SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There is no winning here.

Define what sexy is and I'm sure if you ask that to ten men you may get ten different answers!

My WH is an Ass man so anything that's right in the ass will get him hard.

Another guy I know is strictly a boob guy. Any bit of cleavage will set him off. But tight pants won't.

I woman dresses completely covered and she's a target.

I woman walks down the road half naked. Target.

Rape itself is about control and power. Not how sexy the victim is.

It doesn't matter what I wear. NO one..NO ONE has any right to invade my space, touch me or harrass me. The man who slaps my ass Will have a broken hand and I'll gladly call the cops!

I woman dresses completely covered and she's a target.

I woman walks down the road half naked. Target.

This is true, but it's not about absolutes here. Women of course get harassed wearing a completely modest outfit. But can we at least agree that the woman wearing a bikini into the grocery store is going to face a lot more stares/gawks and perhaps even escalating to "hey sexy" than the woman wearing a more modest outfit? I feel like even that is up for discussion here, which, to me at least, seems completely counter to my own personal experience. Clothes matter, wearing a t-shirt with a certain wildly offensive 3 letters into a black neighborhood is much more likely to wind up in something bad happen to me than wearing a different shirt into the same area. Yes, I'm a target just strolling into that neighborhood, but I can certainly minimize my chances of something bad happening by selecting my clothes to make sure I'm sending a message that's "acceptable" for the environment rather than deciding to wear one that's nearly always going to provoke a reaction in other people.

It doesn't matter what I wear. NO one..NO ONE has any right to invade my space, touch me or harrass me. The man who slaps my ass Will have a broken hand and I'll gladly call the cops!

Good, as well you should. The moment someone touches you, it's gone to a totally different place and then, tasers, guns, and the police are completely reasonable responses. But you can help avoid any of those responses by selecting clothing that's less likely to cause that sort of action. Should you have to? No, of course not. But that is not the world that we live in. And it's NOT just specific to women (although, I concede, it's likely worse for women), men have exactly the same restrictions on what we wear and when we wear it.

"The discussion is about the attention you get!"

Actually, the OP was if we, not any or every woman, dressed for external validation. Idc if what I wear draws attention I don't even notice. Too busy doing my own thing to worry about what random strangers are doing or thinking.

Why are you so concerned with other people? Why are you so offended by someone else's body? Because she doesn't meet your standard of beauty? Can you extend acceptance instead of judgement? Everyone is just doing the best she can at the moment.

"I don't recall anyone saying "don't wear this"

Hirt very clearly said to stop dressing in a way that offends her.

And, yeah, it was very clear what she said about what a woman is wearing and being sexually assaulted. If we would all just dress appropriately (whatever that means), we wouldn't get our ashes slapped or be taped. Something is seriously wrong with that.

Zugzwang, why are you so uncomfortable with what your niece is wearing? Does it excite you? Your solution is for another person to change her behavior so that you feel ok. But, when we women on here say, "Hey, guys, how about you change your behavior so we don't have to be scared for our lives every time we go out?" We're told, "Too bad. That's just a fact of life."

" Too busy doing my own thing to worry about what random strangers are doing or thinking."

Gawd, preach! I'm going to wear yoga pants to the grocery store today and to run other errands and likely no one will notice nor will i give a flying fuck.

RIO, I can't seem to copy to quote you, but wrt your comment about dressing a certain way to help avoid assault, have you not read any of the comments by women saying that it does not matter what we wear? A rapist is going to rape no matter what we wear. Elderly women get raped. Do you suppose their housecoats were too revealing? Little boys get raped. Do you think their dungarees and truck tshirts were just too much fro some perverted man to resist?

I stopped reading your posts mostly because they are just ridiculous. I skim them a little

I don't know if you truly believe what you are saying, or if you just like to talk and argue a point.

Serial posting. Sorry.

