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IMO the offer of a 3 way is definitely wayward thinking. She is still in the fog. Absolutely do NOT go through with that and as others have said... those are NOT M friendly friends. They need to be cut off!

Her seemingly intense need for sex (even though it's with you) is troublesome, I think she needs to be following your lead. It makes me nervous that it seems to be her primary focus.

Hi Leon,

I am so sorry for what you are going thru..

Sometimes, the only thing we can do after a deep betrayal like this is have some extended time alone to soothe our wounds...Even when one is dealing with a remorseful spouse..

Those things that you mention are your accomplishments and distractions, please get back into them...One of the things I found so soothing was that both of my doggies made sure they were on my lap when I cried my eyes out...They sensed my sadness and were extra loving and cuddly..I am glad that your horse is the same way too..If you don't journal, tell your beloved horse those things that you only want God to know, that you wouldn't tell any human...

Good that the flying business is your own..What choice do you have? Who would be fit to fly in this situation that you suddenly find yourself in?

It is so early and you are raw..Can the standby pilots enjoy a streak of overtime opportunities for a while..My brother in law was a partner in a similar business as yours long ago..Now he is a mid career captain for a major US airline (passenger)..If he were in a similar situation as yours, I as a passenger would expect him to be responsible and take time off to get his equilibrium back..

When I was new to my nightmare, I had to take time off from work..People's lives (saving lives) were in my hands and I needed concentration and focus to do the bare minimum in my job..So I had to ask for time off..I took a medical leave coz I wasn't ready to confide in my boss at the time..

Basically I am saying be gentle with yourself, because this is gonna be a long road, R or D...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 12:27 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]

DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT consider her offer to have an affair yourself or a three way.

Why?

1. It will assuage her guilt and give her reason to say, well, you can't be mad anymore, you did it too. Many WS offer this as a get out of jail card.

2. It will make you feel SO much worse, not better.

3. It will complicate your efforts at R, believe the many many people who have tried this tactic.

4. Do not lose your morals and integrity over this.

SamanthaBaker Hi Sam, I'm with you 100% on that. Or maybe 98%. I was joking in a post earlier about her offer. So many things have been running through my mind. But she seems to have planted a seed with her offer and I have fanaticized about this a few times now. But that way of life just isn't me. So some fantasies should stay in fantasyland.

And even with her blessing I would still consider it cheating.

Morhurt , I agree it is wayward. I worry she may be trying to seduce me into a way of life I don't want. Or a 3-way may be her way of making atonement. I couldn't do this though, It would still be cheating. What if my WW had a change of heart when she actually saw me with another woman? She could wind up getting hurt and be in as much pain as I am now. I could never risk doing that to her.

doggiediva Well if Stoney or God ever write a book about the things they know about me it's going to be one interesting read. I was one hell raising SOB before I met my Wife. One look into her big soulful brown eyes and I was under her spell and domesticated.

If I divorced my WW today, I would still have to say the first 29 years were amazing, and if I could I would go back and relive every second over again and not change a thing. But these last 11 months are a totally different story.

Leon,

I just read through all of this, and wow, I am very sorry for what you are going through.

Something is even more wrong than I think you can see here. So she is talking to her friends about having a 3-some with you?? I mean, that tells me they know about her A's. These ARE NOT friends of the marriage, and serve to validate her behavior and actions. Regardless if you were willing or not to do this (thankfully you are not), this is boundary crossing, totally wayward thinking (Tit for tat), and shows her mind is not in the marriage but still elsewhere. She has been living quite the "exciting" life recently, so this would just add more "excitement" to this new addiction she has discovered.

She needs MAJOR help, and I wish you the best. You are one of the good ones! Do not compromise yourself because you feel you should. Do what is truly in your heart!

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

Leon, I've just read this whole thread. What you suspect your wife did to you that night was absolutely disgusting and speaks of something very deep going on within her if you are right. Coupled with the threesome suggestion I think Myheartstillhurts could be onto something with this.

Something is even more wrong than I think you can see here. So she is talking to her friends about having a 3-some with you?? I mean, that tells me they know about her A's. These ARE NOT friends of the marriage, and serve to validate her behavior and actions. Regardless if you were willing or not to do this (thankfully you are not), this is boundary crossing, totally wayward thinking (Tit for tat), and shows her mind is not in the marriage but still elsewhere. She has been living quite the "exciting" life recently, so this would just add more "excitement" to this new addiction she has discovered.

She needs MAJOR help, and I wish you the best.

