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Sisoon,

yes those type of things. Also when I ask her a question, it may stir up a memory of something she had not told me. Something that is both unflattering to her and is sure to hurt me. Something I would never know about, but she chooses to tell me.

Sorry, I don't know what happened with the double post. One of these days I will have to come into the 21st century

Hi Achilles,

I think that the weekly talks are a good idea, and very good vehicle for helping your wife to become more honest and authentic about who she is, including her flaws and imperfections. I believe that is a journey/transition that is very important for your wife to make, and perhaps it is one that she has needed to make since before she met you.

I am sure that the process of opening up is helping your wife to feel less wound up and tense. That is good, because it will reduce the hair trigger reaction that has flared up a few times when your discussions have ended up as arguments.

I believe that there is the potential for the dynamic between you and your wife to change in a positive way if she finally - at long last – investigates and disables the elements within her that made her vulnerable to seeking/finding validation/release in the affair.

It seems to me that the life-cycle of her relationship to that vulnerability has been to ignore it/contain it for many years. To succeed in the eyes of her parents in spite of it. Then to give in to it (the affair). However, she has never dealt with it/attacked it with a view to killing it.

That is the process your wife seems to be beginning, and that is a good thing for both of you. Your weekly talks are helping that process, and you can see the effect they are having on your wife. I am sorry for how hard it must be for you to hear some of the revelations, but it is crucial for your wife to take ownership of them by confessing them.

What is happening is that deceit that spoilt the past four years and enabled the affair is being destroyed, one revelation at a time, and a state of honesty is being rebuilt between you. It is a tough process for you to go through, but it is definitely worth it. The deceit is like a boil that needs to be drained if healing and progress is going to be made.

Take heart; there will be a point where the revelations are done, and the deceit is gone. There will be a level of honesty between you that has not existed for years. That is worth working for.

As I was writing this post, I wrote a lot more that was basically informed guesswork about the dynamic between you and your wife, and her relationship with herself, but I realized that that was all just conjecture. What I am hoping for both of you is that your wife will work through her issues in her IC, and that as that changes her, the foundations for a new stage of your relationship with her can be laid down.

My advice to you would be to continue with what you are doing. You are already focusing on how genuine your wife’s efforts are, so it is going to be hard for her to fool you. Do your best to stay ‘on the fence’ and neutral, because that is what you need to ensure that you do not kid yourself that your wife is making more progress than she is.

Keep doing what you are doing, and see how it goes, Achilles.

M1965,

One thing I have noticed about my wife is she is more insightful.

It seems to me that the life-cycle of her relationship to that vulnerability has been to ignore it/contain it for many years. To succeed in the eyes of her parents in spite of it. Then to give in to it (the affair). However, she has never dealt with it/attacked it with a view to killing it.

I believe this to be true. She told me the other day that every year in October her stress and anxiety level would rise as that is when her abuse started. She realized that she had stopped feeling that way, as if it wasn't acknowledged, it didn't then affect her. She thinks this may have happened the year before the affair started.

She also told me that it was a relief to give me the truth as there were no more secrets or hiding. She then said something I thought was interesting. She said this was probably the hardest time for me as she had basically transferred the burden of the affair to me.

One thing that worries me though is that she says she understands, after self reflection, what allowed her to have the affair. That sounds great, but how do you come to that conclusion in such a short time and with basically no help? I get that realizing she never fully dealt with her abuse issue, but how is that resolved?

Anyway, I am trying to remain neutral so I will not be fooled.

A question for anyone. I know everyone says they always affair down, but why does it bother me so much? I'm no model, but this guy is completely unimpressive in every sense.

Because you're being competitive. It's not applicable and therefore not a characteristic that will serve you in this situation.

But don't we compete in everything? we compete for mates, jobs, in sports. Everything is a competition

I’m hoping that by saying she has figured things out via self reflection she is not trying to simply get out of doing IC. That would be a bad choice. IC is self reflection multiplied exponentially. She needs that.

If you don’t mind me asking, what does she do to acknowledge and try to soothe the pain she has caused you. Can you feel at all an understanding of that.

And how does she make you feel like you’re not Plan B, and that you are better than the other man. If you truly are her partner for the rest of her life she should never have put you in competition with anyone else.

Lastly, how does she make you feel special. So many things that were special between you sheneasily have to another. So what ways can she show you that you are 1000 times to her what he ever was.

