SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Have to insert here to disagree with Rambler re: the book. That book is NOT a BS's playbook at all. Just as the title indicates it is a guide for a WS to help a BS truly heal. That's all it is. R or D, it is a playbook for steps a WS should take from a position of honesty.

Im so sorry your here, looks like your on the right track for you to heal.

I don't mean to add to the strain your already feeling, but OBS deserves to know she is living with a cheater. For all you know given he just came on to your wife in the office, she might not be the only one and is right now putting the OBS health at risk.

Have you gotten around to being tested? Protect your health, as you never know and its although I know fully well the awful feeling of having to be tested due to shit like this brought upon you undeservedly, its for your own health.

If overall you are doing the right thing, that only you can really answer, but for me it seems you are on the right track for you.

Upsidedown - I feel your pain, man. I see your confusion and it is totally understandable. You are getting some good advice so I thought I would just add that all of the advice that you get on this board comes with the guidance: "Take what you need and leave the rest." Although there are universal components to our experience, no one who posts here is just like you. Also, while there are some universal or near universal truths (don't rugsweep, don't live in infidelity, expose to OBS, etc.) other things are much less universal.

There was a recent post which offered the below predictions. I've given my thoughts on each to show you that we all have our own stories and experiences.

You will never see her the same.

- Yeah, I guess, but I see her differently in many ways, both positive and negative. Obviously I'm now aware she possesses an ability to deceive that I didn't about. On the other hand, before the affair I considered her pretty weak willed. I put some rather hard conditions on R and she not only met them, she exceeded them. The effort that she put into R surprised me and she has found strength she didn't know she had. In terms of looking at her with love, I still do. If she hadn't done the work, I wouldn't. Be she lives her amends every day.

You will never trust her the same.

- This one is true for sure. And it sucks. She obviously doesn't go out to bars or dance clubs anymore but she has gone out to dinner with a girlfriend a few times. When she does I can get nervous, but a lot of this is just PTSD-type feelings. Rationally, I don't think she is doing anything. She goes above and beyond in her transparency at these times to give me what I need. In the beginning it was GPS tracking, texting photos from the place, etc.

You will always wonder if there was more.

- Nah. Trust your gut. If you've (metaphorically) beaten the crap out of your WS to get the truth and done whatever it takes to ensure that is the full truth and she has shown you that she is 100% committed to the truth in words and deeds, I think you can be confident you've got it all. I am.

You will always compare your self to OM. and You will always wonder if you are enough.

This one has two answers. The first is rational: Fuck no I don't compare myself! My W's OM was a fat 22 year little wet behind the ears turd. I find myself baffled by my wife's interest in him but I sure don't compare myself to him. I also don't worry that I'm enough. I don't know if I would feel differently if OM was more compelling a choice.

Now the not so rational side: Yes, I have feelings like this sometimes. But if I'm honest, I had these feelings prior to the A. My self esteem has never been great. My W's A sure as fuck didn't help with that, but it did spur me to get serious about IC and I'm working on these negative thoughts in a way I hadn't before.

You will always wonder if she is remembering good moments with him when she is quiet.

I doubt it. She was in the affair because he fed her ego kibbles. But he wasn't even good at that! She always wanted more from him. Can you imagine? A 40 year old woman desperate for attention from a 22 year old. She absolutely cringes at the memory of it. But let's imagine for the sake of argument that there a small handful of times that she remembers fondly. When asked, so do you miss it, do you want to go back, do you miss him? Her answer would be FUCK NO!! Both of these things can be true. I can say the same thing about exes in my past. I know it is not the same, but it is not that far off when you consider just this point.

You will always wonder while having sex if she thinks of him.

Its weird but I've never thought this. I say weird because I thought I would. But I haven't. I HAVE triggered during sex thinking about the affair. I'm 9 months out and I just did it last night. That sucked. I don't know if my story is atypical, but the improvement in our sex life post A has been so extreme that triggering a handful of times doesn't seem like a huge deal. Nowadays I only trigger like that when I'm drunk (which I was last night).

Upsidedown1,

IMO you should go on with D, if she really loves you she will be willing to date you after D, of course if you want it too and if she gives you what you need about her Affair.

I wonder why she is now willing to give up her job and being OK with you informing OMW…I believe there is much more she is not telling you, things like:

She was dumped by OM when she told him that you will D her. This kind of POS runs away when things get serious. This POS just wanted to have fun on the side, and in order to get it he tried, and IMO succeed, to get you WW to fall for him. This does not justify any of your wife actions during her affair, but explains why she was protecting him, even trying to keep in touch with him by hiding where he really works, until OMPOS dumped her.

Sorry but I believe you are her plan B, she was trying to get serious with OM while playing nice wife with you, that’s why she protected him and hidden that he works at the same place. Her change of heart regarding him means she was/is still in contact with him. Sorry but IMO they just went underground after DDay until she dumped her.

Look, if you want to give her another chance, first of all you need you WW to:

Give you a detailed time line of her affair, also she need to own it. Explain to her that minimizing or hiding is also lying and any new discovery will be a new DDay. Also tell her that the time line will be verified by a poly test.

As she is a proven liar she needs to show by her action as her word means nothing at this moment.

Of course she needs to change her work ASAP, be accountability of her time and as this happened with a CW, and never be alone with male coworkers.

Get to know what happened, why she allowed herself to have an affair.

Of course there is much more but, as you can see, most of the requirements will take years to prove she is 100% into save your marriage, that’s why I believe that you are doing the right thing by D and giving her the chance to date after that.

I believe you already know it but I am saying this again:

This is not your fault!; and

You own her nothing 8if you decide to R you can walk away in a week, moth or a year. The chance to R is a gift given every day, a chance; it is not a promise and has not guaranties.