Who are these friends? If they would agree to something like this are they really the sort of people a repentant and recovering wayward would want to still be around? Or that you would want her to be around? How common is it that you would find two friends willing to do this in just one ordinary group of lady friends?

I agree, do what is truly in your heart...You may not know what is truly in your heart for some time..Don't compromise your soul by doing the things you feel are wrong... After this shit storm it is hell on earth to stay with a spouse who isn't into healing the marriage with you in the driver's seat.. Even if she was following all of your requirements for R, staying isn't easy..

With the above said, I can see that you are following your gut instincts, intuition and morals in regards to the things that you DON'T want to do to stay in the marriage..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 2:09 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]

I have to step in here about her "friends". She needs to go NC with them. They are not supportive of your marriage. Get rid of them!

I'm sorry you are in this mess with the rest of us. I found out July 2013 - time and hard work is healing us... I pray you find peace.

Wow what a thread.

I just read the whole thing.

Welcome Leon. I hope you are finding comfort and some strength here. I also hope you are taking to heart some of the things that are being said here.

As a veteran who successfully R'd, I would like to add some thoughts.

1. If you are still having issues with eating, sleeping and staying hydrated go talk to your Dr. I found that in the early days when things were so raw the less sleep I had the harder time I had with managing my emotions, and making smart decisions.

I considered AD's, but did not take them, and like I told my Dr There is a difference between depression and overwhelming sadness that you know the cause of. What I chose to do was to have something that helped me sleep. Ativan. I took every night for a week and then every 3rd night when I was having trouble sleeping. I still take it for sleep because it is a great drug with little hangover. I have had sleep issues my ENTIRE life. But I need at least 5 hours on a regular basis to be clearheaded.

I get not being that person who needs meds. I also can say as a medical professional that there can be better living through chemistry.

2. You really haven't answered or addressed these willing other women. If they are friends of your wifes only then she needs to end those friendships, that is such wrong thinking it's nauseating. As a person who chose R, you get to decide the rules. If she gets it as she seems to this will not be a big deal for her.

3. You need to clarify this issue of the first post. Was she trying to cuckold you? Was she just suffering from infection at that point, and that was what made it different? This is something you need to ask her Dr, or NP. This could be holding back the road to R. If she did do what you suspect and is still lying, then she needs to come clean, if she didn't then you need to know that infection could have caused this. I am saying I don't know if it could for sure, but seems plausible. This is a real sticking point for you, and when you have this answer it will allow you to decide how to move forward.

4. Lack of intimacy is really detrimental to healing and R. You having issues without answers is keeping you from engaging. If I had not been able to have that intimacy early on in R, with the HB we had I am not sure R would have gone the way it did. I needed to be the center of his world, made to feel like the queen I am. And she may be trying to do this for you, in her limited way by performing oral on you. She wants that bond, she wants to feel the connection again.

5. She seems to be saying all the right things, and doing all the right things, but did I miss the episode where she was truly remorseful falling to her knees boo hoo snot and mascara dripping from her face sorry? I know it's not pretty but I think every truly remorseful spouse has this moment. If you haven't seen it, I would proceed with caution. You will see here often the phrase "Trust but verify" I totally disagree with that, and a relationship that is in R with a remorseful spouse will get that you can't trust, you shouldn't trust, and it's the Waywards burden to bear, and prove their honesty in every action every day. I prefer to say, "verify, verify, verify, and each time you find nothing you gain back a tiny bit of trust and after a bazillion times you will find that you do trust again."

This is a long hard road. But you are smart, strong, and capable. You will find in a year or two that you are even smarter, stronger, and more fierce than you

dup post

[This message edited by tushnurse at 6:09 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]

What tushnurse said in paragraph 3 in her post:

Needing clarification about infection vs cuckhold to move forward..

Would your WW be willing to take a polygraph?

The threesome isn't just wayward thinking. It is her way of leveling the playing field by drawing you down to her level so you throw your own integrity out the window and she can comfort herself by feeling you two are even. There is no even steven in cheating. Don't let her allow you to abandon your own principles. The fantasy may be appealing but the reality will be a killer to your self esteem and feelings of integrity in your own worth. She doesn't get to pull you down to her level to feel even.

Any friends who aren't friends of the marriage, and these two women aren't if they are even considering the threesome, need to go.

Take your time, don't make any sudden decisions and don't do anything you aren't willing and able to do. Your anger and disgust are completely understandable and your wife needs to to get into some intensive IC to understand why, instead of turning to her husband to play out her fantasies she instead turned outward to not one but multiple other men.