These are all important things she must do in order for you both to find happiness again in the relationship.

A question for anyone. I know everyone says they always affair down, but why does it bother me so much? I'm no model, but this guy is completely unimpressive in every sense.

Do you think you'd feel better if he was more impressive than you in every way? Of course not. The reality is that we cannot stop wondering what the WS "saw" in this other person because we feel jealous on some level (defined as "having something we want," not to be confused with envy which we do not feel). They had our spouse's attention, which we are supposed to own. It's normal to feel competitive, but that doesn't make it helpful or productive. It's a distraction, so force your brain off the topic.

It's not applicable and therefore not a characteristic that will serve you in this situation.

It's not applicable in an affair for many reasons, namely that the AP didn't take or steal attention per se, attention that belonged to the BS. The WS simply wanted more attention from wherever they could get it. Just 'more,' not 'instead of,' which makes this about a bottomless pit need in the WS. It is not about "BS wasn't cutting it so I found AP." That would be BS vs. AP. No, it's about "I feel so bad about me or life even though BS is throwing me as much affirmation as possible. I still feel so empty. But when I get more affirmation from AP, I feel better about myself." That is WS vs. Self. You are not even in the equation, so put all of your effort into reminding yourself of this truth and no effort into thinking of AP. He could have been anyone available to throw some kibble attention at your WW while she was feeling Less Than in life. She didn't "choose him" for that job. Lol. There aren't that many scumbags applying.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:47 AM, June 9th (Tuesday)]

Did she tell you what her reasoning is? Is IC still in the works?

You're right to be skeptical. There's a big difference between identifying a problem and solving it. If her reasons why really do have to do with abuse or even if it's more of the run-of-the-mill need for external validation variety, your WW does need an IC to fix those issues and prevent future As. She doesn't have the tools to do it herself. Most people don't. Even counselors themselves many of which go to some form of therapy for their own issues.

I’m hoping that by saying she has figured things out via self reflection she is not trying to simply get out of doing IC.

No, she knows that is a requirement for me. What I worry about is if she thinks she has it figured out, she won't fully explore all aspects with her therapist.

If you don’t mind me asking, what does she do to acknowledge and try to soothe the pain she has caused you.

She constantly seeks to reassure me. Lots of small things. One thing that comes to mind, that I look forward to, is everyday when she gets to work, she texts me a version of "good morning, I love you and am thinking about you." Makes me feel good.

And how does she make you feel like you’re not Plan B, and that you are better than the other man.

I was never plan B. She was never going to leave me for him or anyone else. She needed the validation that he provided. I don't know if I am explaining it right, but I was plan A with an asterix.

They had our spouse's attention,

My wife used that word a lot in describing the affair. She felt she had lost my attention, she felt she had his attention.

No, it's about "I feel so bad about me or life even though BS is throwing me as much affirmation as possible. I still feel so empty. But when I get more affirmation from AP, I feel better about myself." That is WS vs. Self.

That, I think, sums her situation up concisely. The problem is me dealing with it. I struggle with that.

Did she tell you what her reasoning is?

She believes her unresolved issues with her abuse were the cause. I agree, as I lived with the symptoms for a long time. She wanted to believe that it didn't affect her, I guess I kind of understand.

Hi Achilles,

You have had some good feedback about lots of point, but I wanted to chip in on this:

One thing that worries me though is that she says she understands, after self reflection, what allowed her to have the affair. That sounds great, but how do you come to that conclusion in such a short time and with basically no help? I get that realizing she never fully dealt with her abuse issue, but how is that resolved?

Your wife has had more than a year to think about what she did and why she did it, even if she did not talk to you about it. So she may have reached certain conclusions along the way.

However, even if her conclusions are sound, there is a good chance that they are not the only reasons. I hope that she will use her conclusions as the foundation for what she works on in IC, not start believing that she knows everything already.

And you are right; knowing the cause of a problem can help with devising a solution, but knowing the cause is not a solution in itself.

That said, it is all movement in the right direction, and I hope it represents a transition in your wife's thinking. Journeys like that are not made overnight, and there are no quick fixes in situations like this, but I am sure your wife knows that if she thinks she has had unresolved issues for decades.

[This message edited by M1965 at 1:54 AM, June 10th (Wednesday)]

so after movement in the right direction.

This morning she texted me that he showed up at her work to pick something up. She swears they didn't talk, but my mind went a hundred different directions. I know she will get tired of telling me he is there and hurting me and she will stop telling me. Then it is the slide back into the affair.

