SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

°Going to make a final attempt...

As a first responder I have training in triage. If I arrived at a car-crash I would maybe ignore the big bleeding gash on the forehead of a victim – the most prominent and obvious injury - and focus on limiting possible spine-damage. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t get to the gash, but rather that the most pressing issue was that until I had the neck and spine taken care of, then any focus on the gash would be wasted time and even might cause more damage.

This is an infidelity site, so of course we focus on the infidelity. We also might focus on OM as the goal of your GF infidelity.
Well... It’s not. OM is the gash... It’s an issue, but not the key issue. The real damage, the damage that can become even more damage... that’s her drinking.

The goal for her is to be able to drink. The OM is an enabler. He’s a nice enabler. He’s a better justification to go out than bulk-discounts at bars. (I’m going out with my friend who doesn’t judge me for boozing, can hold an interesting conversation, and is nice to the eyes...) Ironically – if both she and OM were broke, or placed on a ban to all establishments, she probably wouldn’t visit with him.

DRINKING is the real infidelity.

Your relationship is doomed while one or both are using.

I’m not naïve or ignoring OM. Maybe she quits drinking but keeps OM. Maybe they both have a Come to Jesus moment, get sober and become missionaries in Africa. But while she is drinking then THAT infidelity will be active, and to keep that infidelity active she will use her "less" infidelity with OM.

From what I read her fantasy with OM seems like a fantasy of returning to a (heavily romanticized) version of her previous boozy lifestyle. Do you see elements of this playing out here? If so, what are the implication?

Of course while drinking she wants to return to the best of her previous alcoholic lifestyle. Maybe she’s forgotten the past of being passed out, vomit, shakes, and precarious situations. She only remembers the camaraderie and the warmth she experiences from the second to the twelfth drink.

I have heard this from two very close relatives that were both alcoholic/addicts (incidentally – one died in a work-accident, a moment of carelessness that could easily be attributed to the bender he went on the days before, and the other died of an overdose... As per my previous comment about active addiction being a fatal disease).

An alcoholic is constantly thinking of his next drink. Where, how, when.
Like when I buy a sixpack of beer I’m not thinking this will last for a day, or when and where do I get my next sixpack. I just put it in the fridge and then have a beer when I want one. My sensibilities will stop me from having one for breakfast, or chugging one before driving to the store, or having a can to quench my thirst before heading to bed. When I reach for a can and discover there is none left – I might add it as a line-item on the purchase list for tomorrow or the day after.
Both my afore-mentioned relatives told me (on separate occasions) that when they buy a sixpack they already thought out how long it might last, and what to do when it’s finished. They reach in and find nothing, they tell their partners that they are going to the store to get bread and milk... only to come home with beer. Oh... and a quart of vodka because they had a bit of cash on them. Their thought process is constantly where do I get the NEXT drink?

If you stand in the way of your GF and her drink... she will use the enabler to get her fix. The only question in my mind is who the enabler is going to be – You or OM.

I really appreciated Pogres post and didn’t look sideways at him for his contribution. If anything – it simply shows how complex this illness is. Some can differentiate between "pure" alcoholics and those with drinking "issues". Like I had an issue with my drinking-pattern, but could quit, break the pattern, was sober for nearly a year and since then have been a responsible drinker with no issue. I don’t consider myself alcoholic.
I also know of people that quit without any help and have remained sober for decades.
I guess we can dispute what "functional" is. Like a driver is fully "functional" if he speeds at 110mph up to the very second he slams into a brick wall. Becomes very dysfunctional upon impact. Maybe the silver-lining is that it was a wall, and not the rear of a soccer-mom’s van headed homewards with the team.

I said that I never cheated on my wife, however...

Bigger wrote:

DRINKING is the real infidelity.

Maybe I did, but instead of a person, alcohol was my mistress. As much as it pains me to admit it, I often did prioritize drinking over her. It wasn't right, and I feel awful about it still to this day over a decade later. It's amazing she stuck it out with me, and honestly it's a factor in my decision to stay. She stayed with me when she had good reason not to. There's a part of me that feels like I owe her at least this 2nd chance. She's given me plenty of them. We talk often about my drinking back then, and we're both very happy I don't anymore. She's ecstatic about it.

For the record, I can count how many times my wife has gotten drunk on one hand and have fingers left over. She stuck it out with me because she loved me, and I truly believe she still does, despite her infidelity.

I really appreciated Pogres post and didn’t look sideways at him for his contribution. If anything – it simply shows how complex this illness is.

I really appreciate that you appreciated that, Bigger. It is complex, and it's worse than anyone still in its grip realizes.

The part I thought you might side-eye me about was the "functional alcoholic" description I gave for myself. I don't believe I was all that functional anymore. I was just good at powering through it and not getting too sloppy. I was far from in control, tho, and I think the definition of "functional" in that context is very debatable.

