SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Cooley2here,

I've never heard of EMDR. I will definitely look into that. It makes perfect sense what you said of it bringing up old bad memories and reacting like a child. My therapist I've been working with for years made a similar comment. That now he has brought back all the trauma I had from a child and set me backwards after years of working on myself. She has been working with me to bring me back up again. I will talk to her about what you suggested. Thank you. I appreciate the advice.

The1stWife,

That is also true. Having the kids just makes it really hard. I'm just not sure this is forgivable.

PerfectStorm, I've never met you but it is obvious that you are a very sweet, kind soul who doesn't deserve what you are going through. Sad but true, this journey will toughen you up to the point where you won't take crap off anyone again. And that is a good thing. Good will come out of this.

And yes, surround yourself with lots of support (including us). The support will help you get through those tough days you are about to experience. I think it's very important for you to reach out for help. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have others to lean on with what I'm going through.

Remember, you didn't cause this...

You're not stupid PerfectStorm! You're just grasping at straws trying to fix something you didn't break, and you thought showing him this site would help.

It could help him, if he chooses to dive in and do the work. If he chooses to stay after the very tough critics here see through the bullshit he tries to feed them and refuse to let him get away with it. If he chooses to be honest, even if that means that he's going to have more than a few 2x4s thrown his way. Right now those are big IFs though.

You can't go back and change it now. Honestly, I do hope he gets help here! Just follow HellFire's advice and make sure you are paying attention to his words and actions, because now that he has this site, he has the remorse "playbook." It's not that you don't want him to learn how to be truly remorseful, it's just that unfortunately, someone who isn't remorseful - who is just manipulative and doesn't want their life turned upside down - could come here and learn how to mimic remorse. Be aware that just because they are saying the right things doesn't always mean they are doing the right things. Look for the actions, not the words.

And if there is anything you do not want him to know, do NOT post it here. He's a proven liar, so his promises not to read what you post are as moot as his wedding vows.

So on to your actual story. They've been messaging in some form or another since 2008, so 12 years. You've been married for 15 years. That means that for 80% of your marriage, your husband AND your best friend were actively lying to you. You don't say much about this in your initial post, but how was your best friend around your husband when the two of you were first dating? Did you ever feel like she was showing interest in him? Did she marry her husband before or after you married yours? I ask because I wonder if she fancies herself in some sort of perverted competition with you, one that she decided to keep to herself. Did you ever get the sense that she was jealous of what you and your husband have? Did she ever say anything about whether your husband was a better "catch" than hers? You don't have to answer any of those questions if you don't want to, I guess I'm just thinking that answering them, even if only to yourself, might help you get a little clarity on why she would do this. Other than just the classic, "because I wanted to," which is true of all cheaters.

Always home with us. No unaccounted time away. Their PA was so quick. She literally would meet him right off the high way on his way to work. A quickie and then off to work he went.

Many of us have spouses who we thought weren't cheating because there was "no way." It's not your fault that your brain didn't do the mental gymnastics required to put all of this together, especially if he wasn't treating you any differently. As the truth continues to come out, you might start putting some puzzle pieces together about how some of his behavior might have been off, but trust me, they aren't things that any normal person would have noticed, because our brains don't function in the deceitful, manipulative ways that theirs do. You can't see what you aren't looking for. My XH ended up having an exit A and left me for the OW, and I was super suspicious of all of his weird ass behavior during that time, which ultimately lead to me catching them. BUT I found out after DDay that he had been seeing escorts throughout our ENTIRE relationship. Anytime I had ever had any suspicions of cheating before, it was quickly met with thoughts of "But how is that even possible? Literally every second of his day is accounted for. I see him go to work, then he comes home to our daughters (my step kids), then I come home and I'm with him all night." I say that just so you know you are not alone. I felt like a complete fool for a while, until others here at SI set me straight. Many of us thought it would never happen just because time would be a barrier, but we've all found out that they'll make time when they want to.

I'm going to parse this paragraph out for you.

During our couples therapy, the therapist did have him admit that he felt entitled to it all.