I went to a thing at a friend's house yesterday. It was all women. We were all wearing leggings, yoga pants, ot joggers, even the 70 or 80 year old woman. No men there. Who were we trying to impress? Who were we trying to get sexual attention from? I'm pretty sure no one there is gay. All either were or are married to men.

Hurt, you said,

"Actually if you get sexual harassed or worse raped ... I bet you would reconsider what you wear... "

The implication here is that what one wears somehow contributes to whether or not they will be sexually assaulted. It puts responsibility and blame on the victim. The old, "Well, if she hadn't been wearing that..." So, yeah, don't try to backtrack now.

You also said,

"I wish a guy would just walk up and slap 👋 y’alls ass because maybe then y’all learn some decorum!"

So, here, you are advocating for sexual assault so that women will learn their place.

RIO, here is where we were told what to wear.

"Leggings are just as bad. I’m in the grocery store or shopping mall and some women are walking around in leggings or yoga pants with their asses jiggling and cellulite!!

Please just stop 🛑"

ETA to add more quotes because I couldn't do it all at one time.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 10:49 AM, April 7th (Sunday)]

But, when we women on here say, "Hey, guys, how about you change your behavior so we don't have to be scared for our lives every time we go out?" We're told, "Too bad. That's just a fact of life."

Too bad, it's just a fact of life. I'm sorry to drop it on you like that, but it is. And much of what I'm trying to tell you, it's a fact of life for ME too! I have to "change my behavior" when I go out to make myself as "least interesting" a target possible to give myself the absolute best possible chance of getting home in one piece. Now, I can and do freely admit that it may be worse for women, you may have to be even more careful than I am when you go out. But it's not like I can wear whatever the hell I want either, I need to be careful, make sure my clothes are appropriate for where I'm going and be on the lookout and the offensive, if need be, should something go sideways. Sure, it would be nice if NONE of us had to deal with this, if I could wear just 1 sock when I go to the grocery store instead of all these clothes because my "sock" shows off better who I am inside. I can't. It just doesn't work that way. Not for you, and not for me either.

RIO, I can't seem to copy to quote you, but wrt your comment about dressing a certain way to help avoid assault, have you not read any of the comments by women saying that it does not matter what we wear? A rapist is going to rape no matter what we wear. Elderly women get raped. Do you suppose their housecoats were too revealing? Little boys get raped. Do you think their dungarees and truck tshirts were just too much fro some perverted man to resist?

And have you not heard the men (and a lot of women too, thank you) saying "It does matter" and the way people react to you is influenced by your clothing? Let's take another example, this one all men. Let's say I'm thrown in prison for making unwelcome comments on SI. When I get there, I already know it's a "rape culture" and I have two choices. I can roll in there and and use a sharpie to put a racially offensive slur across my forehead, or I can try to keep a low profile and try to fit in with the crowd at much as possible. Which one you think is more likely to land me a beating and/or rape? I'm pretty sure the first, even though it might be totally acceptable to paint myself with racial slurs, if I do so, I stand a much better statistical chance of winding up really hurt or killed than if I look around and try to alter my behavior for the environment that I'm in. And if I get the shit whipped out of me for walking around like that, well, guess what? While the people doing the beating are CLEARLY in the wrong here, I could have prevented it, perhaps, by not being so blind to the environment that I'm in. And I have two choices, I can chastise the other prisoners and tell them "you shouldn't act like that", or, I can change my behavior to minimize my chances of being attacked. One of those strategies is going to be FAR more effective than the other.

Especially when we take this to the extreme (rape); people who do that are violent criminals. All the chastising and "let her be her" talk in the world is going to do jack s**t when it comes to people who are willing to do that. While I think that shaming men for staring at a pair of yoga pants might have some effect, trying to shame a rapist will be utterly ineffective. The ONLY thing that will work is personal self-awareness and self-protection. That's the end of the list. But this thread isn't about rapists, it's about people making snide comments at the grocery store, something we've been told happens every time some women go there. And that behavior can be altered because, more than likely, these aren't rapists, they are guys with a lack of the social filter they should have. Give them less to look at/talk about, they will very likely shut up.

