SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This Is So Fine

For those of you wondering, my eyes are wide open. There is the possibility that every action she has taken has been a lie, that the A is still ongoing (or she wants it to) and that all the progress is false recovery. That's why I'm not really counting anything as a victory yet here. Things just feel like they are progressing in the right direction.

No one here can possibly know if your wife is still lying, still in the affair, or still wants to be in the affair. To speculate is not very smart to do.

What we do know is what you have told us, namely,

(1) she had an inappropriate ( to put it mildly) relationship with another man that she works with that she was clearly the aggressor in

(2) that when confronted, her reaction was that it was no big deal because men ( not you) have done this forever and that women were entitled to it. You stated if it progressed to full intercourse you were done

(3) She refused to quit her job, and until recently refused to look for another one even though you told us that she would not argue that she was overworked and underpaid.

(4) she agreed and then refused a polygraph test. I might be wrong on this one. you gave us your analytical calculations as to the odds of just believing her were better

(5) she has surrounded herself with "friends" who are cheating on their husbands with the full knowledge of all of their little group.

(6) you SIL was cheating on her husband and your wife felt it was no big deal and resisted you informing him

if there is one thing that probably 99% of the folks here will agree on, it would be with that set of facts that it would not be prudent to take her word for most of it. But that is exactly what you have done, which is fine but is why i question your statement that your eyes are wide open. It's Ok to just accept it but to resist every suggestion, and I do not mean divorce, of getting the TRUTH a little naive.

Now all of a sudden, out of the clear blue sky, with no real explanation, she comes home and tells you she will quit her job or look for one, and how shamed and sorry she is has to make one wonder what the hell occurred. It's not like you file for divorce or did anything.

if she did not have contact with OM daily at work, have you wondered WHY all of a sudden going in to work every day triggered her. ???? Didn't trigger her for all this time. Guess a lightning bolt hit her, right.

My guess would be something involving Om caused this but my opinion is only one of many. But i sure as hell would be digging on that one if i were you.

If your BIL had gone nuclear on your SIL that would be at least a reason other than something with OM that maybe would be logical. That could scare her into reality, but you have not shared anything on that which is totally your right.

So here you are and you still have no idea if they had sex, how many times, or any other facts other than what SHE HAS TOLD you. And if she is still working there in May, they travel together again.

I'm happy yo're so happy but I m saying your eyes are far from wide open because unless you walk in on them you are unlikely to know what really has happened between them.

[This message edited by BeyondRage at 6:01 PM, March 8th (Sunday)]

BeyondRage,
I appreciate the summary, and as always your perspective.
1) Yep fully correct.
2) I think this is focusing on a single fight we had. We have discussed the affair a lot more since then and she is not doing any such society blaming. That said, yes, her first reaction was to run. Then she came back and gave into my demands, but then walked back on the job demand.
3) Yes, this has been extremely frustrating.
4) Yes, she actually suggested it after hearing about it as an option through our mutual friend. She also walked this back.
5) I don't know how many, but I know her sister has told her BH, and she talked to at least two others about it, and one of them informed her BH (this just happened).
6) She did not say it was no big deal. I think this mischaracterizes a divided loyalty vs. honesty fight. She did end up calling her sister and saying the SIL should tell BIL. I told BIL, two days later, my WW says SIL told BIL. I don't know what that confrontation looked like...
I'm not just taking her word for it. The set of text messages I have corroborate (but don't prove) that they didn't have sex yet (a text from her saying that if circumstances were different she would have sex with him). It's impossible to prove they didn't have sex. Even a passed poly wouldn't prove that. Likewise, a failed poly wouldn't prove they did.
I wouldn't call it out of the blue considering the progress we have made in MC (getting her to convince SIL to tell BIL) and that we were on vacation and could tell I still don't trust her like I did before. I don't know that I need an explanation other than her finally feeling real remorse and no longer being in self-protection mode. It's not hard to believe she actually saw the light. BUT, it is possible she just got dumped.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:47 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:39 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Quite possible she was denied a relationship by the AP.

Buffer

I know you love analytics...and how you can make stats say anything you want.

However...nothing beats ground truth.

Know how you get ground truth? You put them on a Poly. I say this as someone who deals with them fairly regularly on the job. A good examiner can give you a straight Yes/No to whether they are telling the truth overall. They do work.

If you need clarity and truth (you will eventually)...Poly her.

