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Thumos - good for you. There are so many worthwhile nuggets in your plan.

learn how to be happy without relying on your WW's cooperation

Yes!!! That's the work we must do. We should not rely on anyone else for our happiness. This may be the biggest lesson of surviving infidelity. This will put you on the right track. It's a hard part of the journey but once there you will feel so great.

Sex at this point is simply muddying the waters and not allowing me to think clearly. I need to be in "monk mode" for a bit.

This is interesting to me. Until my WS could empathize with me, physical intimacy was impossible for the reasons you state. It made me feel awful - like I was being used. It happened to send a strong message at the same time which was a way of putting up a boundary that was important to me. I hope it has the intended results for you. It isn't a punishment as you say...it is a natural consequence of behavior that is unwanted.

I'll be moving forward with the post nup offer from my wife. I'm pretty naïve about what these actually look like, so if anyone has any tangible suggestions on this, I'm all ears and eyes.

The important part of the post nup is to understand its purpose. It is not associated with behavior nor fault. So if that is your intention you'll need another vehicle. It is intended to split assets according to terms that are mutually agreed upon by both parties. That means if there is a perceived unfairness or change in division of assets from your state's normal laws in the case of D, that you agree upon it and are adequately advised of your rights during the post nup process. It is advisable you both have lawyers to draft the document for this reason. You want to close the loop and prevent either party from claiming they agreed to it under duress and/or were not aware of their rights.

It is intended to split assets according to terms that are mutually agreed upon by both parties.

Yes this is my intent and part of why I'm seeing the D attorney next week.

Guys, any thoughts on what to look for in a good D attorney?

I’d get a free consult from 3.

In a divorce lawyer, I want references from trusted sources and a good rapport with the attorney who knew his shit and could give me a realistic outcome. But then again - I didn’t get to that point but those were my thoughts when it was my next logical step.

I wanted to make an observation about OBS and I know it’s not the current trajectory you’re on - but isn’t it weird...that after her dday, she agrees to move closer to her husbands AP? I mean, I live in a very small semi-detached house which means I have no window in the bathroom or kitchen and I hate it...but if I’d been offered the house of my dreams but would need to live within a mile of the OW in my sitch - no way in hell I’m taking the offer. I want physical distance between my WH and the OW, yet OBS agreed to this. So weird.

That just struck me as odd. I don’t think I’ve seen a BW knowingly move into the OW’s neighbourhood here on SI...especially not when they have the means to build elsewhere.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:45 PM, January 10th (Friday)]

That just struck me as odd. I don’t think I’ve seen a BW knowingly move into the OW’s neighbourhood here on SI...especially not when they have the means to build elsewhere.

Well they didn’t have the means to move elsewhere. My WW’s AP is not wealthy, but his daddy is. AP has mooched off the largesse of his daddy and works for him. Before they moved into their new house, they lived about the same distance away from us as now. But in any case, this was land daddy owned and he offered to build it there.

I think the shorter explanation is that OBS seems to be a rather shallow person who cheated on her first husband with my wife’s AP. So it’s a nest of cheaters and she’s one of them. Her trade off of getting a new luxury home in exchange for accepting her husband is a philanderer seems to make more sense if you look at it in that light.

I see - the available land already existed.

I think it’s ironic though, that as soon as I commented about moving into the neighbourhood, a thread directly above yours was from a BW wanting to move to the OW’s! Completely different circumstances So different from OBS - but the timing of the thread was strange!

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:30 AM, January 11th (Saturday)]

I'd like to talk to a divorce attorney first because, to be honest, I have no understanding of what the reality of the divorce process looks like at all. I've never given it a thought in my life and it's a mystery to me.

A therapeutic separation might be beneficial, but again I'm not a selfish twit and there are children to consider here and the impact adult actions have on them.