Entitled is a great word for wayward behavior. Glad your therapist is on board with labeling it as such.

Not sure of it was totally due to me not giving him the time or day at that moment but my ex friend definitely caught us at our weakest and low time of our relationship.

It was NEVER because you "didn't give him the time of day." It was because he did not understand how he should act when he chose to interpret your depression as feeling slighted/unloved when he wasn't the center of attention, so he chose to do the quickest, easiest thing to make himself feel better, consequences be damned. Do you see how self-centered that all was? It was also never really about her playing this game to "convince" him because she knew you guys were at your weakest. Don't get me wrong, she did take advantage of that, but so did your husband. H wasn't "played" or "tricked." He is complicit in the same level of deceit and manipulation as she is.

The same exact thing about using excuses to get her "needs" met goes for your best friend, just change the pronouns. She was feeling bad, so she did whatever she needed to do to feel good, no matter who it hurt. Add in the huge betrayal that you were confiding in her through it all, so:

She knew exactly what I was going through. It was after our 2nd child that I was having Postpartum depression extremely bad. I was in a very dark place.

This level of deceit on her part is cold and calculating. Especially given that you've been friends since childhood, so she also knew this:

I always struggled with depression. Even as a child, all the way through my teen years and into adulthood.

They both knew about your lifelong struggle with depression, and they did this anyway! Remind yourself of that when you're asking yourself whether you can trust either of them.

I was on a bunch of random medications, experimenting what would work and what wasn't. Also I was trying to navigate life with a new baby and a 4 year old. My father had a stroke while I was pregnant and had been released from rehab right before I had my daughter and I had to take care of him as well. He was parazilzed on his left side from the storke.

That is so much for somebody to go through all at once! This is the time when spouses need to step up for each other, not run away because their needs have understandably been put on the back burner while other, more pressing things are being addressed.

So I honesly could have cared less about his sexual needs. I do take blame in that.

First, let me say that I really, really detest when someone labels their sexual wants and desires as "needs," especially in the context of infidelity. I know that sexuality is a part of being human, but in terms of the heirarchy of needs safety, shelter, food, water are all higher up. And your spouse is not a sexual vending machine for sex on demand when you just "have" to meet that "need." I'm sure a few people will be along to refute that, I'm not trying to deny the pain of those coming from a dead bedroom or whatever else, just simply commenting on how his use of "need" here comes off.

If he truly defines it as a "need" to the point where he needed it so bad that he "had" to pull over on the side of a highway for a quickie or a blowjob, well then yes, I definitely do think that the sexual addiction component is at play here, because that is incredibly compulsive. Could he not have masturbated? Not that it would take care of the compulsivity issue (trust me, compulsive masturbation is just as hurtful, ask me how I know), but at least it would not have involved this double betrayal. Why did he choose to use your friend as a living sex doll? He had lots of other choices, he chose that one. Could he not have just hunkered down with you and tried to figure out this new world order together, and let sex be on the back burner for a bit while the two of you worked to sort things out?

Which leads me to my second point, but of no less importance than the first - you do not need to take ANY blame at all for not meeting his sexual "needs" during a time when you and your family were in crisis. Pregnant with a 4 year old, the stroke of your father, then post partem with a newborn and a 4 year old and having to play caretaker to an ailing parent? Who in the world would have time for sex, let alone the drive for it? If anything, he should be taking the blame for not finding healthier outlets for his sexuality when you were clearly not in a position to participate with him. You're smart, listen to yourself:

doesn't give him a reason to go screw my friend during a time I needed him the most.

Where was he during your PPD? Was he stepping up in any way to help with the kids? Or your father? Or was he just letting you flail about trying to meet everyone's needs but your own, then using your understandable distraction as an excuse to go get some on the side? You mentioned 3x a day earlier... He had an infant, a 4 year old, and an ailing father in law, as well as this job he was supposedly driving to every day in order to have the illicit-off-the-road-BJs, oh yes, and his severely depressed wife - I have a hard time understanding how he even had time for 3x a day without some serious neglect of you and the kids.

