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and try to get my wife to understand her work isn't her value as a person

It’s pretty obvious to me and others that in fact she already “gets” this. She’s feeding you a line because it protects her ability to nurture an ongoing affair that has now headed into deep sub rosa territory. She’s not confused. She knows exactly what you want and why. She knows her feeble protests are based on a whack-a-doodle rationale she pulled out of her hiney.

She gets it. She’s just not willing to do it for you.

So this is less about “try to get my wife to understand” and much more about whether you will continue to tolerate “the beatings will continue until the morale improves” stance your wife has toward you.

I got my wife a blank card (on the inside, butterfly on the outside) with a little message inside that said something along the lines of, "I love you and I want us to work. I hope to get you something better next year."
She got me actually nothing.
Her actions do speak much louder than her words.
We're going on vacation, and my plan is to just enjoy it. Afterwards, I'll be all rejuvenated and ready to begin preparations for battle. I almost got a sense that she is anticipating this as well.
It's quite unfortunate. I have my own reasons for continuing to stick to my timeline.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:50 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:44 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

What was her reaction when you gave her the card? Did she ignore it or did she give you a reason for not acknowledging VD? This speaks volumes.

She said the card was cryptic. I said it was very direct. I thought about doing nothing but I thought that would be less clear. Her reason for doing nothing was negligence. She said she didn't even realize until the commute back home (which is of course pure horseshit). What, no one at work was delivered or buying flowers?

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:50 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:44 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Please. She didn't forget it was Valentine's day. Its widely advertised on RV,online,social media, at the grocery store, etc,etc.

She chose not to give anything.

I will hand it to her. Her actions are constantly consistent for a wayward that is unremorseful.

Her excuses for her shitty behavior are ridiculous. She is treating you as if she thinks you are a fool.

Either she is still in her affair, or she simply does not care anymore.

She got me actually nothing.

Women don’t normally forget these things.

Her actions tell you what?

Hopium at this time will just get you an extended stay in limbo. Make no mistake you are the only one that will keep yourself tied up in this.

I want her to want to make good decision, not to want to stay with me. I don't want her acting out of fear of the unknown

Here's the rub: That's not what you have with her. She's given you push back over just about every boundary you have set. You've had to talk her in to every good decision she's made. It's obvious that she's just making decisions not to lose you at this point because she's not going above and beyond to prove to you that she wants this to work. I couldn't imagine not getting my spouse anything for Valentine's day and I especially couldn't imagine doing it when our marriage is at risk. Does she usually not do anything for Valentine's day or was it just this one for some reason?

There's nothing wrong with her acting out of fear right now and wanting to keep her marriage to you. She should be scared. She should be taking this as a wake up call to step up and prove that she wants you and she wants R. Doing it for herself will come with time when she actually starts applying herself to R. She's not there yet and unfortunately she's not even at the point of worrying about her losing her marriage because she's completely lackadaisical in her approach to your boundaries and proving she's worth it.

What's important is that you accept the reality of what she's doing and not make excuses for her. Her response to VDay is a good example of that because it's not because she didn't know. She'd have to be living under a rock and talking to no one not to know. And even if she did make that mistake, an engaged spouse doesn't just brush it off with an excuse. They apologize and tell you how they're going to make it up to you. And they thank you for getting a card and reiterating your commitment to them instead of worrying about reading between the lines. That says it's all about her and her feelings. You barely factored in. Not even enough for a thank you. That says everything you need to know about where your relationship is right now and it's not good.

Why are you so scared of rocking the boat with her? Why do you accept crumbs from her? What is holding you back from 180'ing her putting yourself first? Why do you feel such a strong need to control her by making her understand anything?

Brother she has made her decision, not even a card!

Buffer

She got me actually nothing.

Her actions do speak much louder than her words.

We're going on vacation, and my plan is to just enjoy it. Afterwards, I'll be all rejuvenated and ready to begin preparations for battle. I almost got a sense that she is anticipating this as well.

It's quite unfortunate. I have my own reasons for continuing to stick to my timeline.

Brother, almost no woman ever forgets Valentine’s Day - especially not one who cheats and is allegedly trying to win her husband back.

I hope you received this message loud and clear because it was intentional and unmistakable.

do you wonder if she got the OM anything? I would look at card statements, cash withdrawals and check card activity.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:09 PM, February 16th (Sunday)]

She said she didn't even realize until the commute back home (which is of course pure horseshit). What, no one at work was delivered or buying flowers?

Your words above. It's horseshit, just like everything else she is feeding you. And youre just OK with it all.

What everyone here is wondering is when you stop eating the horseshit.

Is she doing ANYTHING to make you believe she wants to save the marriage???????

You know what you have to do, just do it!!!!

Good luck and stay strong!!!!

If you want to give her a chance, tell her that you are going through with the divorce but AFTER the divorce, she is free to try and win you back.

Tell her this marriage is dead. She killed it, but you will bury it. BUT, if she wants to try again, she can do it after you become single.

"...an arrangement where I just go with her to the hotel and remote into work or take PTO?"