If she did indeed attempt to cuckold you, you have every right for that to be a dealbreaker for you. You have every right for the cheating itself to be a dealbreaker for you and you don't need to make any sudden decisions either way.

Her attempts to cajole you out of your anger through sex and the way she is going about it is disrespectful to you and to herself. Giving you head because you need it and she feels guilt is not a way to achieve a healthy, emotionally intimate reconnection. It's appeasement.

You know what? I was thinking about the definition of "cuckold" for the last few minutes..

Something about this word as it applies to your situation didn't sit right with me..

The incident between you and your WW as described in your first post is vile and disgusting to say the least.. Extremely traumatic for you, no doubt about it...

But how did you react?

The minute you noticed that your wife tasted and smelled different you immediately stopped your sexual encounter with her and could not continue..

I sensed that this wasn't the behavior of a cuckold..

So I looked up the definition of this word..

In many cultures, including our own, A cuckold has a strange fetish..

He gets off on seeing (with his own eyes) his SO/spouse having sex with others..

A loose definition of this word in our culture, is to give your consent to your spouse to cheat and lie..

And I do mean cheating as opposed to having an open marriage with agreements and rules in place for all the partners..

Continuing to live in the same house with your wife while standing up for yourself is not being a cuckold..

Existing in an house separation, doing the 180,separate bedrooms, no sex, is not the behavior of a cuckold..

Staying in the same house with your WW while you are deciding whether to R vs D is not being a cuckold...

The WS do try to put us in a cuckold position when they attempt to have their cake (A fog) and keep the comforts of home / M that they are accustomed to..Upholding our boundaries and taking action when boundaries are broken do keep us from being in this position..

Please take comfort in the fact that you refused to be cuckolded..You were/are are reacting like any normal healthy person who just had his life turned upside-down by the shit sandwich that your WW forced on you..

For her to come home from a sexual encounter with another man to have sex with you isn't something that you chose to have happen to you..

For R to be successful, your WW will need the help of an effective IC to find out why she took such a wrong turn in life and betrayed her loved ones..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 6:29 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]

LonesomeLeon:

This has been a very sad thread. But I suspect that in the end you still love your wife and will, in time, reconcile.

That said, reread what Tushnurse wrote just upthread from this. It is wisdom.

We are with you all the way. I'd just caution about loading so much on your wife that she breaks. She's human. If you make it seem as if reconciliation is hopeless, she may simply mentally curl up into a ball and become unreachable. One thing you can do is offer her some encouragement when she's doing what you need her to do.

As for the odd taste during oral sex with her, is it possible that the STDs she had (I think you mentioned two of them) affected the taste? Check with a doctor. I think it is important because you still are looking to see if you were consciously being cuckolded that night.

Her excuse that she wanted to try the whore side of the madonna/whore relationship sounds true to me. She would (back then) never play the whore with you as it would, to her mind, disrespected you something awful.

Good luck! And stay in touch.

Oh how I wish I had a magic wand for all of us. That we could heal ourselves and our spouses. You spoke of feeling dirty after relations with your wife. My husband caught herpes during his affair. I am still thankfully negative. I was torn between wanting to bask in the attention my H was finally giving me and feeling contaminated and dirty after. WH could see it on my face every time. How is this my life that I feel dirty having relations with my husband. I don't know how to tell you to get over it but it fades with time. You are amazing and strong for keeping things together the way you have. My WH is a liar and he continues to struggle with this. I think it may be a long while if ever before you get the full truth about your situation. Hang in there and keep posting. Your SI friends always have your back.

Wow Leon. Sorry to hear your story. So first of all I can't even let my fWH do anything he did with the OW. For years he never wanted to have oral either me or him. Then suddenly afterwards he wanted to. During HB He was still Liebig so I thought he just had an EA. After I found out it was a PA we did have sex but it was more me claiming him.

By the way us women also have possisve feeling of sex. I can't stand that he stuck his penis in a nasty std ridden end OW. Yes I got serveral from her. So now I can barely have him touch me because I start having panic attacks.

So my friend if I had endured what your we did I would be out... Dude she's seriously fucked in the head man.

She needs serious help. Are you sure she isn't a sex addict. ???

So no no no don't do anything to lower your morals just because she's has already.

Be strong. And if you don't have kids not sure she's worth the stay.

Definitely see a MC and explain what's going on. Good luck my friend.

Wow you all are making great points here. A lot of what you've hit on are things that have been unsettling to me. 1 or 2 are things I never thought of.