I would bet that stepping up with the kids and your father, or even just emotionally supporting you through such a difficult time, would have gone a long way towards you feeling sexually energized again. We do not feel sexual when we do not feel safe, emotionally or otherwise.

He has always had issues with expressing himself so if I'm not paying attention (which I sure as hell wasn't at that time) then I don't know if something is wrong with him.

Repeat after me: It is NOT my job to interpret someone else's feelings, it is their job to communicate them!

He is literally doing EVERYTHING possible to try to keep us together but my feelings are just not there like they should be. I see him doing everything possible but I just feel that it is not enough. I feel like I want more but I can't even pinpoint what more I even want.

Gently, I ask, what does "everything" look like to you? Is he doing the bare minimum to contribute to his half of the marriage, as he always should have been, but because he was neglecting those duties for so long, now it seems like he's doing a lot? That can be confusing for a lot of BSs... we're so used to being the one who does everything, that even when the WS does one or two things more than what they usually do, we feel like they are going above and beyond, when in actuality they still haven't even risen to 50%. Which could be why you still don't feel like it's "enough." It might have been enough if he had done it all back before all of this happened. But now you need more. It takes a lot more effort to fix something that has been broken than it does to maintain something that was never broken in the first place.

I just don'tfeel fulfilled anymore with him. But also still can't see myself with anyone else. It's so hard to explain. I'm just lost and broken.

Just wanted to say you've been heard, and you are in good company! Every single BS has been exactly where you are. This feeling is universal. You are not alone!

Hurtmyheart,

Thank you for your kind words. I am hoping something great comes out of this, whatever it may be.

HeHadADoubleLife,

Thank you so much for pointing out so many things. It's a real eye opener. I'm not sure who to take parts of texts and put them in my messages like you did but I'm going to try to follow along and answer as much as I can...

So, 2008-2009 was them messaging eachother planning out my baby shower and him also helping her get started with Ebay to sell things on there. Which I told her to reach out to him for advice because he does that all the time. It was strictly just those messages and from what it seems like, there wasn't any deleted messages but I can't be too certain of course. Seems like it died out after my baby shower in early 2009. Then picked back up later in 2010 with her reaching out asking how he's doing. Telling him she's home bord with her new baby and misses planning the baby shower. A lot of boring emails back and forth. Her telling him she's lonely home all day, him telling her to talk to me because I was home as well with our baby and her (lying) saying I don't respond. Late 2010 it picked up more. Her starting to ask him if he knows what I do at home all day because she thinks I talk to my Ex (which was a lie. He reached out to me and I shut him down after a few messages back and forth of the fake typical hey how you doing). Emails started going more and more. A lot of missing ones from him deleting of course. 2011 is when she started getting a lot more flirty and making passes at him. Him responding interested. And then they planned out their meeting spot, in a parking lot off the highway. That went on until about 2013 (from what I could tell anyway) maybe even into early 2014. There's just so many emails it's too much to read every single one but I've read A LOT.

The way she was around him seemed like she didn't have any interest in him. She did make comments all the time about how adorable we are and you can tell by the way he looks at me that he loves me and it's so cute. That was the 1st few years she would make comments like that. Tell me how good he is to me and so on. Now that I look back and think of things it all makes sense of their time line. She was never into sports, she was always into girly stuff growing up. I was the "Tomboy" into sports and just being outdoors and video games. Things like that. Around 2010/2011 she all of a sudden started loving baseball and would ask us to go to games as couples. I remember thinking it was weird she even knew the players names. My H is a huge sports fan and I always loved baseball too. So we went to games a lot. Then basketball season came around and she took interest in that. Same with football. TV shows that she normally wouldn't watch she started watching. It was stupid reality shows that my H and I would watch and we'd talk about with them and laugh and make jokes about it, she then started watching those. Which I saw her trying to talk to him about those things as well. We traveled, and they never really did any of that. Soon after she wanted to travel everywhere with us and go places. Which I was happy because now I could makes memories will more of the people I loved. All these times with us all together i never seen them look at eachother in any weird way, never caught them off somewhere talking privately. Never suspected a thing. Only thing that I remember weird was her weird smirks she'd get on her face at times and I'd wonder wth is going through her head. I even asked a few times and she'd laugh it off and act like nothing. Almost like she had a flashback of the two of them and she was laughing in my face. One of our other friends had actually told me she has to have everything I have. Every time I got something new she went out and got it. I never cared or looked at it like that. I figured she just liked it. My H even made comments about her always "copying" me but I still didn't look at it as that. Just that she liked it so got it herself. Little did I know she did it with my man too. She was with her husband 1st. They had a child 1st also. That child might also be another man's kid which I already told her H about that and their 2nd child. Not sure exactly what he did with all the info I gave him but I told him everything I knew about her past. I did feel like a few times over the years she felt in competition with me over stupid things but I didn't ever say anything.

