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Wert,

You are correct and I did notice that there were gentlemen on the thread who also offered opinions contrary to Tryn's.

I did assume, perhaps erroneously, that as Tryn' automatically assumed that all responses were from women (thus his talking to StillGling about his "man") that it was bothersome to him that the feminine opinions he sought were so stacked against his preconceived notions. I then took that assumption a bit further when I (again perhaps in error, perhaps not) thought that any man who is so enamoured of Laura S and her crackpot advice and so invested in the theory behind this book would be more upset to have women disagree with him than men.

At least that is what my X was like.

I apologize for not giving credit where it was due to the men who contributed to the discussion.

Warpspeed

Here is where this whole discussion is WILDLY off the mark. There have been THOUSANDS of men treated kindly, lovingly,intimately, lovingly, fairly, romantically and been treated to great sex and STILL CHEATED.

I don't think I ever said I would disagree with that.

A given in life is that people are not always loving or loyal.

But to stop loving, stop caring, stop all those things mention in this book will not make for a better relationship.

Dr Laura says on her show..

Pick a good person, then be nice to them... That is what this book is about IMO.

Not one page says anything about "affair proof"

Talking Dr Laura is like talking Politics.

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:07 AM, May 22nd (Tuesday)]

I suppose I should actually answer the original question.

While it wasnt Laura's book, I did read and apply a very similar book and approach. It did not make my marriage better.

Point of fact it made it worse. I degraded myself, I pandered to his ego, I cooked, I cleaned, I flattered, I had sex ... And it made him treat me even more like a doormat.

Again if you want to listen to the hypocritical crackpot and her lousy advice ... Go for it. I wish you and your poor wife luck.

ETA: No one here is advocating not being open, honest, loving, and supportive. Your implication that to not follow Laura's advice is to somehow not do things that are beneficial to a relationship is simply more intellectually disingenuous behaviour.

[This message edited by SouthernGal at 9:06 AM, May 22nd (Tuesday)]

link not working. deleted post

[This message edited by fourever at 9:05 AM, May 22nd (Tuesday)]

And I repectfully disagree with Southern...

I happen to believe Dr Laura is not a crackpot. I think every woman should read this book. It does describes what men need and want.

This does not mean I agree with all Dr Laura's values. I am not offended by her values. For me, I place great value in a woman who does decide to start a career. When a woman does this, she must have other raise the child unless the father steps foward to take on that role. I think most public schools are very good and home school is not for me. But I am not going to hold that agains anyone who does want to homeschool for whatever reason. I also would never disrespect a house husband.

Anyway, I think I beaten the dead horse enough..

Peace.

thus his talking to StillGling about his "man"

That's "StillBling" and fabulously so, thank you.

Tryn, on the very first page of this thread you quoted this excerpt:

Dr. Laura Schlessinger: “When the wife does not focus in on the needs and the feelings, sexually, personally, to make him feel like a man, to make him feel like a success, to make him feel like her hero, he’s very susceptible to the charm of some other woman making him feel what he needs ...

That sounds a lot like affair proofing through steak and sex.

Also, Steak & Sex sounds like a great chain restaurant name. All the junk on the walls could be weird over-sexualized anime chicks and strange sex adjunts like penis pumps, and the food could be served by surly, crabby women with cigarettes dangling from their wizened, painted lips, stuck there by the aged lipstick rendered cement-like, their personal space clouded by those hair spray fumes you're not supposed to have near an open flame, and all they play on the TVs are Eagles Superbowl losses.

I think I need stronger meds.

You disagree with what exactly? You disagree that following that kind advice actually turned my life into a living nightmare starring me as the Donna Reed doormat available at your local Lifeway Christian store?

Or you disagree that someone who could say that Elliot Spitzer's wife is responsible for his whoremongering and write a book the this is a hypocrite?

Again, if you like her and her advice ... God speed and good luck.

But please shelve the "every woman should read it because it tells what men want" because it doesn't (as proven by the participation on men in this thread, though you have conveniently ignored them).

[This message edited by SouthernGal at 9:13 AM, May 22nd (Tuesday)]

Excellent observation, tryn. Talking Dr. Laura is in fact talking politics. All this stuff about wives not having nannies and they should be homeschooling their children, anti-abortion--pure politics. Has nothing to do with infidelity or relationships.

I think from reading your comments here that you are trying really hard to communicate with your wife to make things better between you. I commend that. I also know how hard it can be to get you WS to hear you. You said that you were hoping that your W would read this book and work like you. Do you feel like she is not putting enough effort into R?