All that said, BrokenThoughts, I think there's a lot of wisdom in Bigger's post(s). Alcoholism is a serious disease and a relationship killer. It's not to be taken lightly.

I think she’s trickle truthing you pretty hardcore.
I don’t believe anyone would write what she’s written in her journal without quite a bit of sexual contact. I’m sorry. I hope I am wrong but I don’t think I am.
The only person I would expect to write stuff like that without much more going on would be a 5th grader daydreaming.

Changing the passcode and decoupling from other devices shows an effort to remain in secrecy. This is action of someone who is still in an affair.

At this point I would probably not bring up the journal. She’ll just lie more to your face. I would however make a polygraph a requirement for you not to leave the relationship. That’s where I’d ask the questions about the journal. You need the truth so you can make a fact based decision on what you want to do and I don’t think this present course will get you the truth.

Sounds to me like you are making progress and she is too, although her progress is hard to be sure of because of the drinking and her pretty extreme journal entries.

What if you asked her to show you her journal entries about him? And to do it right now, without deletion or change. If she said no (likely) then how might you reply? Perhaps that not showing tells you there was a lot more to her feelings. And that she is unwilling to confront the truth of the matter with you.

To her credit, she did admit it was more of an EA than just a friendship. That is positive and something some WS never do. And your analysis to me makes sense that there was likely no sex. Not 100% but the journal makes little sense if there was sex. If all that is true, then she may be willing to disclose the extent of the EA.

If you stay with her, this situation leads to something she must be willing to confront... Committed women shouldn't be hanging out with male friends without their man present. I know some people will disagree with that but not too many people here at SI will disagree. It is a boundary that protects the marriage or partnership. Will she agree to that? I would ask her to read Not Just Friends and to talk to you about what she thinks about it. It will confront her behavior directly. It's another way (indirect) to get at the journal information too. Her response would be important to know imo.

I have never been comfortable with coworkers going out drinking together nor am I comfortable with a woman going out with others if it's mixed company.

Ever since my wife's affair I set a hard boundary of no going out with coworkers if it's mixed company and if she is out with female coworkers and male coworkers show up then she either leaves or calls me to join her

Now I am not naive, she could be out with female coworkers and male coworkers could show up and she says nothing to me but that is a possibility in every relationship from day one

We discussed this very topic with our MC. She asked if your wife was out with a female friend and the female friend noticed a male friend of hers at the same place, invited him over to join them would you be okay with that and I said yes if it was only to say hi for a minute. I followed that up with if the male friend says hang on, let me call my friend Joe over, that to me has now become a double date regardless of marital status and I am not okay with that and the only solution is to tell her female friend that if these guys are staying at the table then she is leaving

Some people will say your wife / husband should be able to go anywhere with anyone and you trust them and in Fantasyland that would be true but here in reality that opens the door for an affair especially when you mix a social setting with alcohol

Alcohol lowers inhibitions and friendly conversation turns into innuendo being thrown about which leads to you know what

Hey all, thanks for the replies. I want to get back to some of the things you guys said, but first I have another pretty major update.

So shit basically just hit the fan.

After she falls asleep last night, I check her devices again. Still can't get into her phone, but her Imessage must have recoupled at least a few threads or something (I use android so I have no idea how that system works). I see a bunch of new texts between her and OM, less than 24 hours after she promised not to. I also see a thread with another friend talking about the situation. The friend asks "so ur really gonna give up OM?", to which my gf replies "na, giving up OM was never an option" and "I was just talking to him right now". And then a "no one stops me from getting what I want" kicker.

Something snapped inside of me at that moment. I saw absolute RED.

I grabbed a pile of her clothes and the journal, woke her up out of her drunken sleep (which wasn't easy) and threw everything in her face. I started screaming "GET THE FUCK OUT!" at her. I yell her that I know that she was in contact with OM today, and that I found her "love letters". I start quoting passages from it at her. She tries to get up and hug me and say "babe, it's not what you think" but I push her back against the couch. I almost pushed her too hard but I was able to kind of catch her and cushion the fall before she hurt herself. Definitely not trying to catch a battery charge or something over this shit.

She goes into a whole "You read my journal?" thing and asks why I need to "spy on her 24/7". I say it's because she's been lying to me, and in the previous 17 years of our relationship I never felt the need to act that way at all. She says "ok, so I have feelings for him" in a way that implies I'm making a big deal over nothing. We then devolve into a shouting match where she goes back and forth between "I love you", "I need you", "I chose you", "please don't leave me" mixed with "How dare you spy on me", "this wouldn't have happened if you hadn't checked out of the relationship", "How can you do this when you know I'm already stressed" and "how can you not trust me after all these years?" type stuff (to that last one I just yelled "BECAUSE YOU LIE CONSTANTLY!"). She barely makes a mention about the stress and hurt that her actions have caused me. I spend some time yelling back at her until I get tired. Then I start just letting her babel on while I stare blankly and say "uh - huh".