When she finally admitted to the affair her reason for it was that her H had been having an affair and it was easier to talk to my H about it and he pursued her. She was in a dark place and talking to him helped her.

I'm still piecing things together but one of the things that stands out with him was him randomly telling me he doesn't deserve me. That I'm too good for him and looking like he was about to cry. That happened a lot, especially during their PA time. It was odd to me and I'd question him where that was coming from and he never really gave me much of an answer. Of course now I look back at a lot of things. One is our messages during those times ( when he's at work he emails a lot rather than using his phone to text). He would be his normal loving self. But then there were times he was distant and I'd ask what's wrong and he'd say it's one of his moods. Probably was when he was close to screwing her again. They didn't meet every day or every week. It was so random. One thing they both seem to say was over the 2 year period of the PA it was about 10 times they had sex or her giving blow jobs. So, I'm sure at those times there had to be build up for it.

You're so right about the sexual needs. He helped out but he worked a lot so it was me taking on our new life alone with all 3 (baby, 4year old and my dad) that needed me. While still maintaining a hoisehold with cooking and cleaning and still struggling with getting myself right. It was tough. I honestly don't even know how I got through that whole time. The time I needed him the most he pretty much ran. It didn't seem like that at the time but looking back I see it now. I see how selfish he was. He definitely could have masturbated. He did it even when he got sex. But he chose to still go ahead and have sex with me friend. I'm sure he chose her because it was easy. Hardly any work out into getting it. She was already there and willing. So why not take it.

My therapist has said the same thing to me about interpreting his feelings. Telling me he's a big boy and he needs to learn to use his words. You're both absolutely right. I have the problem of taking on other people's problems an trying to help them fix them. Before even helping myself. My therapist had been trying to drill that in my head that I need to take care of myself first. Whenever there is an issues presented to me I take it on as if it's my problem and I need to stop doing that. I don't even have the energy for that.

Since this all came out (in January) it set me back into a deep depression. He has taken on both rolls and has stepped up to take care of things. Luckily he is able to work from home during the lockdown. But he also has been doing a much better job with communicating with me instead of holding it in and not saying anything and then letting it fester into anger. He takes the time to do things I like. Things out of his comfort zone. Back to doing more family things. Paying attention and taking care of my needs more. Doing sweet things

For me and also including the kids on it. I do honestly see him trying but the pain of what he did still outweighs anything good he is trying to do now.

As awful as it all is, I'm glad that there are people here that I can talk to about it and understand.

Thank you.

Hi Perfect you cannot fix stupid.

One day at a time

Buffer

I’m not sure this will help you but it’s a suggestion.

I was in your shoes after dday2 and my H living at home. Begging me to R which was a firm “no way in hell”. But I wanted to keep up appearances sake for the kids.

I was polite in front of kids. If I made dinner and kids were home we ate together. No kids - no meals for him/us.

I created space from him just to mentally disengage. I know it’s harder during this pandemic but if you need to lock yourself in the bathroom - feel free. Hide in the laundry room from all of it.

