay stuck here in this miserable place and not get things off my chest.

I know I'll get no sleep tonight but I'm gonna try. Hot bath, meditation music and a sleep aid. Wish me luck.

Thank you all for getting me through this crappy day. You are all lifesavers.

SpeedBump sorry the hits keep coming.

Not all of us men are so freaking stupid that we have to be told what to do in order to repair the damage we've done and boundaries we need to put in place and more importantly grasping and TRULY UNDERSTANDING the difference between right and wrong.

Also there's many of us who don't go around wreaking havoc and causing trouble when we have idle time on our hand. I don't think that's a gender problem (nor is cheating and breaking your vows).

Only you get to decide if this H of yours is worth the gift of attempting R. He's not a child.....he's a grown ass man and you shouldn't have to teach him (or convince him) how to be a safe partner for you.

You mention to him that being in contact with her still would be a roadblock moving forward and he says he has but wants to explain. Sounds like an attempt to manipulate the situation.

SpeedBump, how long did you date this man before you married him?

You said his previous W was very rarely mentioned. Just curious how much of his past do you know? Do you know his friends from back in the day? Do you know about other relationships besides his W (and how they ended)? How well do you know his family?

Just curious how well you really know this guy?

Please continue to take care of yourself even though it gets harder and harder to do with the additional hits. The last thing you need is to wind up back in the hospital (or something worse).

Good luck. Let him do most of the talking. Use silence wisely, it’s your ally. 😊

Hi speed bump I also have followed the thread and not commented yet. It's really early in the process to make any decisions if you don't know what you want.

You (unfortunately) saw everything your WS and the AP were saying and doing in real time, which is awful. Most of us haven't had to live that. But I have found enough pieces of things my husband and his AP were saying and doing to know that some of it was pretty awful- my username is a book character they compared me to. They never intended for me to know. We are likely to R, but had had a strong M before the As. People in the midst of an affair do and say pretty shitty things that they later regret and never would have said if they had known anyone would know. Not an excuse, but I think that if your relationship had been a good one and you aren't sure you want to D, what is happening happens alot and some people R and some people D, but either way I think there will likely still be some bumps.

Good Luck tomorrow Speedbump, and I agree with Edie. Let him do most of the talking. At least initially.

How did the two of you decide you would work and he would repair the house? Is that an interest he has? How long have you lived there? Who IS the neighbor?

Everyone here wants their ws to answer “why” but the truth is because they wanted to. Your next, and most important, question is why he enjoyed making sport of you. That really is a sickness. Now he has tainted the same house he put so much work in.

I think there might be some misunderstanding of what I said about men and free time. Good, decent, men find positive things to do. The other ones do not. There are too many sad men posting on here for me to paint them with such a broad brush. What I mean is that free time for most trustworthy men is to be used accordingly. People like your husband find a neighbor and the rest is history. I just think our bodies are built for action and we choose being busy one way or another.

Speedbump,

We are not you. You decide what is acceptable to you and what is not. Some can R after a lot of abuse, some can’t R no matter what. Lay down your rules. Then follow your plan. Don’t accept what you can’t accept. What is a deal breaker to you? You are in control and you decide.

I have my own opinion of your WH but I’m not you. Please remember that your WH is a grown adult and he makes his own decisions and he’s responsible for his actions. There are no excuses for him. He’s not a puppy dog that needs to be house broken and kept busy. He’s 100% responsible for his action and the AP is not very important.

You will get out of infidelity throught R or D. Divocillation is not a good plan.

If you want to R first fine, but don’t deviate from what is acceptable or not for you. You are getting out of infidelity with or without him.

If you want to D, hey, he had it coming

P.s. for a bit of twisted humor, ask your WH if the found the hidden cameras yet

Hi speedbump,

All things considered you are doing very well.

The reply to her message could have been in person. You'll never know the extent of their contact. Just because it isn't in iphone messages doesn't mean it didn't occur.

You do not have to meet him now, nor do you have to meet him ever again unless it's with lawyers and judges present. Remember this. He doesn't have a right to demand to meet with you, and you don't have to offer it. Everything about divorcing him can be done without a private face-to-face.

You can if you want to of course, and decide that it is the right thing at this moment in time.

You can also change your mind, all the way up to the last minute. You are in control. Remember that.

Prepare yourself that seeing him could put you into a deep downward spiral emotionally. This could be very bad for your mental health. I'm not recommending to go or not go to meet him, but I want you to be very ready to have this be devastating. What is your plan for self-care after the meeting? Do you have someone you can call to decompress and talk to?

In all likelihood he will try to manipulate you. Probably you won't see the manipulation right away, and you might feel badly about yourself after it sinks in. Crying on his part could be genuine, or a manipulation. It might be hard to tell right away.

He's a liar and a trickster. Don't believe anything he tells you. Whether that is an explanation about what was or is going on, or about his feelings or intentions, you have to take it as untrustworthy from the beginning.