So I am sucked back into the black hole of the affair with only one way out.

Do I never get to rest?

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 12:50 PM, June 10th (Wednesday)]

I know it’s hard To find a new job right now.

But this is what we have been telling you.

She has to be honest and report to you if you are going to have any chance. But every time she does, you are going to realize she has just seen the man she cheated on you with.

And she will remember what they did together. And you will remember what they did together.

It doesn’t give each of you a chance to rebuild. Each time it takes away chunks of the new relationship you are trying to build together.

I’d have a discussion about it tonight. Ask her what’s more important to her, working at the place that she used to deceive you, or being with you.

Then discuss how you want to fix this problem. Even if they are no longer intimate in anyway way, they are still not NC. He needs to become the same to her as a person living in a Chinese fishing village, someone she will never be near or communicate with for the rest of her life.

How can she do that if they work together and can run into each other even once a month? Or when they hear each other on conference calls.

If it were me I would tell her that she needs to be applying and interviewing and if she can’t get a new job then she will have to quit the one she is in and you guys will have to figure out healthcare and finances.

Affairs have consequences. You can’t just pave over them if you are going to truly create a new Marriage.

I’m sorry.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 2:26 PM, June 10th (Wednesday)]

I get it.

Unfortunately I cannot halve my income and pay my mortgage and buy healthcare for the four of us.

I get affairs have consequences, I deal with them everyday.

I knew this would eventually happen. I just wasn't prepared for it when it did.

She was looking for a job just last night.

This morning she texted me that he showed up at her work to pick something up. She swears they didn't talk, but my mind went a hundred different directions. I know she will get tired of telling me he is there and hurting me and she will stop telling me. Then it is the slide back into the affair.

I think just be sure you're communicating this to her. From what I can tell here, the recovered and reconciled couples here get used to this kind of communication until it becomes second nature and/or not super meaningful/triggering--maybe not meaningful or triggering at all. It's important she knows that as hard as this is, it's incredibly important for the reconciliation process and your well-being in general that she tells you and that it is 1000% better than the alternative (not telling).

It's SO important that she not hide it from you, no matter what.

Ok. Then I would at the very least still have the discussion about how it makes you feel. That you need her to tell you when she has any kind of contact but ensure she understands that it will always be a negative force on rebuilding until she has rid him from your lives from good.

Can she widen her net on jobs. I don’t know if your profession is flexible on location, but perhaps a move to a new town is in order.

Just trying to think out of the box.

Complete NC is not the only important aspect of reconciliation, but it is definitely an important one.

I feel for you.

well it home hard today Just that, no more

It's great she told you. Keep sharing and talking and insisting she look for a job. Even if it takes a while, be committed to continuing the process so that this stress eventually ends.

Hi Achilles,

You are a solid, stand-up guy, and you are trying to do the best for all concerned, not just for yourself. That is commendable. I can certainly understand why financial circumstances make you feel like cannot arbitrarily pull the house down on top of everyone.

We are not privy to all the discussions that the two of you have, nor can we judge the tone of your wife's responses and actions, so sometimes we may miss the target when we post. The issue of working with the AP bothers lots of us because it upsets you. Heck, it would upset anyone.

I have to agree with the gist of several posts after your post about the AP showing up at the office.

It is not so much about getting your wife to quit immediately, with no job to go to, but more about explaining to her what her remaining in that job does to your emotional well-being, and the blockage it creates in the reconciliation process.

I am sorry that his reappearance was such a shock to the system. There are a lot of us here who can recall similar moments in our past, and what they did to us.

I hope that you have discussed that impact with your wife, and that she understands that you need her support and commitment to be no-contact with the AP for as long as she remains in that office.

I hope you are feeling a bit better, today, Achilles.

We have had numerous discussions about this and how it makes me feel. She seems to get it.

Telling me is a double edged sword. It stresses me out, but the alternative is worse.

She says she told me as soon as she saw him. She kept texting me until he left. She sounded desperate for me to respond. She seemed stressed. I know, no context in text messages.

Part of my problem is how, and how long, it took to get the truth. I don't think she is lying to me, but in the back of my mind I can't help but wonder if she is telling just part of the truth about him being there. Enough to make me believe she is telling the truth. I guess I will never know. The flip side is she didn't have to even tell me he was there, I would never know.