Thumos,

Talking to an attorney (or 3) is by far the best thing you could do for yourself right now. Just as you need to know what you are forgiving you need to know your options. Your WW agreed to a postnup, correct? Make sure you ask your lawyers how much weight they carry where you live. Many places they seem useless because the wayward spouse claims they signed under duress.

In regards to the bolded. I'm sure you realize that your children will be more permanently damaged living in a home full of distrust and disdain than dealing with divorced parents. Your wife has screwed up any chance of them having the normal life they would have, and unless you are a an academy award-winning actor there is nothing you can do about that fact. The toothpaste is out of the tube.

Speaking of disdain, did her disdain for you just vanish? Besides the sex that would be the hardest part for me to eat. I have got to give you credit for some serious compartmentalization skills. I'm not sure how you can deal with ALL of the many lines your wife crossed and then her remorseless non-empathetic way of addressing them post-facto. I am glad to see you moving in a direction of relief. It's obvious by all of your well thought out posts you know what you should be doing. Your pain from being in limbo is palpable in almost every one of your posts.

I wish you relief, preferably for your benefit, away from your wife.

(This is one of the longest replies I have ever written. I guess your long detailed posts inspired that.)

p.s. Nice tagline. Seems familiar.

[This message edited by RubixCubed at 10:03 AM, January 11th (Saturday)]

Your wife has screwed up any chance of them having the normal life they would have, and unless you are a an academy award-winning actor there is nothing you can do about that fact. The toothpaste is out of the tube.

I don’t know why but for some reason this morning this comment cut thru the white noise of my own fears and rationalizations about my kids and divorce. Thank you for that.

No worries.

For someone who is suffering like you are, you have incredible insights and post accurate advice to others. I could be mistaken but I feel that a good percentage of those telling you to "practice what you preach" are doing so because you obviously have a really good handle on the big picture stuff as well as the minutiae. As it pains you to see others on JFO suffering through the abuse, it pains the people here seeing you abused. Some just don't express it very well.

It would be extremely interesting if there was some kind of metric to measure everyone's dealbreakers and study what makes some more tolerant of abuse than others. Back to your kids for a second. If you eat the shit sandwich and stay with your WW do you want your kids growing up thinking that is a healthy adult relationship and pursuing that same situation when dating and marrying? None of this is on you, hence there really isn't much YOU can do to fix it or erase it. It's a grim thought but it's reality.

From page 30 of the thread:

“I'm able to have a much healthier attitude overall, I don't feel wrapped up in the endless questioning drama, and I'm not guilty at all about seeking other relationships at this point. That's where I am.”

If I’m reading this correctly (if not, I apologize), you are indicating you might seek another relationship? Please don’t, unless you have a finalized D.

As far as attorneys: I’ve retained one of the three I interviewed, although I’m still not sure what I might be dealing with in my M. I chose one with a sense of humor who also has a reputation for playing a very good hardball game. And free consults? Not in my city, if you want a top-notch firm. But it was worth the money for the insights I gained.

If I’m reading this correctly (if not, I apologize), you are indicating you might seek another relationship? Please don’t, unless you have a finalized D.

You're reading it correctly. Yes, I've considered it. No, I haven't acted on it. That's where my head is at now. But I have not had an RA. And I don't have a specific one in mind.

Errmmmm.....

And I don't have a specific one in mind.

Gently now.... it would be better if you don't have one in mind (I know it is tough, and revenge thoughts will always lurk at the back of you mind) until you are no longer in a relationship with your WW.

It will damage your moral compass, and your integrity. It is bad enough that your kids had a parent that had no integrity, no point making it both their parents having no integrity.

Edit: Typo

[This message edited by RocketRaccoon at 3:23 AM, January 15th (Wednesday)]

Gently now.... it would be better if you don't have one in mind (I know it is tough, and revenge thoughts will always lurk at the back of you mind) until you are no longer in a relationship with your WW.

It will damage your moral compass, and your integrity. It is bad enough that your kids had a parent that had no integrity, no point making it both their parents having no integrity.