My WH, when I revealed that I knew the extent of his depravity, became threatening and very scary. I wasn't ready for that. I literally ran away from a restaurant one time, and hid from him. I cut between buildings, and walked 2 miles in heels to get back to my own car.

Because your health has been impacted by all of this, I'm worried about your physical safety in the event that you have to deal with him turning on you, or that you simply fall apart or become sickened again.

I suggest that you identify your "out" for this in-person meeting, and you meet in a public place so that if you start feeling intense emotions such as anger, rage, sorrow, or confusion, or you start having concerns about his behavior, you can literally escape from the situation. Some people prefer to meet in restaurants, the parking lot of a police station, a library, or other place where people can come to help you if needed. Figure out where you will park and make it visible to others, so that he can't corner you as you try to leave. Do not let him in your car, and don't get in his.

If you can't figure out how to keep yourself safe physically, then perhaps consider meeting by skype instead of in person. With skype you can end the conversation with a single click, and get immediate relief from seeing and hearing him.

PROTECT YOURSELF. That means physically as well as emotionally.

Aww, SB, I am sad. I was so hoping....

but Chamomile Tea is spot on as usual and I agree with everything she said.

Hi Speedbump

I've been following, feeling your pain and silently supporting you. I wanted to comment when I felt that others were trying to say your situation was so much worst than others because of the cruel games. I didn't see it that way. Infidelity is the cruelest of games and I don't think yours was especially worse. Just my honest opinion.

I'm commenting now just to share my experience. My WH broke NC at 8 weeks after seeing me suffer, struggle at work (I'm a physician who spends the bulk of my time scanning mammograms for subtle signs of cancer), sleep less than 4 hours a night for 2 months and drop 20lbs. I just could not comprehend how he could possibly break his promisse to me after I literally spelled out exactly what he needed to do to have a chance for R. When I caught him that night, he said he just wanted to explain himself in person (she confirmed his story). That was his rock bottom and he hasn't had contact with the OW or a sip of alcohol since- over 16 months now. Just saying all is not necessarily lost.

Hugs to you. You will get through it and be fine either way.

When you talk with him be very guarded.

This man may want to talk with you because he's been able to rely on his charm to negate his bad behavior in front of you; he's been able to shift the blame to you for seeing what you were seeing that wasn't really what you were seeing (in other words, classic crazy-making crap). He's thinking if "I can just explain", you can't help but see how reasonable he's being.

I would want to know what he's done to get the house up for sale - the one simple request you made at the beginning of your confrontation with him. If he's expecting you to be pacified with words, he's in for a rude awakening. Any excuse to delay means he's expecting you to go back there and be in the same environment that put you in the hospital.

Just a bit from my experience: I didn't let my husband explain. He tried to tell me the OW was a really nice person. He wanted closure. He was worried about her. He wanted. He wanted. He wanted. I had been his meal ticket for 20 years, while he pursued self-employment (and online relationships). He didn't adhere to no contact in the beginning either. I confronted him on his need to feel good about himself by coming to some damsel in distress bullship that diminished him in my eyes. And my eyes were the only ones that counted for me. I was hard core cold to him for several months. He hates that I read on SI to this day - and it's been almost 6 years since D Day. I've told him this is a life long journey; I'm not "over it". I'm just not beyond angry at him anymore. I've told him that I'm a life long investment that he dropped the stock price to a deficit by cheating me out of 20 years of his income on a job as well as cheating with his online activities. The stock price is no longer in the red, but it's not where it could have been, and that needs to be his focus, not my online reading.

SB. You have lots of good thoughts from this thread to put to good use in your initial conversation with him.

Don’t let him rely on excuses. Only admissions of awful choices should be tolerated.

Ask for exactly what you believe you need and must see to even Consider an attempt at R.

Starting with requesting a written timeline and a draft plan for recovery is a good start as requirements for a next meeting. Trust your instincts, they’ve been solid so far.

As others have said, take it slow and mostly listen.

Sending you thoughts of strength.

Stevesn - I do keep reading over the lists you have sent me and find all I really need to get from him. I will keep it even simpler and will, for this first meeting, only be looking for him accepting full responsibility for what has happened. It's all just simple right now. Admit every last problem is because of him. I hope he can live up to that simple expectation. I won't give him any rope to either hang or save himself. I'm just listening.

Keep you posted.

Good luck SB, we are all rooting for you.

If you have not met yet then tell him to start at the beginning and leave nothing out. Then just be quiet. He will either accept responsibility or he will make excuses. He has the continue to lie or to man up. Good luck.

Good luck on your meeting today. Keeping you in my thoughts.

F1

(((((((((((((Speedy)))))))))))))))))))))))

I'd tell him you know more than he thinks you do and this is his ONE opportunity to tell all.

And then just look at him. Use silence.

Use this time not to tell him how you feel or anything about you, but to LISTEN.

Thinking of you today.

Best wishes, SpeedBump. Given the time change you've probably met with him already. I hope it wasn't too difficult for you.