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Good lord that’s hurtful. I hope I’m wrong but I think the truth is going to be worse than you think. You seem to be very understanding of your wife, I would be very careful, it doesn’t sound like she is remorseful, more like regretful that she got caught. Good luck, I’ll pray one up for you.

Saw your last post on the messaging.

Look – IF your wife was telling the truth about this “only” being a HJ then it’s 100% guaranteed that it wasn’t the OM that held back… Can you imagine this scenario?

WW: I want to shower with you.

OM: No. I know we are alone here in the rear of my van in a secluded car-park and I truly believe nobody knows we are here. But I think we should go slowly. I don’t want full sex but if YOU insist I would settle for a HJ but only if it’s through my underwear and trousers.

I know I can’t… I remember back when dating that normally it’s the men asking for more and the women holding back. We didn’t have texting back then, but I doubt a single woman I was dating with but had not had sex with would want a “Want to ride this cock” message.

The texts indicate there has been more going on…

Your wife invites the man into a sexually implied situation. If she was really trying to contain this to HJ’s that would be highly unlikely. The direct sexual implications, the direct sexual context of the messages = they have been at it like rabbits.

Just tell her this:

“I KNOW THERE WAS SEX”

“EVEN NOW WHEN YOU HAVE EVERYTHING TO LOSE YOU CAN’T BE HONEST TO ME”

[This message edited by Bigger at 2:15 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

I'm going to try and say this as tactfully as possible, so please try and be responsive to what I'm about to say to you. I'm not trying to mock or make fun of you.

She was openly cucking you at a party you both were attending

She only admitted everything to you once she had no outs

She is still living with you in the home?

Bro, it's time to wake the hell up. You make good money obviously. You are her beta provider. I'm guessing your sex life is awful. Once every couple of weeks, passionless, am I right?

She saw mr. Handyman as an exciting escape to her life, fully expected to get her excitement and keep you in the dark forever, while you continued to pay for her luxurious lifestyle. She's shown zero remorse IMO. Why have you not served her yet? Why is she still in the house?

Look, is divorce going to suck? Yep. Are you going to have your self respect? Yep. Are you going to live the rest of your life NOT having to worry about whether or not your wife is playing with someone else's tool behind your back? ABSOLUTELY.

There are literally 3.5 BILLION other women on this planet, and most of them would KILL to have someone like you. Life is a finite amount of time. Why are you trying to make this work with this woman? For your kids? They know. They always know. For god? She broke her vows when she gave herself to him, the piece of her that was sworn to you through marriage.

Get out. Live life. Be happy. Find another person. Dont keep spinning your wheels with this woman who doesn't deserve it. It wasn't a lapse of judgement. She was maliciously doing this. She didn't care about you,or your kids. File for divorce. Make her leave. Focus on you. Be happy.

So here is a serious question..and I dont't mean to offend any one. When is it too early to have sex (not make love) again with you spouse after she has done this to you? I'm not considering anytime soon, I'm asking cause we did have a fairly active one....accept for the last 2 months during alleged A period. I almost feel like unless we waited years, I would be doing it purely as a physical release with a hot woman, not someone that I love. Almost like I'm using her for that purpose. Does that type of bonding help or hurts moving forward. Again, I'm not talking about cuddling, making love, even kissing. I'm talking about pure tension release and bye. Morally I'm ok with that because it feels much better than stooping to her level and finding it somewhere else in the coming years. The faith side of me doesn't feel like its wise without a pure emotional connection.

I'm glad you are getting some value from this place. One thing I wanted to mention that I haven't seen yet is to not tell your WW about this forum. This should be a place for you to vent, seek advice and try out ideas without her knowledge. Don't let her know about this place or she'll get one step ahead of you. Right now you have the initiative. Keep it up. As probably all of us here have seen you are still being lied to. It is just the nature of a cheater and an A. She wants to hold onto the marriage so she will continue to minimize. Bigger's idea of amnesty with a polygraph is the best and please actually go through with it.

If she is truthful she will take it. If she has not been expect her to start talking about how they aren't accurate. Get her to write out a timeline of the entire A. Ask questions on what she wrote and then schedule and have her take the poly. Don't be surprised when she comes up with one more thing she "forgot" right before the poly and then asks you to cancel it because now she's told you everything. Almost a sure sign there is even more. I truly hope that you get the truth and a poly bears it out. Then you can decide what you want to do with that full picture. Right now you don't have it.