Who were we trying to impress?

If I had to guess I'd say "each other" and without sexual intent.

RIO, here is where we were told what to wear.

"Leggings are just as bad. I’m in the grocery store or shopping mall and some women are walking around in leggings or yoga pants with their asses jiggling and cellulite!!

Please just stop 🛑"

IIRC, that was a woman who posted that, not a man. And plenty of women have posted in here that "it's not that hard to figure this out".

[This message edited by Rideitout at 11:04 AM, April 7th (Sunday)]

Dee

you want to feel confident and good?

Great that’s Awesome... but why do you have to look sexy?

Because those shoes are the freakin' bomb and I like the way they make my legs look. What's the difference between me looking good and looking sexy? My WH used to find me dressed professionally more sexy than me in my shorts doing yardwork, but there's a guy in the neighborhood who apparently thinks I look sexy all dirty holding a chainsaw in clothing I don't mind getting messed up. So what is sexy?

Yes, when I go out dressed well and yes, wearing those kick-ass shoes, some guy might find me physically attractive. When I'm home all dirty and sweaty, some guy might find me physically attractive.

Is the concept of looking good to myself beyond comprehension?

RIO, I'm going to try to answer all of your points. I'll start with the car thing and relate it to the dress thing. My absolute no question about it FAVORITE car in the world is a C3 Corvette. I own one. It is hot as fuck to me. I look at it and it makes me feel joy. I get inside and smell that classic car smell of old glue and upholstery, and I feel like everything is right with the world. I run my hand along the sexy curves of that car and I feel like it embodies pure beauty and badassery all at once. I love that snarl they seem to have. I start that engine and that old V8 VROOM gives me a huge smile no matter what mood I was in before I took out those keys. I take the t-tops off and cruise down the road and I'm euphoric. I do not know why I love this car so much. I have no rational explanation for it. The lines of it, the feel of it is worth more to me than any Ferrari. Something about that car is part of my soul.

When I drive it, I get lots and lots and lots of attention because the car is damned sexy. It's gorgeous. It is in incredible condition. It could be taken to a car show without shame. All original everything. You might look at me driving that car with the tops off and my blonde hair blowing in the wind and think "look at that showoff whore. She thinks she's special because she's got an old car."

Does it make me happy when people look at my Vette and smile? Does it make me laugh with joy when a child gapes when I turn the headlights on and the lights pop up like eyes out of the hood? Hell yes. You know what that joy feels like to me? It feels like "I KNOW, RIGHT??? Isn't this the best and coolest car?" Like I'm sharing a moment. It's not pride of ownership. It isn't "Yeah, isn't MY car the coolest?".

There are other cars that people think are way better than my Vette. It isn't the most expensive sports car that one can buy. It isn't all that expensive unless you count pretty regular maintenance. Classic Corvettes do constantly have issues. But there is something about that car that gives me life and a lot of it is how it looks. It's like they said "let's make a car for Dee" and that's what came out of the factory.

Does it give me joy if no one but me ever sees it? OMG yes. If by some magic everyone else saw this car as a Mazda3 (that's my other car, I am not judging, lol) and found it unremarkable, then okay. I still want that car every bit as much and would still get so much joy driving it around. Let's say the Vette is the dress that you're talking about. If I wore it and no one saw it, I'd still be like "hell yes" whenever I passed a mirror. Would that joy be even more if I wore that dress out with a friend and said "OMG, check this dress out! What do you think?" and she says "OMG, where did you get that?? You look so good in it!" Yes, that would increase the joy because I'd be sharing something that gave me joy with another person. Like that feeling when a kid is blown away by the headlights of my car popping up and down, you know?

Humans relate to and with one another. We do not live in bubbles. We like to share things that make us happy and if we're talking about me looking "sexy" when I went out recently, most of what was fun about that was my girlfriend saying "OMG I love those shoes!!! Where did you get them?".

