SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sigh. I didn’t feel it necessary to specify, I was referring to relationships that are secretly non-exclusive, in heart, mind, or body.

I’ll admit the thought of my wayward secretly pining away for someone else disgusts me and I was seeing red and speaking bluntly.

I applaud you for your ability to conduct your chosen relationships in an open and honest fashion. I think that’s really all anyone here would ask for.

IMO it must be pretty common for a WS to claim the affair was a relationship, because if they were to admit that it wasn't then they would have to own up that they betrayed their spouse, broke their vows, endangered their kids, risked their future, and placed their BS in danger of diseases and violence, and abused their BS - ALL for a series of pointless physical encounters. If they admitted all that, how could they live with themselves?

At first my WW said her affair was a real relationship and that they were in love. They were soulmates that were meant to be together, but fate conspired against them and they just didn't meet at the right time.

Then OM threw her under the bus to save his own marriage, and suddenly she hated him. Then she hated all men, because you know, we all lie and take advantage of innocent and vulnerable little women. Then she said that it was all fake, and OM had tricked her - he was the bad guy.

You know, I don't know what she believes now... and in truth I don't care. I could really be her plan A now, or she could be faking it and pining away for OM which puts me at plan B. I used to ask, but you know what? She could easily lie about that and get away clean. So now I don't ask questions that I can't confirm the truth of her answer.

Affair is a real relationship to betrayed Same as the marriage is a real relationship to wayward during the affair.

The more I think about this, the more I realize that it is really the parties within the relationship that decide if it is/was one. Even reading through texts and emails, it is just data. Someone reading through my texts with my H would see very little of who we are.

They would miss out on the laughing hysterically in bed some mornings, leaving notes in my pockets, dancing in the kitchen. I guess I saw those things that defined the relationship more that watching him puke.

Those things don’t necessarily show up in a search of phone records. They are only known between the two people in the relationship.

I agree with AbRamK,

I do think the affair was a relationship, was it real? Nope, but it was a relationship. My wife is adamant she had no relationship with her AP and we'll probably never agree. However;

AP pursued her just as I did. Granted I pursued with positive affirmations and he negative.

They shared secrets and created secrets that were between the two of them. Just as she and I did/do.

They "leaned on each other" because they were married to horrible people. Just as she has leaned on me for support over the years.

She shared her body with him, just as she has shared it with me.

So I'll go to my grave they had a relationship; IMO nothing more or less than what we experience in High school. Was it real, no? It was all secrets, was built on lies and disgust....

It's sharing those details and experiences with each other that makes a relationship a relationship.

Sigh, reading what you said Brennan87 and Evermore, I felt the pang of loss that I don't have those little shared experiences (like laughing hysterically in bed) with my ex-WW anymore. Despite everything she put me through.

And then I thought of all the times I saw their text conversations, I probably only ever scratched the surface of how deep their relationship truly went.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 8:21 AM, November 11th (Monday)]

Shattered...

I'm sorry several of the posts brought a sense of loss to you. :( I think we can all understand that.

I think what has helped for me is to revisit my past with my wife.

I too early on felt as though all of our memories were tainted and lost. Was any of it real? I got to a point, it was REAL for me. I can look at our marriage photo's, our vacations, the belly laughs, etc and see they were genuine and authentic for me. So the pangs of loss dissipated. Whether or not they were real for her, that's on her. I really don't care. I know the connection we had in St. Lucia (during the affair) was real for me. For her? I doubt it, she was leading a double life....

Own your memories and make them what you need them to be. If it's a sense of loss so be it. I am in the camp, I refused to let them take one more thing away from me...

There's over 7 billion people on the planet. Is it even realistic to believe you can love only one? I think the answer is no. Not just for a wayward but for everyone. With the dawn of technology that made the chance of finding another person or even multiple people to develop feelings for, increase.

An A is a relationship as painful as that is to admit. Is it the same relationship they have with their spouse? No. Absolutely not. The A relationship exists in a bubble removed from everyday life. From the monotonous to the mundane. The responsibility. Kids. Bills. Work. Laundry. Stress and so on. They get to experience each other with all of life's basic components removed.

Their time is devoted to each other. They spend as much of it as possible together. They communicate throughout the day. They are intimate. They talk about their spouses, lives, families, interests, histories. They exchange gifts. Their thoughts are consumed with thinking of the AP. In a LTA there becomes years of this all occurring and they get closer as they shut out their spouses from this secret relationship.

Time. Sex. Feelings. Effort. Memories. Places gone to together. Gifts. Birthdays. Holidays. Their own "anniversary".

Sure sounds like a relationship to me. Is it based in reality? No. Are the feelings real to them? Yes I believe they are and that's something I find incredibly difficult to accept. My WH had a years long relationship with his MOWhore and I was shut out from my own marriage. I'll never know the memories they and only they share and the fallout for me because of that is very real and very painful.