Also since the OM is on the street have you established very firmly that there is to be No Contact with him whatsoever? Was there a definitive No Contact communication that you saw and approved? Is he blocked on her phone, social media, email, etc.? Do you have access to all of these things whenever you want? Have you established what she is to do if he contacts her? I hope you've told her that any contact not reported to you immediately is grounds for divorce. Have you said that? Has she spoken about needing closure with him or spoken to him since DDay? One sign of remorse is that she doesn't think of him fondly. Has she said anything about him being a "nice" guy? Defended him at all? Is she talking badly about the OM's wife? If you see signs that she is defending him you have a bigger problem.

Do you know what their plan was? Did they intend to just keep having sex in his van in the parking lot indefinitely? Was their talk of love? of leaving their spouses? You might view that as laughable but you need to know what she was planning. I would ask and it would be a question on the poly for me. Give you an idea if he will be back around.

When is it too early to have sex (not make love) again with you spouse after she has done this to you?

Well it is too soon until you get the STD results for both of you that's for sure. Do you know if they used protection? That's also a usual lie btw. Cheaters will say they did but they usually don't. There is a phenomena called Hysterical Bonding that many, myself included, experienced where you end up having a lot of sex, very good sex, while you are still angry and upset. It is a real thing. Not sure when to say is too soon but expect it to happen.

Ask your wife…

She told you it was only a HJ and that through his pants…

There isn’t any chance of there being any STD.

S, ask her “Wife. I want sex. Should we wait until after the STD results? Do you want to take the chance of leaving me with herpes, HPV or some other nasty disease or do you feel safe about us having sex NOW?”

Her response might tell you a lot…

If it was a HJ she shouldn’t have any issues. She will be on you like an anaconda on a chicken. If she has doubts… well… one more nail in the truth-coffin…

Go back to my amnesty-idea. It’s not the same as committing to reconciliation. It’s simply committing to think things through and to progress with care.

I am sorry to have to welcome you to SI.

You are going to get all sorts of replies here, and some will seem to be pushing you to D(ivorce) or R(econcile) quite forcefully. That's like those people watching a horror movie who scream, "Don't go down in the basement!" or "Get out of the building!" They're speaking from experience and their pain. SI motto - "take what you need and leave the rest."

Note: What you need may not be what you want.

What You're Experiencing:

Likely you're in some amount of shock and disbelief. You are likely to be riding the Crazy Train or here they use the term The Emotional Rollercoaser, where you go from anger to despair to love to confusion to crying to ... all in the space of minutes. You might think that you're crazy, or getting there. This is all normal. Please know that you will have to grieve the marriage that is now lost.

You need to get some control back in your life, and you need to be at least minimally healthy to do so. Here's how to start:

Drink - water or juice. No alcohol for a while because that's a depressant and you don't need any more of that right now. Also, alcohol lowers inhibitions. You might start throwing things. You might start screaming and cursing. If you do either of those things then you just might end up committing spousal abuse or assaulting the other man. You don't want to wind up in jail, pay fines, or get sued over this.

Eat - regular meals if you can. If you can't, then snack on veggies and fruits throughout the day. Smoothies are good, and Ensure, Muscle Milk, and similar products can help.

Lots of us went on "The Infidelity Diet." Where you lose more than 1/2 pound per day after DDay (Destruction Day, Devastation Day, the day we found out). Be cognizant of your caloric needs.

Sleep - Sleep? Ha! What's that? Catnaps may help short term. A full night's sleep might be out of the question for you right now, but any sleep helps. You're seeing your primary care physician so please discuss sleep with them.

Exercise - I know, right? But - some form of exercise (the harder the better) can help release the stress and it gets those exercising hormones released that help you to feel better. It also helps with the anger and anxiety.

Your wife has broken your "personal narrative." The story of our lives and how we got to where we are now. It is our understanding of ourselves and provides a backdrop of experiences. When you find out that you have been betrayed by the one person that you thought had your back and that person has also broken your narrative the result is intense emotional upset and pain. Your wife has also deprived you of your "agency." Agency is having the knowledge of your life and situation, all of the true facts of a situation, and the ability to make intelligent decisions based upon that background. Your agency is gone, decisions that greatly effect you have been made for you. This, too, is very upsetting and painful. Both together are horrendous.

Her decision to cheat is 100% on her. It doesn't matter what the state of the M(arriage) was, you were not consulted about her having an A. You had no say.