Point is to give yourself a break from this being in your face 24/7

The1stWife,

Thank you. For most of the day he's in the office working from home and I'm with the kids. Either in the yard or doing something in the house. At times i do go sit in my car just to get away from everything and have a few minutes to gather myself again. Sometimes I'll make phone calls and talk to a friend while in the car. When it all came out I was hardly doing much of anything. But I dragged myself out of that self pity and had to be a mom first. When I cooked I made the kids and my plate and we'd go eat. I'd leave the food there so he could make his own plate. Little conversation between us. He would keep trying to talk to me but I kept it minimal. Recentlt I've gone back to making his plate on some days. Some days I'm in my anger and won't. Not a big deal to most but to him it is. After dinner I leave the mess for him to clean up. He used to me doing it all. On those days I also don't engage in conversation with him. If he asks something I give him basic responses and keep it moving. I want to stay like that but it's hard when I still live him so much. So he gets the better part of me back out and I go back to our usual ways. The lockdown is extremely hard because I can't go out with any friends and I'm just stuck here. I've never been the type to go out. I'm always home. So me going out a few times here and there was nice for me. Then all the Covid stuff got everything shut down. He loves it at that moment.

You’ve received wonderful support and advice. Follow it! I would do some things differently if I had DDay to do over again (and would redo a million moments since!). But I was clear on wanting R from the start, and the situation I faced was awful but shorter and less complex. So others can guide you best on exploring D vs R, and trying to heal from more of a LTA (long term affair) – healing you need regardless of the outcome for your M. But I will chime back in here and there because the double betrayal piece is really its own beast, and I can relate. Some of my IC so far has been focused on that, with more to come. It’s devastating to feel that two people (in my case technically three, although the other was more of an acquaintance) could set aside any concern for me as a person long enough to do this. As if an A isn’t hard enough on the self-esteem… that is the real kick in the gut while down. It’s magnified for you because of the emotional aspect involved and length of time. I am so so sorry! She sounds like an incredibly damaged person.

Lefty – I’m sorry you can relate as well! I’ve noticed that double betrayal thread in I Can Relate doesn’t get much “conversation” – but good suggestion to go back and read. I haven’t done that. I need to gather the emotional strength.

My Ex Friend isn't even his "type", he actually was always annoyed by her… he constantly talked bad about her which used to upset me. It is just all still so crazy to me. It's definitely going to be long road to whichever way we end up.

OMG true over here too! I was flat out shocked that he hooked up with her, even just one drunken time. Shocked. Then FURIOUS that he “took her from me.” I know that sounds crazy because obviously she treated me like crap in the end, which doesn’t undo all the many supportive things she did. But I am still grappling with the fact that she is gone from my life, for reasons that make ZERO sense. I know you can relate.

I wanted to comment on something from early on in this discussion and that has come up as you’re navigating these early months…

1- you need to tell him EXACTLY what you need to see

For R to even be “on the table,” this IS important, but as you said yourself it can be easier said than done. There are some basics that are a given…. Timeline, access to devices and accounts, resources he can read if he’s serious about helping (pinned post in Wayward subforum, which I copied to a Word doc to share with my H, and the book by Linda MacDonald “How to help your spouse heal from your affair” are a good start). But I have seriously struggled to pin down “what I need” now that the R process is well underway. It has caused a lot of our conflict in recent weeks, this past week has been especially awful. The bottom line is…. You shouldn’t need to know what you need right now. This should NOT be a thing you need to know how to respond to! So it’s perfectly normal to not be sure how to feel better despite desperately wanting to feel better. He could do “everything right” (and I’m talking by the book, not just the regret-driven love-bombing that is common at first), and you might still feel completely totally out of sorts. Not “might” – WILL. This can lead to frustration and impatience in the otherwise genuinely remorseful WS… which often triggers their shame spiral… “oh woe is me, I’m as sorry as a human can be and I’m trying so hard and it’s not enough… I'm just a horrible person... this is so hard on me too you know.” I will concede that those feelings are valid, a normal human response, but they come a distant second to what you are going through. If you see this pattern, shut that shit down. It's "understandable" but NOT acceptable. This is a serious roller coaster ride, with lots of ups and downs and setbacks along the way.