You only need 3 questions-

Are you lying to me.

Did you have sex with him.

Are you still in communication with him.

Easy, got the truth.

And meanwhile, has your wife found a new job yet. Saying "I am looking for other jobs" and sending out resumes is easy to do and looks good, but is no guarantee of anything.

My point of all this, in combination of what the others have said, is that it really is all about action. And as of now, even though your WW's words are showing some evidence that she may be getting things a bit more, she still has actually done very little.

Go easy on OP. He has a plan but he can't post it. His wife is ghosting on this forum. He'll be fine, its just going to take time to get there.

TIF has been 100% consistent in his approach, and his approach is right for him. We all feel mad about what his WW did, but I have a feeling that TIF knows what he is doing. I think that the longer he is steadfast and unmoving in what he wants, his WW's position will crumble progressively.

Might he be able to take more actively aggressive action? Yes, of course. However, it seems clear that his WW embarked on a foolish misadventure that may cost her a huge amount while delivering nothing whatsoever.

At some point she will realise what a total and utter idiot she has been. TIF is giving her the room to reach that inevitable conclusion.

And letting her go through that process may be a powerful thing. Let her reach certain conclusions herself.

I have to say that TIF would be a damn good friend to have. No matter what happens, he does not shift his core values. If you were backed into a corner, TIF would stand beside you. We should stand beside him. He may not be going 'scorched earth' on his WW, but he has informed his BIL about being cheated on, and his position in relation to his wife's work 'friendship' is clear and unambiguous.

I wish TIF well, and I hope his WW proves herself worthy of the love of a man like him.

[This message edited by M1965 at 6:05 PM, March 16th (Monday)]

^^^^^^Absolutely agree with M1965^^^^^

With COVID-19 everything is kinda on hold. Job hunting is basically out. We are both working from home and getting along well. Her May event is likely going to be cancelled so I can't really even use that as a demarcation.
It's limbo-ception.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:47 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:39 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

The event in May is officially cancelled. Wife is looking for jobs even though it's not the best time to look. I guess that's sort of positive.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:47 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:39 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

The event in May is officially cancelled. Wife is looking for jobs even though it's not the best time to look. I guess that's sort of positive.

I may be reading this wrong, but did she resume the job hunt only after the May event got officially cancelled?

She was looking. Then COVID hit and she took a pause, but then the event got cancelled (she was the main planner/facilitator, which is a key detail I think I've mentioned). So now she says there is really no major project she feels ownership of anymore and is wanting to get a different job. I don't believe her reasoning on the face of it, just to be clear.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:47 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:40 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

TIF

I don't believe her reasoning on the face of it, just to be clear.

I wouldn't either. I'd say it's because she's starting to understand that there are consequences to her affair.

Just a short update, since I often revisit this thread to see how things have changed or not changed (as is often the case).
My wife is being a pretty good partner in the shutdown. We do have a stay at home order in place. I've noticed our musical tastes are very different (something that usually takes place in the privacy of our own cars on commutes). She is not really looking for a job at all, and what's more, I overheard her talking with her friend and she said she hadn't set her LinkedIn status to looking for opportunities, so she's effectively just lying to me about looking for a job.
She has been very open in her communication online with OM, and there hasn't been anything personal at all. She said the other day she almost wishes they could have a normal conversation about family, and how his kid is doing. I told her she ruined that opportunity for herself and it's just something she has to live with.
Intimacy level is pretty good, and I don't really have any complaints there.
My work is a little more flexible than hers (we both work from home in the same office most of the time) and I've been doing more than my fair share of taking care of the kids with the increased needs as a result of the shutdown. She's still a good mom and does more of the cleaning and all the laundry (I think I might have said something like this before).
Honestly the shutdown has been nice in confirming she isn't still in the A. I really don't think she wants OM at all anymore. TBD is how she squares not even trying to look for a job after complaining that seeing OM reminds her of her bad decisions and actions.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:47 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:40 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

I know that you are trying to reconcile and trying to find the positives but seeing this and seeing that she is not looking for another job is to me a huge red flag.

She said the other day she almost wishes they could have a normal conversation about family, and how his kid is doing.