Which leads us to some of things you have already experienced:

Watch out for ---

blameshifting - "I had an A because you forced me into it!" You didn't trip her so that she fell onto a penis. Suggesting that you "forced" her to do this is ludicrous. In your case your wife has thrown the AP (Affair Partner) under the bus. He is the one that caused this.

gaslighting - from the play, "Gaslight". This is where she tries to convince you that what you have seen, heard, or experienced did not in fact happen. It is a deflection and it is done with the intent of leaving you questioning whether or not you are crazy.

rugsweeping - don't sweep this under the rug. Things swept under the rug grow big, sharp fangs and trenchant, rending claws and then someday they erupt out from under the rug and that is bad news. This results in another affair, revenge affairs, or one day 5 years from now you cannot cope any longer and are simply done.

trickle truth (TT) - where her story is "only twice, I swear on the grave of my dear mother" on Monday and two weeks later you dig more and get, "well, five. But that's all, I swear!"

Therefore, believe only 50% of what you see and 0% of what she says. She has already lost her credibility and most cheaters lie to cover themselves. Sure, they tell themselves that "I'm sparing the feelings of my Ignored Spouse!" or some other noble crap but it is just that crap. They're protecting themselves.

You need to get back some control in your life. For one thing, when she had control she really screwed that up. For another, as long as you have decided that you won't leave then you are teaching her that no matter what she does you will not leave. Why should she do anything, then?

Another SI motto - You have to be willing to lose the M in order to save it.

Yet another SI motto - We teach people how to treat us by what we accept.

Your only realistic option, if you never want to go through this again, is for her to realize that she needs to take responsibility for her actions and then she needs IC to figure out what faulty thinking allowed an A to even be an option for her. Until she does that she is still in selfish thinking and she will just continue to lie and minimize the affair and resulting devastation.

She will remain vulnerable until she does the work. The big ones APs work with to entice Wss to consider cheating are need for validation, suppressed desire, unfulfilled wishes, and latent resentment. Left on their own, WSs will come up with a convenient justification for the terrible behavior just to save their marriage.

She must do the work. You must also do the work to heal from this trauma.

I'm sorry to meet you, glad that you found us.

So here is a serious question..and I dont't mean to offend any one. When is it too early to have sex (not make love) again with you spouse after she has done this to you? I'm not considering anytime soon, I'm asking cause we did have a fairly active one....accept for the last 2 months during alleged A period. I almost feel like unless we waited years, I would be doing it purely as a physical release with a hot woman, not someone that I love. Almost like I'm using her for that purpose. Does that type of bonding help or hurts moving forward. Again, I'm not talking about cuddling, making love, even kissing. I'm talking about pure tension release and bye. Morally I'm ok with that because it feels much better than stooping to her level and finding it somewhere else in the coming years. The faith side of me doesn't feel like its wise without a pure emotional connection.

The answer varies with each person, but - and sorry if this seems like a cop out - you do it when YOU are ready for it, and it feels right to you.

Some people enter into a phase of frequent, frenetic sex after an affair is discovered, and this is known as 'hysterical bonding'. It has several functions, including the release of tension, as well as providing the betrayed spouse with a sense of 'reclaiming' lost territory.

Some people mistake this for some kind of reconciliation. It isn't. Often people report that once the HB burns itself out, they may feel emotional distance, anger, even outright hatred of the person they were screwing several times a day shortly before.

Then, some wayward spouses actively try to 'love bomb' their betrayed spouses into taking them back, and this tactic may also include plenty of 'anything goes' sex. However, it is not true reconciliation either, and it can lead to a betrayed spouse feeling like their wayward partner thinks they are a dope who can easily be manipulated with sex, which just adds insult to injury.

Then, you need to consider what message you are sending your wife if you sleep with her. One of the main tried and tested tactics in the aftermath of discovering an affair is what is called 'The 180'. There are pieces about it in the Healing Library here, but you can also search online.

It is a process through which a betrayed spouse emotionally detaches from a wayward partner, to allow them to focus on themselves and how they feel about things as an individual, without any emotional distractions from their wayward partner. It will be difficult to start having sex with your wife while simultaneously distancing yourself emotionally and - to some extent - shutting her out while you work on yourself. So it is a question of balancing physical release against the other elements in your changed relationship with your wife.

I am sure others will advise, I have only mentioned a couple of points here.

If you want an emotional connection from yourself, and you don't want to screw just for the sake of it, then I would advise holding back until it feels emotionally right to you. Otherwise you may feel empty afterwards, and disappointed in yourself. Also, refraining makes keeping your distance emotionally while you figure out what to do easier, and sends a consistent message. Trying to be emotionally distant, while physically close, is pretty inconsistent, isn't it?

That "HJ outside the pants" comment. The scenario I see in my mind's eye: they start texting, flirting, sexting. Meet in the parking lot and make out. She is feeling him up outside his pants, telling him he feels good, but they don't consummate on that occasion. Next time, they do consummate. In other words, that bit of info -- the HJ outside the pants -- is consistent with a scenario in which she was the primary sexual aggressor.