As you have probably gleaned from the responses you got, this book might not be the way to go. But I think the general principles you set out about kindness, etc. are something we can all agree on. Talk to your wife about that, especially if you feel you are not getting that from her.

I haven't read all the comments nor have I read the book. I refuse to because the title alone pissed me off.

I was one of those wives that gave it my all for my marriage, stay at home mom, never denied my WH sex(matter of fact chased him for it),kept the house nice, feed him home cooked meals and so on. But I didn't wait on him nor did I act like a brainless idiot. WH still cheated on me. I can point out a few things I might have did wrong such as asking him to talk to me more, to discuss our marriage and our plans for the future and so on. I also asked for more fair treatment in our marriage. You see I had no issue with him going out with friends be it a bar, their houses, or yes even strip clubs. But when I asked if I could go out with friends to do basically the same things He flipped out and would say I wanted to be single or cheat or that married women don't do that. Yet it was a group of married women I wanted to go out with. This was long before his A.

SO you see I can't tolerate a book that says women are the reason their marriages dont work or that their men cheat and so on.

If my husband were to give me that book I would kindly give it back with a set of divorce papers in it. As for my MIL I would throw it at her and tell her maybe she should read it first since her one and only marriage barely lasted 3 yrs and she has the OW at least once that WH and I know about.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2008/03/11/20213/dr-laura-blames-spitzers-wife-for-scandal/?mobile=wp

For those who want to say the Laura S. doesn't place the blame for cheating men on the wives try this quote from the above linked article:

The cheating was his decision to repair what’s damaged and to feed himself where he’s starving. But yes, I hold women accountable for tossing out perfectly good men by not treating them with the love and kindness and respect and attention they need.

Read the bold. He only chose to cheat because he was starving because his little woman didn't properly for or feed him.

[This message edited by SouthernGal at 9:21 AM, May 22nd (Tuesday)]

And guess what? If I get what I need, I treat my woman with what she needs. That’s me.

So I guess where you are concerned...the woman must go first before you step up to the plate? Yep...that basically falls right in line with the good dr.

You do realize you are basically telling us women it is our responsibility to make sure our man is good and happy before he should have to meet our needs too.

[This message edited by coastofsomewhere at 9:25 AM, May 22nd (Tuesday)]

I don't buy it.

You can do EVERYTHING right, be the perfect spouse, and they still might cheat.

That's because THEIR CHEATING IS NOT ABOUT US. It's not. I don't care what justifications they may use (you're always away, you don't keep yourself up, yada yada), their cheating is about THEM.

Aside from the fact that there is no way to be the "Perfect Spouse," even so, it won't keep your spouse from cheating.

The ONLY thing that will keep your spouse from cheating is if they have healthy boundaries. That's it. There are serial killers who have never cheated on their wives.

CHEATING IS NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER ABOUT THE BS - what we did or didn't do, what we might have done, etc.

And, let's face it - who is going to respect a person who caters to their every need, wish, desire and whim? In the end, no one.

SouthernGal

Too me, if you did all those things to meet all your man's needs and he somehow took advantage of you. Then I simply say.. he is a bad man. It had nothing to do with your effort. In fact, you did all the right things and that shows you to be a woman of strength and character. You should be proud of that fact IMO. You cannot control the choices and decision others make. But you can control dumping a bad man and finding one that does follow the Law of Reciprocity. There are good men available.

StillGoing.. We cannot ignore that some good people make mistakes. I tried to point out earlier in this thread my own situation. My needs were not being met and I almost made a mistake. Sure, that would have been my own choice and my own mistake. But there is reason behind it. My wife was not loving me the way I needed and for some odd reason I cannot answer (I guess my answer is that this is human nature in general) I gravitated toward filling that need. It too follows that law of reciprocity. Had my wife been romantic to me, was meeting my needs, made the with effort, given me all those needs missing at that time, I agree with Dr. Laura in my case, I doubt I would have ever come so close to being evil myself. I think I know that feeling.

I am not going to bury my head in the sand and also not look at me. I am looking at what I need to do to make sure I fill all my wife’s needs. I expect the same from my W today and If she cannot appreciate all the blessing I bring, then I will divorce her.

News flash- all advice in the wayward forum will be replaced as of today All WW seeking R will be instructed to simply cook great meals for the BH, flatter them at every turn and f@ck them seven ways to Sunday. Repeat as necessary.