Then she tries to give me an excuse for the journal. Now, I know all of you here at SI have heard some pretty crazy explanations from WSs in your time, but I think I might have one for the hall of fame guys...

So she says that she's been seeing psychics for "guidance" about what to do about OM and me, and that one of them gave her an "exercise". She said she was told to write down what an "alternate timeline" would look like with OM (she also claimed that she was told to keep another journal of me, which she kept in the office or something?). Needless to say this makes absolutely no sense within the context of what she was writing.

She says that, after writing it out, she gained clarity and realized that all the things she wrote down were actually things she wants from me. Oh, and I'm also supposed to feel better because she asked one of the psychics who her real soul mate was and the psychic pulled a tarot card or something that told her that her soul mate would have an M in his name (my first initial). On a side note this whole thing is really weird because I've never known her to be the type of person who consults psychics or put much stock into that type of stuff.

Her tone gets less defiant after that and turns more into a lot of things like "I love you more than words", "I choose you and I'll always choose you", "You're the only one I want", "You're the one I want to spend the rest of my life with" and "I need you in my life and I can't live without you" type of stuff, mixed in with a healthy dose of begging me not to leave. Every time she tells me she loves me, I just tell her that "yes I still love you but I don't trust you". She also accuses me of not really loving her, and that the only reason I'm making a big deal out of this is because I want to use it as a pretense to dump her. Needless to say, this couldn't be further from the truth. This goes on for hours with me mostly just sitting silently, and occasionally offering some very mild comfort just to get her to calm down.

Things mostly just went in circles during this time but a couple of things stood out. I asked why she contacted OM and she said it was because she "doesn't like ultimatums". This is true, and she's always had somewhat of a defiant and rebellious personality, but I really don't care. Proving to me that I could trust her and that she really only wants to be with me should have been enough of a reason to make an exception. She also said she didn't want to dead a good friend. I really don't care. I tell her "well I hope it was a REAL good conversation - enough to be worth wrecking our whole relationship over".

She also said she had a conversation with her dad (the aforementioned cheater in the family) where she discussed our situation. She said her dad told her to tell me everything because, if I found out on her own, I would never be able to look at her the same way (guess he knows what he's talking about here). She also said her dad told her that she's not like him [her dad] because she didn't actually go through with the affair. She says that she was getting ready to tell me before I found out. Obviously I found this a little convenient.

She also reiterates a few times that she didn't "do anything" with him. She even says "I could have, but I didn't" I actually think this might be part of her hang up here - she really believes that she did "good" just by not having a PA with him, and she doesn't think she's done anything wrong in this situation. Although that would only hold if she really did avoid the PA with him, which who knows at this point.

By this time we've been arguing through the whole night and it's time for her to go to work. Normally I'd go with her, but today I just tell her that I can't look at or listen to her any more. She again starts crying and refusing to leave, begging me not to leave her. I tell her that we might be able to talk later to work things out, but that I really needed some time away from her to think. She still refuses to go, coming up and grabbing on to me like the only life boat in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. Again, she keeps this up for hours before she finally goes (luckily she's self employed and doesn't need to come in at any particular time unless she has a client to meet, which she didn't today).

Yea so that's where we're at now. I feel like it's been smoldering in me for a little while now, but there was just something about the flippant and defiant way she broke NC within 24 hours of promising me it and bragging to her friends about it that just flipped a switch in me. It's not like she tried to do NC and then caved - she clearly had no intention of doing NC from the very beginning and lied straight to my face about it. I swear I'm really not usually the "let it build up in me until it explodes" kind of person, but I really haven't felt like myself since this whole thing happened. She's begging me for another chance, but I really don't know right now. Reconciliation feels a long way off right now, and I really don't know if I even want it at this point.

Sorry, I'll write something more thoughtful later. Things are just very raw inside me right now and I just wanted to get it out. And, for the record, still made it through with my sobriety in tact - 9 days and counting.

[This message edited by Brokenthoughts at 1:28 AM, Thursday, January 15th]

End this.

Stay sober.

End this.

Best wishes.

Wow, she really came up with some tired old excuses and some new excuses for the Cheaters Handbook! Keep up the sobriety. Realize you are not your normal self because you are trying to make sense of a situation rife with lies and cognitive dissonance.

She told her friend her underlying bottom line. She always gets what she wants. She wants to be an alcoholic and she will continue to drink. She wants to keep you on the hook while she pursues her AP. Check! She will say anything, manipulate you as much as she can get away with, to keep doing what she wants. I know you have many years invested in this relationship. I would tell her your bottom line: you want an honest, sober, faithful partner that you can trust and doesn’t lie to you.