This is a really good perspective.

I think what has helped for me is to revisit my past with my wife.

I too early on felt as though all of our memories were tainted and lost. Was any of it real? I got to a point, it was REAL for me. I can look at our marriage photo's, our vacations, the belly laughs, etc and see they were genuine and authentic for me. So the pangs of loss dissipated. Whether or not they were real for her, that's on her. I really don't care. I know the connection we had in St. Lucia (during the affair) was real for me. For her? I doubt it, she was leading a double life....

Own your memories and make them what you need them to be. If it's a sense of loss so be it. I am in the camp, I refused to let them take one more thing away from me...

I've often felt like memories were robbed from me. The reality I knew was shattered into a million pieces of lies and deception. Vacations, trips, birthdays... made worse because I was being gaslit also.

But it's true, those memories are mine. I had fun in some of those times. There's no need to let the memories be stolen as well. WS is the one leading a double life and, presumably, anxious and stressed about not being found out, and feeling like a shitty person.

But it's true, those memories are mine. I had fun in some of those times. There's no need to let the memories be stolen as well. WS is the one leading a double life and, presumably, anxious and stressed about not being found out, and feeling like a shitty person.

Interestingly, before the end of our relationship we did try and make some new happy memories. When she would slide back into her old ways and I brought them up, she'd reveal to me that "I didn't really enjoy it/myself".

One of her biggest complaints is we didn't do enough or enough enjoyable things together. Maybe she would've enjoyed herself more if it wasn't for all her duplicity.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 11:27 AM, November 11th (Monday)]

Totally agree. It is not a real relationship. It is a fantasy.

I was told “she isn’t a threat to you” and “it meant nothing”

BS.... them why did you hide it and lie about it.!

This whole subject is kind of interesting. I'm not sure that I perceive my marriage as a "real relationship" due to the lying that was going on. I struggle to think of what made my marriage more "real" than whatever bond my XWH had with a particular prostitute whom he texted and met with for months. Because I did his laundry? Shared the same house? Because I believed that I was in a "real" relationship?

I think there's very little "real" on either the marriage or the AP side when infidelity comes into it. It's all a pile of shit at that point.

I've often felt like memories were robbed from me.

TwiceWounded,

It's funny because I've told people that I thought my future was robbed from me. I've often felt like a time traveler. I could see my future with my H spiraling out in front of me - when DS would go to college, marry and have children, when we would have an empty nest, travel and build on our memories. I could see that future as if it were real but no one else could. As soon as I knew it was over with WH then that line of possibility was cut and no one but me knew that it existed.

Sorry for the t/j

Same. All those future plans just evaporated. Memories became untrustworthy and the future went blank. It's no wonder we're a mess for a while afterwards. You just feel unmoored.

I'm not sure that I perceive my marriage as a "real relationship" due to the lying that was going on.

Same DevastatedDee. Most of my M was a lie so who had the 'real' relationships. I feel gutted.

I can only speak for myself but i believe my affair was "real" indeed it was sundrenched, full technicolor real.

My AP and i ran through the streets of Seville in the early morning sun, I watched a beautiful woman run in front of me wearing lycra shorts and a sports bra with her hair tied up in a ponytail it was so real it was beyond real.

Sitting at a pavement cafe at the end of our run s1pping coffee, covered in sweat, her looking like a fitspo blogger but with more sweat and far less makeup, real.

Her watching me leave the bathroom and get ready to climb into bed with her, the broad smile on her face, real.

It's not that it isnt real is is it sustainable and no if I had left my wife for my AP we would have come down from our NRE high and been just like any other couple with all our issues, probably, but then i will never know.

But one thing I know I will always have those bittersweet memories

My AP and i ran through the streets of Seville in the early morning sun, I watched a beautiful woman run in front of me wearing lycra shorts and a sports bra with her hair tied up in a ponytail it was so real it was beyond real.

I'm sorry whaaaaaa? I think you like to stir the pot.

No not at all, i suppose it is trying to get my head together, my ww are trying to R and when she is at home all is ok, not because i dont trust her but ehen she is here her presence calms my thoughts.

Problem is i can do a lot of my work at home indeed it is benificial as i dont have a stream of people coming into my office wanting me to solve their problems, when i am at home alone i sometimes get a bit maudlin.

So no i am not stirring the pot but letting my feelings out but maybe in to much detail. If anyone is affectef by this you have my sincere apology, i will think more before posting in future.

So no i am not stirring the pot but letting my feelings out but maybe in to much detail. If anyone is affectef by this you have my sincere apology, i will think more before posting in future.

No worries guess I triggered too much over it. Ugh

Again my apologies. I seem to be suffering from some sort of emotional overload lately lol.

End of tj