Forget all that "finding your why" and "showing remorse" crap- it is now all about food and fucking!

No need to get too deep with the analysis- men don't want to hear it - just deep throat instead! Then fry up a steak ( but don't touch his grill- it belongs to the MAN).

(for those whose computers do not display it, the above was written in the sarcastic font).

This thread cracks me up.

I read this book a looong time ago- back during the first graduate degree days.

I dug it out and read my comments - not very many.

"Hmm if I wanted a Madonna/Whore then I would have to be Jesus/Caesar. Would that make me a penis dentata?

Go patriarchal apologists- you have your female voice.

Servile domestic does seem to be appealing... for those sporting dominant neanderthal genes.

How can there always be sexual availability without gallons of spare lube? Don't think dry sex is good sex...

Fuck me! Feed Me! Then and only then can I possibly keep my relationship commitment!"

Just some margin notes from a long time ago.

This thread cracks me up.

I am male, by the way.

I'm female and the WS, trynhard. I have read this book. In fact, I own this book, along with The Proper Care and Feeding of Marriage and 10 Stupid Things Women Do to Mess Up Their Lives. I actually agree with a lot of her points and if I had actually been *applying* some of the common-sense principles rather than actively going against them, I can guarantee that I wouldn't have cheated. "My way" obviously didn't work, now did it?

However, as was pointed out by the wise men & women thus far on this thread, a.) the book does oversimplify marriage and men. She does make it sound like men's tiny caveman brains have no deep thoughts beyond their next meal and their next orgasm. Every man I know is a lot more complicated than this and I believe Dr. Laura's attitude to the contrary to be just as marginalizing to the male gender as the women's behavior she criticizes. And b.) she DOES, both in this book and on her radio show, put the onus of a man cheating on his BW, immediately assuming something she did wrong to be the cause. Again, as evident from this thread and pretty much all of SI, this is fallacy and, bluntly, crap. There is ALWAYS an internal reason for a WS to choose to cheat that has nothing to do with the spouse or the marriage. It is not helpful for Dr. Laura (or anyone else) to say otherwise.

My wife was not loving me the way I needed and for some odd reason I cannot answer (I guess my answer is that this is human nature in general) I gravitated toward filling that need. It too follows that law of reciprocity. Had my wife been romantic to me, was meeting my needs, made the with effort, given me all those needs missing at that time, I agree with Dr. Laura in my case, I doubt I would have ever come so close to being evil myself. I think I know that feeling.

I don't agree with this at all Tryn. IMO this is an attempt at taking a shortcut past accountability.

I understand that certain behaviors have an influence on us, but the underlying theme of what you and Dr. Laura are promoting is acting in a way that controls other people's behavior. I think that's just plain wrong.

"Fuck your husband well enough, and cook him good meals and he won't cheat" is the mantra correct?

Fucking your spouse well is a good practice and enjoyable. Cooking good meals falls into the same category. Cheating on your spouse has nothing to do with either one of those IMO.

We see it played across these boards everyday. BH's and BW's who are acting in loving ways and trying their best to be good partners they can be, only to have their lives shattered by infidelity despite their best efforts.

Are there M's that probably wouldn't have suffered from an A if there were more loving behaviors? Yes, I think mine is one of those, but what about all of the folks on here who thought they had good M's?

You wonder if human nature is the thing that drove you to almost stray. I think what I and many others on here believe is that a lack of self-worth and personal boundaries are what did it. Chalking it up to "human nature" is the easy way out IMO. The shortcut.

This whole paradigm of thought completely ignores the concepts of honesty, integrity, and values. "My spouse isn't meeting my needs so it's human nature to seek meeting those needs somewhere else".

It's a blame game where the finger never points at the one who should be held responsible for their actions.

Here's the deal...it is no one's responsibility to make sure you don't cheat but YOU.

I was the kind of wife Dr Laura says women should be. He used to come home to hot meals, cold cocktails, and BJs for no reason other than I felt like doing it.

My XH not only still cheated, but cheated with a woman who was independent and aloof and did not fawn all over him. Go fucking figure.

If your spouse is not meeting your needs, chances are you are not meeting theirs either. Its a vicious downward spiral... a power struggle of sorts develops... she is not meeting my needs so I will be damned if I will meet hers... BTDT

Those are issues in the M and cannot be resolved by bringing in an AP!

[This message edited by Lucky2HaveMe at 11:51 AM, May 22nd (Tuesday)]