It sounds like he is doing some good work on himself – just as you need to heal no matter what happens with the M, so does he. It really sounds like she was mostly just his SA “personified” – especially the way you describe it as being very one-sided (in his favor), and that he acted in roles or ways he doesn’t normally with you. It’s going to take him a long time to sort through all of that and it can absolutely be a dealbreaker, no matter how much you may get to the heart of his “why.” And that’s OK.

No matter what path you take, this is going to be long and painful. Knowing that we have been dragged to the start of a marathon that we are now required to run really sucks. It is so incredibly unfair.

I’m curious… Do you have a circle of mutual friends? Do they know? That is something difficult that I am having to navigate that I may be seeking advice on soon, once socializing starts to go back to normal.

[This message edited by GTeamReboot at 10:21 AM, April 18th (Saturday)]

GTeamReboot,

I read your story and I can say that I can relate so much. When you said he took your friend away from you. I feel that so much. One of the things I said to him was that was MY friend and now he took her away. In reality I think he did me a favor because she's obviously a shitty person and friend. But still doesn't stop me from missing her at times. Males me sad.

The crazy and scary part about this whole thing is, I've always had access to all his stuff. All his passwords. His email and iPhone is even connected to his laptop at home that we all use. He just knew I never ever went through his stuff. I never cared to or felt the need to. The info was there all these years and I never went looking for it. Which makes me feel even stupider. He deleted a lot. She had multiple emails that were all the same names but they were through different places, like 1 for Gmail, 1 for Yahoo, one for AOL. I don't think he realized she was emailing from multiple places because they all looked the same. So when he deleted it, it was all from one email. So it was really easy to get them. I could have at any time read their emails as they were coming in but never went into his stuff. I had all the trust in the world for him.

We do have mutual friends. Some know and some don't. I don't want to deal with some of their judgmental comments so I chose not to tell all. But the closest friends know. His childhood friends were in complete. I went and told him 1st, I think looking for some kind of advice. Not really sure what I was looking for. But he cried with me. My H kept this all to himself and never spoke on it with anyone. I believe he would have died with it. His friend said that he always looked up to him. Always thought what would he do in certain situations. Always believed he was a great H and father and had him on a pedestal, kind of like i did. He couldn't believe what happened. He kept asking me if I was messing with him. He was just as shocked as I was, especially with WHO it was. We talked for a very long time. Then he texted my H and they spoke. He actually helped us both get through it the 1st few weeks. Then the Covid stuff began and he had to figure out their family issues so we didn't want to burden him with our stuff. My advice (which probably isn't worth much right now) is to only tell who you are 100% comfortable with. Not anyone that will be judgemental to you guys. Also remember once you tell them, you can't take it back so be 100% certain you are totally comfortable with them. There is one mutual friend that i do regret telling. Be prepared for their opinions because they will say things you most likely don't want to hear. I don't know if it's advised to go telling mutual friends. But that's my experience. Our mutual friends have hopes for us. They haven't treated us any differen yet...but it may be different if things don't go so great. So, I guess stay tuned for that, depending on our future...

The therapist said it was his way of gaining the control he lost over it again. But that's hard for me to believe.

That sounds about like the usual. Keep in mind, with anything that I say, that although I was suspicious at the time and we had words, my suspicions were allayed by a steady diet of lies, so I found out all of this 9 years later. My FWS wanted to believe that there some "specialness" or "meanfulness" (the quotes are mine for emphasis) in her affair. There wasn't. She found out that not only did she have no control, but it wasn't really special in any way. The only "control" she had was in either not cheating, or in cheating, but everything else was really out of her control.

One of my main questions to him was WHY and he couldn't really answer it.

I think we would all love to know the answer to that.

I never got a satisfactory answer. For all of us who have been faithful to our marriage, we all likely have the same problem.