As to when to start having sex, as others have said, get your STD results first. Then, it is not uncommon for there to be a period of Hysterical Bonding -- wild, frequent sex. As the reality of the betrayal sets in, it is also not uncommon for you to reach a place where you cannot bear the idea of her touching you sexually. Be ready for a roller coaster.

Joel1111,

Please disregard the suggestions to throw your wife out. This is illegal. She can remain in the marital home if she desires. You may request her to leave and she do so on her own free will if you need space. But, never force her to leave. This may have severe legal implications as Bigger pointed out.

I think some of the individuals suggesting that you "throw her out" feel that without consequences of realizing what she may lose in divorce or separation she will feel as if she has got away with it and therefore may cheat again because she would feel emboldened knowing that nothing will happen to her.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 3:02 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

Bigger....she has admitted to sex. But then admitted to more meetings that were just HJs.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 3:02 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

OK – I missed that. Thought it was just HJ’s.

I have been hammering on that issue because its of major importance to know the truth.

Right now, if you discovered the affair had been going on for a month longer, that she did things with him she refuses you or whatever then you still have the two options (R or D) open to you. But once you start moving from the initial d-day then even the smallest truth that is unveiled later can crash all progress.

I see no reason for the cheating spouse to be told to “GTFO”

Legal or not (and excuse my language).

At DDay2 when I told my H I was D him / and he has to leave Ave - he wanted to stay and begged to R. I declined to commit to R at that time. He said he wasn’t leaving.

I made one call and told him - you are going to stay with “x”. He knew he had no other options.

Worked for me!

All so helpful! She has agreed over the next day to write down everything that happened. Dates, times, what happened.....etc. Is there a template for this? Do I just give her a list of the questions that I want answered or let her start freeform then ask?

Just tell her to make it chronologically, and to include EVERY BIT OF CONTACT, be it online or in person or over the phone with voice or text. Tell her not to leave anything out bc this is her one chance to tell you EVERYTHING and not have you demand divorce immediately. And tell her if you find anything new out afterwards, you'll be headed for D. Tell her you plan on talking to the other man's wife again to verify what she writes down.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 3:33 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

There are literally 3.5 BILLION other women on this planet, and most of them would KILL to have someone like you. Life is a finite amount of time.

Coach has this right, it's the attitude you will need to adopt to get your head straight. The worse thing that can happen is you get divorced. The second worse thing is you don't.

Okay that wasn't as funny as it was in my head, but you get the idea.

The point is that your marriage relationship is NEVER going to be what it was, ( or what you thought it was). Your priority is the kids, and you. She is flying stand-by for the near seeable future.

As for the sex, lets see how to put this, I couldn't face her for quite a while, so doggie style is your friend. I know that's crude, but I'm sure I'm not the only one that figured that out.

I suggest freeform. Verbally tell her what you want to know rather than give her a template.

Personally, I think imagination always trumps truth. I walked in on my finance having sex and frankly I can imagine worse things than I saw… But the level of detail is totally up to you.

IMHO then you are better off focusing on things that are “factual” rather than emotional.

If you have comparison-questions regarding you, your marriage and OM then maybe the first round isn’t the best place to get the answers.

Give yourself some answers. It’s extremely likely she enjoyed the sex. Just give yourself that as a fact right now rather than offer her the opportunity to minimize and lie.

Once she has handed over her timeline you can always ask for more detail or info to fill in blanks. If you give her a script she can omit things.

One suggestion:

If you threaten divorce again and again then the edge will get blunt.

Try to avoid direct threats like “If you do A then I will B”.

Rather use an open, indirect and implied threat like “Each and every time I discover a new truth that you have hidden from me it weakens whatever hope and will I have to work on this marriage. At some point I will reach a stage where I simply chose to end this”

T/j – First wife – so basically you told him to leave and he agreed aver some discussion. That’s not kicking him out, that’s making him leave. Big difference. If Joel had kicked his wife out she could have gotten the police over and had him removed. That would probably lead to him not being allowed near the house and with time improved her chances of keeping the family-house and thereby prime-custody. So yes – I stand 100% behind the advice that you do not KICK the WS out.

[This message edited by Bigger at 3:32 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

Bigger....she has admitted to sex. But then admitted to more meetings that were just HJs.

Um, no, that's not what he said anywhere.

She claims that there was no sex, just kissing, and one HJ over pants. Which is still a lie, but it's the current lie he's working with.