I feel the most authentically "me" when I'm driving my Corvette and wearing something that makes me feel good about myself. It has absolutely positively nothing to do with obtaining anyone's penis. Know what I have to do to obtain a penis? Find some random dude and ask for it. There it is. Done. It is way too easy to get laid as a woman for that to be our main motivation in every move we make.

Plus, this whole thread makes me want to take my handgun out and walk around with yoga pants on shooting people who try to touch me. To make the world a better place, you know. Actually, give me a choice between dressing to keep myself "safe" by never giving anyone reason to have a sexual thought and dressing how I want and just shooting people who decide that's reason to violate me, I choose shooting people.

But we all know, looking attractive is not the problem when it comes to sexual assault and harrassment. Ask all of those women in burkhas still getting raped and groped. Think of all the kids who are molested. Reflect on all the elderly women in their housedresses who get raped. The unconscious women in long-term care facilities who pop up pregnant. Did someone put the bright red hospital gowns on those women on the wrong day or something?

Lack of respect and empathy are the problem.

Do you know want to know what I will never be able to understand and can't even look at most of the time because it grosses me out? That's right, people wearing FLIP FLOPS.

OMG! This is an equal opportunity issue because both men and women seem to be wearing FLIP FLOPS in stores, restaurants, just anywhere they damn well please and nobody does anything about it.

When are these people going to realize that not everybody wants to see their damn, nasty feet and toes in some horrible, poor excuse of a shoe. That even tho they have no problem sharing their fromunda cheese to the world, there are those of us who want to call in a hazmat team. While we may be a minority group, a few people are disgusted and even will gag, when exposed to such ugliness.

For the money that is spent on a pair of Birkenstocks, they could own 2 or 3 pairs of Converse, in different colors, I might add. (Really cute colors by the way.) If it is about the comfort, may I introduce something called an Ugg, and

no socks required.

But if they must insist on exposing me to their foot funk, the least they could do is learn how to use a pair of toenail clippers. Also, I guess it would be too much to ask of them to use a sugar scrub every now and then. I mean, come on, how could they not know that a loofah sponge and peppermint cream would do wonders on that dried out, cracked out, part of the foot, they call their heel.

Maybe too much work for them? Then how about a little thing called a PEDICURE. That's right, you can actually pay someone to take care of all the horror below your ankles.

Please explain to me what kind of statement these Flip Flop wearing, feet flashers are trying to make? Are they "sticking it to the man" or giving society a big FU or maybe trying to skirt the "no shoes, no shirt, no service" law? Are they just "bucking the system" or is it an attempt at total Anarchy? Do they really think that slipping their size large feet onto a size medium Flip Flop, leaving their still dried out, cracked out heel hanging off the back makes them some kind of a free thinking, rebel without a cause?

It is exactly this kind of devil may care attitude that has brought us business casual, casual Friday and wearing Steelers shit in Brown's territory! (Sorry, but walking around and looking like a bumblebee is just wrong on so many levels.)

Well, I say hell with them. If they can be all willy nilly with their ideas of proper foot wear and force me to shield my eyes to all the horror that is wrong with feet, then I will be wearing white after Labor day, plaid with whatever I want and my cowboy boots anytime I damn well please. (DD is getting married this year and I will be rockin a pair of rhinestone cowboy boots with my formal dress.)

This was brought to you by FollowtheRiver's sense of humor, her need to try and break the tension during troubled times and because it is a beautiful Sunday. If you are offended or find this inappropriate, then you are probably a foot flashing, devil without a cause, Flip Flop wearer who needs a pedicure. Peace to all. Now back to our regular scheduled programming.

^

I will be wearing white after Labor day, plaid with whatever I want and my cowboy boots anytime I damn well please.

This is my whole purpose in owning mycowboy boots. They go from field to boardroom with just a little dusting and some polish. Jeans or 3-piece suit, doesn't matter. Though I haven't yet worn them with shorts...