Quite frankly I don’t see much hope of her meeting your requirements. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:19 AM, Thursday, January 15th]

Thanks for your guys' thoughts on my last post. I'll try to address a couple of them now.

Bigger - thanks again for the thoughtful answer. I am in full agreement that the drinking is the main problem here, and that there's no shot at making any of this work with her in active addiction. I was gearing up to push her to go back to detox as soon as the holiday was over, but this just hit me like an absolute ton of bricks right now. Like I can't even think about anything else right now, let alone focus on a conversation about her getting sober.

However, now that it looks like the initial confrontations are finally through, if she's still begging for me to take her back, I know with 100% certainty that any road to any possible reconciliation starts with a stop to our friendly neighborhood detox and plenty of meetings. She knows that too, I already threated to leave once over her drinking, which is why she got sober the first time. I'm definitely ready and willing to do it again if need be. If anything, this latest episode gives me more leverage to push her into sobriety, or an easier excuse if I have to exit.

I also remembered your comment about using a quasi affair to take the attention off the drinking while I sat with her for a few drinks on Monday. I was like "is that's what's happening here?". Well don't worry, it won't work. I don't even like drinking anymore, so I'm definitely not putting up with that shit for any kind of extended period of time.

And yes, I had the exact same thoughts reading the journal as you did - that it sounded like a dream of returning to a very romanticized version of her previous boozy existence (I think I even used the word "boozy" in my head lol). Actually it reminds me of the kinds of things we would do and talk about when I used to drink with her. I stopped around the time that her drinking really got out of control, which was during the pandemic. I didn't feel the need to quit, it just wasn't enjoyable to me anymore so I stopped. Her problem is probably a big part of what made it lose it's fun for me.

But yeah, this does tell me that she doesn't really want to leave that boozy lifestyle behind. Like it's pretty hard for me to see her doing all the things she needs to do to get and stay sober while also making changes I need from her so that I can trust her again in the relationship. It's still really hard, because even through all this, there is still a part of me that loves this girl and doesn't want to see her go. But, as I alluded to in the post before my last one, I'm getting myself ready to do whatever has to be done.

Pogre - I wasn't trying to say I believe she would never cheat because she's "not the type" just that I know her well enough that I would expect her to feel some guilt/ embarrassment if she did, especially with all the talk she's put out into the world about hating cheaters, and that I'm pretty sure this would lead her to go to greater lengths to hide what she's doing if she did do something like that. But everything I've found so far has been right in front of me, waiting for me to find it. Also, I definitely agree with you that the kiss was certainly a bigger deal than she's letting on. I'm definitely not considering the door "closed" on that case - I can definitely be wrong. It's just what I think for now.

It almost doesn't matter though. This EA is extremely bad - possibly worse for me than if she had had a one time physical encounter with someone she met at the bar. This is her literally falling head over heels in love with another guy while she's basically been treating me like shit for the last 2 months. That part is unmistakable.

And yea, she's definitely in that place right now where she doesn't realize the depths of the illness because she's in it. And I definitely agree that the term functional alcoholic is a misnomer - the general public almost has a romanticized view of it, like they're imagining living in the world of Mad Men or something. But anyone with experience knows that the "functional" label just means that you have managed to avoid completely ruining your life up until that point, although that time comes eventually if it's not treated.

Trdd - It's so sad. I did feel that she was moving towards honesty. I was also happy that she was willing to confess to it being an EA, and felt there might be somewhere we might be able to make some progress. But this incredibly flippant violation of NC has erased that to me. I'm not saying it's 100% officially dead, but it's hard for me to see reconciliation right now. The only possible way it can happen is if she both quits drinking AND actually commits to NC, but it's getting hard for me to see her doing all of that right now.

And I think you had some good ideas about how to bring up the journal - too bad I'll never get to try any of them now lol. Everything is out on the table. I guess I lied and told her that I had only just looked at it after seeing she broke NC, but after all the lies she's told up until this point, I really don't feel that bad.

And maybe I will check out that "not just friends" book. I think a few people have recommended it now. And please keep commenting, Your thoughts on this have been really helpful so far.

OhItsYou - you were definitely spot on about her changing of her password being a sign that she intends to break NC. Nailed that one on the head!

WB1340 - We never needed to have boundaries like that over our 17 years. Yes, boundaries will definitely need to be increased IF we decide to reconcile (which is a big IF at this point). Still, I can't imagine being in a relationship with someone I trusted so little that I felt I had to have boundaries THAT strict with her.

Although, if she does get sober (which is a pre-requisite) she won't have any reason to hang around any bar with anyone, male or female.

Thanks again to anyone who took the time to read or reply. I look forward to see what else you have to say