So rather than enforcing your demands, you're going to tag along so she doesn't 'accidentally' screw the other man? And she needs to be there why? She can call in sick.

"Would be better if she just quit her job."

You think? Would be even better if you'd make and enforce your lines-in-the-sand.

"So, the risk adjusted pain of divorce is currently higher than the risk adjusted pain of my wife keeping her job (assuming the A isn't ongoing). She has done enough other things that I am comfortable enough to keep trying to get her head out of her ass on true NC."

Still allowing the train and home-wrecker to drive the train?

You're afraid of losing her and she knows it. You're still playing the pick-me game and you're still losing. There comes a point in life where it's necessary to damn-the-torpedoes in order to keep your self worth. Leaders aren't created by always taking the 'safe' option.

Shedding a cheater doesn't doom you to a lonely life. I think you would find that it would actually free you to become better and stronger than you ever thought you could be. You have more value and abilities than you realize. I hope that you'll give yourself a chance to prove your worth. Take care of yourself. I wish the best for you.

So, you’re planning on going to her conference in May to make sure she doesn’t hookup and fuck her POSOM – someone she admittedly still has feelings for. God, that’s just pathetic. I know you’ll probably come back with some sort of analysis and statistics that your decision to do this is actually the best course of action. Seriously, is this how you want to live your life? If you follow through with this, she’ll most likelt lose whatever little respect she has for you.

I am saddened to read of this update @This0is0Fine. But I must also admit that I am not at all surprised. Your wayward wife never struck me as remorseful, instead she struck me as someone just going through the motions. What your wife said in your MC session a while back about feeling guilt and shame and even sorry that you are hurting, but not remorse about what she did. That and having negative feelings about the institution of marriage in general, said an awful lot.

Even if your WW only remembered Valentine's Day on the way home from work on Friday--as if!--she still could have stopped into any CVS and gotten you a card and maybe some chocolates, and written out something nice. As much as it pains me to say this, I wonder whether she spent February 14th pining for OM, even if they were not in any contact.

You should go back and reread this thread too. You seemed a lot more resolved a couple of months ago. All you have done since then unfortunately has been caving and then rationalizing it. She has since crossed your redlines on pretty much EVERYTHING, and yet here you are.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:39 PM, February 18th (Tuesday)]

Has your BIL been told the truth yet?

If you won't tell him because you are afraid of your wife,or her reaction, and if you won't tell him because of your situational integrity, then tell him because his health is at risk.

Your cheating SIL has not gotten tested for stds. That's something cheaters don't typically do,unless caught. And, even if she did,and the results were negative,it does not mean she didn't pass something to him. Sometimes that happens.

Evil prevails when good men do nothing.

Are you a good man?

Your cheating SIL has not gotten tested for stds.

I was wondering about this as well: TIF I cant remember, did you ask your WW to take a full STD panel to assure you she hadn't slept with OM and passed something on to you?

If not, have you thought about asking?

Her reaction will speak volumes. If she says, "I don't need to do that, because I didn't sleep with him" then your response should be "then you should have no problem doing one to reassure me."

At least in your own case, you KNOW your wife was actively pursuing another man for sex and in all likelihood had sex with him. So in your case, you now have agency to decide what to do with your life because you know the reality of it.

As it is right now, however, with your BIL he is literally twisting in the wind. He doesn't even know he's married to and sleeping with someone who has put his physical health at risk!

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:44 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]

I got my wife a blank card (on the inside, butterfly on the outside) with a little message inside that said something along the lines of, "I love you and I want us to work. I hope to get you something better next year."

She got me actually nothing.

Her actions do speak much louder than her words.

We're going on vacation, and my plan is to just enjoy it. Afterwards, I'll be all rejuvenated and ready to begin preparations for battle. I almost got a sense that she is anticipating this as well.

It's quite unfortunate. I have my own reasons for continuing to stick to my timeline.

You tried to play a manipulation game with someone who knows how to manipulate you.

Guess how that ended? Who won that game?

The reason the 180 exists is that you are fighting a heavyweight boxer...and you aren't in their league.

In reading your descriptions, you seem to care about your WW a lot more than she cares about you or your M.

The one who loves the least controls the most. She is in control because she doesn't care all that much if she loses you or the M...or she doesn't think you have the guts to burn the M down.

Either way, she doesn't respect you. Her perception is that you are weak willed, take half measures, and are unwilling to decisively end this. Soft, open ended, and wishy washy implied threats to do something about the affair are not going to work.

What will work? You know the answer...you may not like the answer...but you know it.

I apologize in advance that I'm not going to give a updates for a while. Prudence indicates keeping my thoughts and intentions to myself for some time.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:50 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:45 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Well, that sucks, TIF. Sending good thoughts and (yes) prayers your way.

Hey TIF's WW, if you're lurking here, most of us here think you're minimizing, outright lying, gaslighting and worse. We don't buy your misappropriating feminist ideas in service of your moral morass. And there's something very off about your ability to cover for your SIL. Just so you know.