*cheers Dee, as usual*

*looks guiltily down at flip flops*

My only post to this thread cuz I know that I personally have no business here.

Does it make me happy when people look at my Vette and smile? Does it make me laugh with joy when a child gapes when I turn the headlights on and the lights pop up like eyes out of the hood? Hell yes. You know what that joy feels like to me? It feels like "I KNOW, RIGHT??? Isn't this the best and coolest car?" Like I'm sharing a moment. It's not pride of ownership. It isn't "Yeah, isn't MY car the coolest?".

There are other cars that people think are way better than my Vette. It isn't the most expensive sports car that one can buy. It isn't all that expensive unless you count pretty regular maintenance. Classic Corvettes do constantly have issues. But there is something about that car that gives me life and a lot of it is how it looks. It's like they said "let's make a car for Dee" and that's what came out of the factory.

But this^^^ is absolutely the best thing I've read all day. Put a smile on my face. And particularly felt this...

It's like they said "let's make a car for Dee" and that's what came out of the factory.

FollowtheRiver, I got a pedicure last week in hopes that it gets warm enough for sandals.

And I am waiting for my Bermuda length yoga pants to arrive

Does it make me happy when people look at my Vette and smile? Does it make me laugh with joy when a child gapes when I turn the headlights on and the lights pop up like eyes out of the hood? Hell yes. You know what that joy feels like to me? It feels like "I KNOW, RIGHT??? Isn't this the best and coolest car?" Like I'm sharing a moment. It's not pride of ownership. It isn't "Yeah, isn't MY car the coolest?".

But it doesn't make you happy when men are "impressed" (the topic of this thread) with what you are wearing and show it with a 2nd glance/look/etc?

I get it, drive a cool car, get attention. May be wanted, may not be wanted, but, your gonna get attention.

Where it all falls apart for me is "wear yoga pants to the grocery store" (or much less, we're using them as a proxy here, I see girls in the grocery store in a sports bra sometimes, so, it can get a lot more sexual and not violate any social norms) and get mad when I get attention. Or mad when people "gapes when I turn the headlights on". Well, what do you expect, your driving a sexy car and/or have a sexy body. Thing is, there's no way to turn down the sexy on an old Corvette, there are a lot of ways to dial it back when you dress, but, IMHO, the analogy is reasonable.

When you drive something people want to see/look at, or when you dress in a way that people want to see/look at, you can't get mad when people do, in fact, see/look at it/you. You might be in the Vette driving to the D attorney's office, having the worst day of your life and thinking "I hope everyone just leaves me alone today" and, there he is, RIO, hanging his head out the window to get a better look at your car (yeah, that would probably be me). You're going to get mad at me today or feel violated today because you "just trying to drive the car" where tomorrow might be a great day and you love the attention. How in the heck am I supposed to know if this is "show off the Vette day" or "leave me alone, just going to Home Depot to get some paint day". That's an unreasonable standard, IMHO, sometimes you drive the Vette and love the attention, other times you get angry about it, but EVERY time you drive it you're gonna get attention. So, IMHO, the anger is misplaced, your mad at someone for noticing something that you would be happy to have noticed tomorrow, or, in the case of clothes, your mad because the deli guy notices but then also mad/upset when the guy who's a body double for Brad Pitt in the product isle doesn't notice? There is no way for other people to read your mind, is the wearing booty shorts because she's trying to look sexy, just got done at the gym, or her house just burned down and this is all the has left.. I don't know, but I know I think women look pretty dressed like that and it's hard not to at least take a glance. And, yes, if I weren't married and dating, I might approach you in the off chance that the outfit was "to look pretty and see if anyone notices" and strike up a conversation. And I guess I'd then be the "harasser in isle 12". :)

This was brought to you by FollowtheRiver's sense of humor

Thank you for the laugh! You've got a nice comedic flare.