I think she does not intend to ever leave that job and I really think she intends to outlast you on that and also down the road normalize her behavior with the OM so she can go back to being "friends". I really hope that I am wrong but this thread has the makings of a repeat in six months where you come back and say you've caught her again with the OM.

beenthereinco,
Obviously it's hard to communicate the weight of things here or there. And I have already self-selected the few facts that bother me out of a week or more of interaction that have mostly been pleasing. Even if the direction of change is overall positive, the situation is obviously not ideal and I'm still looking for improvements.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:47 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:40 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

She's still communicating with him and wants more personal information exchange. Contact keeps it going. She isn't looking for a job or even putting out feelers on LinkIn.

You are standing on a cliff with a strong wind at your back, IMO.

it is fair to you that WW gets a new job.

it is fair to WW that during this isolation at home that she

cannot do a job search or interview for a new job.

however if WW has ended her affair why is there not NC with

the OM. NC means no form of communication allowed.

Hi TIF,

It is good that the two of you can get on in the pressure-cooker atmosphere of being cooped up together so much. It is putting a strain on a lot of relationships.

Even if the direction of change is overall positive, the situation is obviously not ideal and I'm still looking for improvements.

Given the fact that the key sticking points are the same today as they were three months ago - same job, not looking for another, regular contact with her AP - are there any actions that you could take to influence/encourage/motivate your wife to start making the improvements that you would like to see.

Actually, 'improvements' is probably a misnomer for them; 'fundamental requirements' is what they really are.

I am not trying to give you a hard time, but it seems like observation and analysis alone are unlikely to make your wife feel any sense of urgency to make the changes that you need her to make.

And part of that might stem from you giving her the impression that you have no sense of urgency about the changes being made.

Please understand, that is not a criticism of you, or in any way blaming you. I want this to work out for you, and what I am trying to say is that if you remain standing back, watching, and making notes, without letting her know that the current status quo has to change, you may be working against your own best interests.

As things stand, there are no deadlines, no targets, no plan, no strategy (short, medium, or long-term)...

Is there anything at all that would make your wife think that exactly the same situation cannot carry on unchanged for the next decade? If there is not, might that explain why she has made no changes?

Is it possible that your wife feels secure that although you occasionally say sharp words when she tests the water by suggesting she 'almost' wants to normalize her relationship with a man she actively pursued (delete the word 'almost' and the statement becomes more honest), you basically accept the way things are? And that a few barbed comments are a small price to pay for prolonging a situation she seems perfectly comfortable in?

This is not to say that you suddenly have to become a Navy Seal and apply 'shock and awe'. Nor is it a suggestion that you force her to do anything. Rather, it a suggestion that you become more proactive in stating what you need to be changed if you are going to remain in the marriage. What your boundaries are. What is, and is not acceptable to you.

Now, that is not forcing her to do anything other than make a decision about what her priorities are. She can go any way that she wants, but the point is, so can you.

As things stand, she does not have to make any decisions or any changes, so she is not making any. And until that dynamic changes, she is not going to make any changes to her job or her contact with her affair partner.

A good starting point would be to ask her, "How much longer is this going to go on?", to kick off a discussion that makes it clear to her that the current status quo is living on borrowed time. And to make her own the reality that she is deliberately prolonging the situation for a reason, fully aware that it makes you uncomfortable and insecure.

It is time to start calling her out, or she is never going to make the changes that you need her to make.

My wife is being a pretty good partner in the shutdown. We do have a stay at home order in place. I've noticed our musical tastes are very different (something that usually takes place in the privacy of our own cars on commutes). She is not really looking for a job at all, and what's more, I overheard her talking with her friend and she said she hadn't set her LinkedIn status to looking for opportunities, so she's effectively just lying to me about looking for a job.

She has been very open in her communication online with OM, and there hasn't been anything personal at all. She said the other day she almost wishes they could have a normal conversation about family, and how his kid is doing. I told her she ruined that opportunity for herself and it's just something she has to live with.

I think both are bigger redder flags than you may realize, ThisOisOFine. I mean, I understand that it may be tougher now looking for a new position w COVID19. (Or maybe not, everyone has less work to do, which means more time to be sending out and responding to inquiries.) But that she is still in communication w OM--even if it is "strictly business" (I'm not sure I really buy that especially when she was at the office)--and that she isn't even looking for a new job, that is troubling. Not to mention her remark about how she wishes she and OM could still be friends.

What happened to her tears of remorse a month and a half ago in saying how sorry she is that she hurts you and how she wants another job. This all is sad to say a completely different tune

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:09 PM, April 2nd (Thursday)]