Myheartstillhurt

sinsofthefather

doggiediva

Katyaca

I agree with you guys this is wayward thinking. My WW is so close to being her normal self. But still somewhere under the surface is someone I don't know. If a priest told me she was possessed by a spirit I would believe it. And I'm not even Catholic. I'm not talking evil, just someone I don't know.

WW and I have fallen back into our lifetime routine of talking at the end of the day. Even if we had spent the entire day together our day wasn't complete without an hour or 2 of talk time. Sometimes it was before bedtime, sometimes after making love. Last night I reiterated no 3-way 4-way or gangbang. I can't help but throw a little humor in when I talk to her. If I read her right my WW seemed relieved. This woman knows me, I can't believe she would really think I'd accept.

I don't know if she had an ulterior motive in offering the 3-way. Of course her 1st offer was for me to go out and get even with as many women as I wished. When I nixed that she offered the 3-way so she would be there to reassure me she had no ill feelings about it. I do plan to speak with her and delve more deeply into her reasoning on this over the next few days.

tushnurse, Eating, sleeping and staying hydrated have been some of my biggest problems since D Day 1. I've gotten better the last few days. But I still either forget to eat or can't remember if I've eaten. WW has made sure I didn't starve and is constantly pushing liquids, she even has bottles of Pedialyte in the frig and insists I drink a glass each morning. I hadn't seen that stuff since the kids were babies.

AD's aren't for me. I'm not depressed. I'm angry, sad, sorrowful, heartbroken, indignant, indifferent, vindictive, overwhelmed, put upon, up to here with this shit, and just down right P.O'd. But I'm not depressed.

Here is my analogy of taking AD's,

"It's like falling into the outhouse and instead of pulling yourself up out of the shit, you take a pill so the smell of shit doesn't bother you".

You also bring up a good point about the sticky stuff I tasted possibly being an infection. I had not thought along those lines. My WW has vehemently denied having sex that night. But cheaters are liars. At least there is hope she is telling the truth. That night has been a major sticking point in our reconciliation. She has offered to take a polygraph and answer all questions I ask. For now I haven't pushed it.

If my WW had a vaginal infection, which I already know she had chlamydia and trichomoniasis, then she wasn't trying to secretly cuckold me. And if that is true she might me telling me the truth that she wants me to reciprocate orally more for my pleasure than hers. I never hid the fact that I enjoyed pleasing her orally.

Wow this discussion has left me with many things to think about, and to discuss with my WW.

I've mentioned my WW will from time to time when things get quiet look at me very innocently with her big beautiful brown eyes and sexually whisper, I'm a little whore. the first time she did that I got angry. Then after about a minute or so it struck me as hilariously funny.

Last night as we lay in bed talking I reached out and pulled her to me and I just held her close. That was the first time I had hugged her since D Day 1. I told her this signals nothing about our reconciliation. I just need you close right now. She told me she understood. Holding her again was beyond magnificent, almost like having an intense spiritual healing of the body and soul.

We lay there in each other's arms for the longest time then she looked up at me and whispered I'm "your" little whore. She didn't say I'm "a" little whore. It was I'm "your" little whore. I looked into her eyes and suddenly I realized I knew what she wanted me to say, I said, yes you're my little whore, and mine alone, and you will continue to be my little whore and only mine till I say otherwise. She smiled and lay her head back down on my shoulder and said that's all I ever really wanted. And soon she drifted off. I held her close till I finally drifted off an hour or so later.

Another thought I had is that I feel, as a woman, that your ww has some, for lack of a better term, un-lady like thoughts and behaviors. Her sexscapades rival some x-rated pornographic stuff. This would make some men (and women) blush. Also again on the 3 some, which I know your not considering, have you considered she brought that up because she wants to do it? That was my initial thought when I read it. Couple that with her other antics, sex addiction (SA) comes to mind. If a woman posted this about her H, i think most would go there right away. However we don't often see female SAs here, but I am leaning towards that thought with your W.

Just all things to think about and have your eye out for.

Take good care.

******If my WW had a vaginal infection, which I already know she had chlamydia and trichomoniasis, then she wasn't trying to secretly cuckold me. And if that is true she might me telling me the truth that she wants me to reciprocate orally more for my pleasure than hers. I never hid the fact that I enjoyed pleasing her orally.

Wow this discussion has left me with many things to think about, and to discuss with my WW.******

I hope and pray that she IS more concerned about your wellbeing and pleasure post D-day than her own...As time passes and life goes on, you will gradually see from your wife's actions what her motives are..

IF she got some thrill from having sex with OM and then came home to you to have sex, (all in the same evening ) than the deed and the why is her sin and burden to bear..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 7:46 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]