I do understand. Just to be clear I've thought thru the ethics of this over the past three years. I've been tempted, but less for a traditional "revenge affair" to get back at my WW and simply bc the specialness with her is gone and I don't know how to get it back.

I meet successful attractive women all the time who are giving me "pings" and all the cues that they are reciprocally attracted to me. And I think, "gee here's a great lady and -- bonus -- she's never cheated on me!"

So while I've been tempted, it's less to "get back" at my wife than just to experience a new relationship with a woman I can admire.

Now that said, I've thought through the ethics and completely understand it would bring more burdens and complications into the existing relationship with my wife. I would certainly never contemplate it with a married woman (bringing pain to another faithful man) and why would I do it with a single woman I wasn't serious about and only hurt her?

So I haven't done it. The temptation is definitely there, however, and I'd be intellectually dishonest if I said otherwise. Just being transparent with you all.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:53 AM, January 15th (Wednesday)]

I intend to keep posting in JFO just as I have. Not backing away. I hope people in JFO can learn from my mistakes and avoid a painful limbo that I find myself in. If I can save one person from that, I'll be a happy man. I don't think that's hypocritical at all.

A little belated response on my part, but I agree so so SOOO much with this. And I do the same thing. Gah, I remember when I first landed in JFO and how hard it was writing it all down, and also how every fiber of my being did NOT want to take all those steps. For me? I really wish I had. It would have ended my suffering a lot quicker.

I'm with you - I offer up my thoughts in JFO when something speaks to me and if I can help ONE BS take the path I wish I had... that is a post well typed for me.

FWIW Thumos, I often find myself nodding/smiling at your advice and I have almost always found it very pertinent and have always found it very honest and straightforward. I don't have a doubt that you have definitely helped BS's (especially BH's) in JFO.

Also just my 0.02, but wait on starting anything else until things are more clear. I know you know that, but just wanted to throw it out there.

Hi - just catching up. I think your therapist has helped you develop a very good plan for you. It's interesting but it sounds a bit like what we have been talking about in the other thread where the ww sex bombs the spouse and it becomes confusing. Sex does create intimacy and sometimes it's false. It will be a worthwhile experiment I believe.

And, I think knowing how all the divorce stuff works is something you will benefit from greatly. I know my husband went through that process and it gave him peace of mind because we fear the unknown the most.

It's interesting but it sounds a bit like what we have been talking about in the other thread where the ww sex bombs the spouse and it becomes confusing.

I do believe sex bombing has occurred in my case, tho perhaps not intentionally by her. It's on offer every day, sometimes twice a day. It's been one long extended hysterical bonding. I need it. She offers it. But it makes me feel very ambivalent, along with, of course mind movies and the loss of specialness.

I greatly admire the discipline and commitment you are showing, while getting sex bombed. I've never won against sex. It's undefeated against me.

Following up on a point addressed a page ago.

I don't see hypocrisy in your posts.

I do see a certain amount of dogmatism, however. That is, you know something about what doesn't work - what you've done has left you in limbo and in pain. That is quite different from knowing what will work. You've taken one path out of many available paths. You don't have experience with the other paths. That's true for all of us.

That's why I think the most useful and most accurate posts take the form of: 'This is what I did. These are the results I got.'

I do see a certain amount of dogmatism, however.

True

Man, you know it?

Dogmatism interferes with being kind to yourself.

Give yourself a break, Thumos. You probably don't need dogma to keep yourself within your moral boundaries. The kinder you are to yourself, the easier it may be to maintain your boundaries (personal and moral).

Besides, you've been betrayed. Your recovery may be hastened by increasing kindness to yourself. Once you've recovered, you can go back to being dogmatic if you want to.

Your choice, of course. It looks like your recovery has taken a quantum leap in the last few weeks.

But - but - but - you're probably a perfectionist, and there are imperfections in every dogma.