Nothing I was ever told seemed to make cheating worthwhile. I'd actually had a couple of women come-on to me during my marriage and ignored it, these were attractive women, but in the most obvious instance, I was literally sex starved and had been ignored by my wife for months. I was on a business errand when it happened, and yet all I could see was the negative consequences of such a behavior should I have engaged in it, my wife crying, my children crying, my family being broken up and the hurt and the pain that it would cause. So, I ignored it. I never wanted to cause anyone that much pain and distress.

One of my most memorable moments happened a few months after D-day, we were driving and she remembered that she had taken a walk with him in a park, a park where we had gone many times with our children, I already knew about the blow job given in another park, and all the other places where they had sex, also where we had taken our children, but this was just another park, and was just a walk, nothing more, no sex, just a meet up and walk.

I completely lost it when this came up, perhaps it was the toll of the previous 7 months, or just the fact that she had met up with this guy to take a walk only and that seemed to make things more than what it was.

I ended up in an empty parking lot in front of a big hardware/building/home supply store on a Saturday morning screaming at the top of my lungs "WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY?" over and over and over.

I really wanted to know "why".

In all our discussions, in over 4 years of counseling, in all the confessions, I learned of the underlying issues she had, I learned of her weaknesses and fears, but I never once got a "why" that made one bit of sense to me.

It is really hard to get inside the mind of a cheater.

There is only one answer to the “why” question.

Because they are selfish and wanted to and believed they would never get caught/found out.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:36 AM, April 19th (Sunday)]

PerfectStorm Oh I don’t intend to tell anyone at all! The problem is I can’t control who she tells or who her exH may have told. They were divorced when the ONS happened, but not by long and he and my H had been coworkers (but weren’t at that point), good friends as well though that had tapered off. So really it was like my H cheated on his friend as well as me. They had lived in our neighborhood while married. So our families were “like family.” The exH could decide to trash my H to their mutual friends. She insists he was so mortified he would never say a word. Just wants to forget about him and us and all of it. He was like a brother to me. I sent him a message acknowledging what a shit show it was and telling him how sorry I was he was hurt and thanking him for all the friendship over the years. He didn’t reply but I know him well enough to know I got my kind message across. It was like closure I needed. Despite their divorce we were still friends with him. So that’s another friendship lost.

But the kicker!!?... She moved back into our neighborhood with her new BF. With her encouragement he bought the house two doors down from where she lived with her Ex. That happened after the ONS with my H but before I knew. Her BF found out what happened and forced her to tell me. Long story. So we have all the same neighbor friends again even though a few of them had distanced themselves from her long ago. Now she may he back in the social mix but those people don’t know. Or do they? I may never know. The risk of accidental social interaction is high if we are all invited to things where the hosts don’t know (and I don’t intend to tell them!). It’s really a shit show and I don’t want to hijack here!! I’m gonna post about it sometime, just haven’t yet. I want some advice.

Hang in there!! I’m cheering hard for you, come what may.

Standingthere,

You're right about the "why". I think even if he did give me an answer I'm not sure exactly how I'd process it or if I'd even feel like it was a good enough answer/reason. He talked to his therapist about it too. She told him that I need to learn that I won't be able to get answers to everything. It made me angry at first but then I also realized she's working to help him and his MANY other issues besides us. At times i feel like she gives him excuses for what he did but again, I guess that's her way of working on him with him. All the emotions and questions going through me, it just really sucks at times.

And yes, I had times were I could have entertained other men as well but I knew the road of damage that would have came with it and I avoided it. I actually had a male friend that he was uncomfortable with. Crazy part is he got so upset about our friendship but I hid nothing. He knew everything about it and it still upset him AND it was during the time he was having his PA with my friend. Why worry about wth I'm doing when you're screwing my friend? But, when I saw how much it upset him I cut back dramatically on my friendship with my male friend. I regret it today. We still talk here and there but nowhere near close to how we used to be. When I cut our friendship off he was suffering from the death of his father. So, i wasn't there for him during an awful time in his life. But I chose my M over the friendship I had. Makes me angry now. My husband knew his father was dying but he didn't care. He wanted all of my attention on him while he also had his attention on me and my friend, crazy.

[This message edited by PerfectStorm222 at 9:30 AM, April 20th (Monday)]

The1stWife,

I 100% believe he thought he would never get caught. He knew she would never speak on it and he knew he wasn't.

Both beyond selfish.

PerfectStorm222:

Your WH was upset about your relationship with your friend because he was projecting his shitty behavior and lack of morals on to you. If you read here long you will see this is very typical cheater behavior. In fact it is often a red flag for cheating as it almost becomes obsessive: the jealousy and projection that the spouse is cheating. Sorry you felt the need to back off from your friend at a critical time. Good luck.

GTeamReboot,

Ohhhh I thought you were asking about the mutual friends that my H and I have. Not the mutual friends my ex friend and I have. I actually did tell the mutual friends that her and I had. She is the type to jump and act fast when something happens, that way she can try to control how is goes. We have so many mutual friends from us growing up together. I actually wanted everyone to know the kind of person she was. Over the years some people would ask me why the hell I'm friends with here and I'd get annoyed with them. Then there were other friends that thought she was this wonderful perfect angel. I mainly wanted friends that were in relationships to know what had happened. To warn them it could happen to them. In high school she actually did the same thing to another friend. They obviously weren't married but she was sleeping with one of her other close friend's boyfriend. I used to always tell her to stop it and how wrong she is. She didn't stop. The boy ended up telling her he couldn't do it anymore and she had the nerve to come crying about how heartbroken she was ughhh. I kick myself now thinking about it. She showed me exactly who she was then and I chose to continue a friendship with her. Dumbass I am.

It wasn't the mature thing to do and go tell all our mutual friends and might come back to kick me in the ass IF I end up staying in my M BUT it made me feel better for that moment that I was exposing her and all her shitty things she has done. So yes. They all know.

Definitely don't feel like you're hijacking lol. It really sucks that we end up losing all these relationships/friendships that we have built and enjoyed just because two selfish people male such shitty decisions and now have to force us to separate and lose the relationships built. Another level of hurt. My friend has 3 kids that I've been a part of their whole lives and now I can never see them again. It just really sucks. I'm not the one you need advice on for your situation. I kmow for myself it would drive me nuts being at an event that she is at and knowing who knows or not. Me there looking like a fool. So, it would make me feel better that they know that I know and It's my choice to still be there (with him and in the situation). It's so messed up that someone makes a choice that affects you and they don't even have the respect to tell you. That way they pretty much are making the choice for you! I really hate that. Tell me the truth and let ME decide how I want to proceed. But then again by everyone knowing it might make things awkward for everyone too. I'm sure once you post about it you'll get some great advice. People on here have been so great so far.

Fareast,

I've realized that now. I get so angry thinking about it. He would have full blown meltdowns crying and everything about my friendship. He would hide to listen to our conversations. Which he didn't have to because I'd have the conversation right in front of him. He knew his father was dying too. Just makes me so angry. He was having a PA but worried about my friendship. Selfish isn't even the word for him.

She showed me exactly who she was then and I chose to continue a friendship with her. Dumbass I am.

Oh do I feel this soooo much. I’ve always been known as someone who gives people the benefit of the doubt, sees the best in them. She lost other friends (some were mutual friends, still in the picture, including one of her “neighbors again”... hence my concern if they kind of reconcile and are back in the neighborhood social loop and now what!? Ugh). I always stayed friends with her. I always gave her the benefit of the doubt.

The tiny consolation is that she admitted to all of that, as she cried and confessed, how it was extra awful that she hurt me of all people because of how I was always there for her. She was there for me too in some really important ways and it’s hard to lose that. But I think even her kindness was often a form of narcissism. Like, she enjoyed being kind and generous but definitely wanted attention and credit for it sometimes. I have been focusing on my healthier friendships, and H and I have been as well with other couples.

You are so thoughtful with how you take time to reply to each of us as we post to help you. You have a kind heart. That heart deserves healing, and I hope you find it - no matter the path you and your M end up on.

[This message edited by GTeamReboot at 12:00 AM, April 21st (Tuesday)]