Last thing, How are you doing, I mean are you sleeping enough?, are you eating enough? You need to take care of yourself.

Good luck

Chifrudo

You are absolutely right, everybody is different and will experience Infidelity is a different way,

I was just trying to illustrate what may happen based on my own experience.

Upsidedown1,

IMO our post, at least mines, are not a step by step guide, they meant to you to make you own POW. There a lot of similarities in the majority of the affairs (cheaters 101), and exist specific guide lines to deal with them (180, serve the WW, ask for poly, etc) but the rest is on you.

Good luck

when I reviewed the phone records on Thurs, & saw the calls (only on the 2 nights I was out of town, & the one night she said she was working late) I immidiately knew they'd slept together on those dates.

I think I mentioned earlier, but in a very heated argument on Sat (angriest id ever seen her/REALLY lost her cool), she confessed 2 things; 1- he didn't work at side job worked at her main job. 2- yes they'd fucked, & not just once but 3x. (I could already tell this from the phone records indicating they were together on those 3 dates) She told me they did it at one of his friends' houses.

20 mins later when she'd regained her conpusure & I had left back to guest room, she came in and tried to recant both confessions. Said she only said those things bc she was angry, & didn't know why she'd said them.

Talked all day Sun,she did come around and confess that yes the confession of where he works is true, but still denied sleeping with him ( I knew this was a lie, due to the phone records AND her previous confession of it).

This AM, I brought it up, told her I'm not an idiot & deserve the truth. She finally owned up to it. Said they met up those 3x to have sex at a nearby house, but then 5 mins later, says the truth is the 1st 2 times he couldn't get hard, so they weren't able to (but admits they did other things, like him performing oral etc) but that on the 3rd time they did in fact have sex - not sure if she was trying to 'minimize' there or if she was trying to be truthful.

This morning I was going through her pictures again prior to the above conversation, (she had agreed to let her phone charge on my side of the bed at night now) went back to the timeline of the affair (Oct-Dec. I caught them right after New Years), but around Oct I saw a shift in the pics, all these e-cards and funny meme's of sexual innuendo's, (none of which were shared with me obviously), & 1 not so dirty one, just from Pinterest about "someday someone will light a fire in your heart, & sadly it won't be the person you spend forever with" or something. These were honestly more hurtful then finding out she'd slept with someone else... Is that crazy?

& an update of current situation, the previous 2-3 days I had made a hard line stance that we were getting D & that she had to go. As someone else stated, I do think that helped wake her up a bit.

Now, as you guys have pointed out, I'm not sure I want to rush to any decisions while stil being on the damn emotional rollercoaster. So I told her that last night, that even though we are on the road to D, that I want to pump the breaks a little bit. That we are still headed in that direction, but don't have to crash into it right away. I told her that doesn't mean we are working it out, it just means I need more time to figure out what's what. So that was last night.

And then this morning was all my previous post. I have no idea what to do anymore. Back when I thought my wife would NEVER cheat on me, I just assumed I'd never tolerate an affair. Now that I'm actually in the middle of it, it's not as clear.

1 min I'm thinking, get D, allow her to stay friends as she has requested, and who knows, I could date her again if I ever wanted, if not, I could do w/e I wanted.

Next min, I'm wondering if since she is being more truthful (even if not 100% yet, & I know the only way to do it is 100% but she is at least improving i feel), but wondering that IF she can be truthful, & IF she follows up on everything she is saying (new job, not going anywhere at work where they could run into each other in the meantime, 0 contact, psychiatric help, the whole 9 yards) then maybe I give R a shot?

I don't know. I told her I don't know what's what right now and that I can't make these life altering decisions at the moment.

3rd post this AM, but wanted to say thnx again to all posters, even if I haven't answered or acknowledged every q put out there, I HAVE read every reply

Very gently - cheaters lie and minimise. The OM did not have ED, and I think you know this. She's still being selfish and trying to cover her ass. Be very careful.

Double post

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 7:13 AM, January 18th (Monday)]

Just a reflection, if I am going to have sex with my lover and I suffer from HD, I will take Viagra or whatever to get the job done.

Other thing, if I meet my lover because his Husband is out of town, of course I will do it in her house, and I will spend big part of the night, mean a lot of sex an stuff not a hurry up intercourse.

She is still lying; you can R with someone that is still lying.

Other thing, this is the first time you caught her but how do you know is her first affair?

Also, they shared a deep emotional connection; at least your WW did, and she has not come clean about it.

IMO you need to take your time, but meanwhile you need to get perspective, that means:

She needs to move out.

You need to do 180, not to wake her but you to detach. You need to be willing to lose your marriage to fix it, as you have experienced. You will also get perspective and a good look on how would it be after D.

She needs to come clean 100% about the affair and contact after DDAy. Unless she achieves this there is nothing to disuse. She really needs to take a poly test. And you really need to tale STD test.

Expose to OM wife, at this point besides doing the right thing and you will achieve:

Your WW to see the POS she fell for. Big wake up to come for her.

Destroying the Affair for good.

But IMO you won’t get more info as I believe you’re WW and OM speaks on daily basis and she has warned him about what she has confessed.

Take your time but use it to take care of yourself and get perspective. Also notice that being in limbo for a long time will destroy you.

Get info of how much time a D will take, and give that time to your WW to convince you that she worth the suffer and effort R takes (one of the biggest challenges you will ever face).

BTW, you need to be very sincere to her, if you get to R I strongly recommend that kids are out of question for at least 5 years, and that R is not a promise and has no guaranties.

Keep reading, keep learning, keep venting and keep asking questions.

You don't need to make any final decisions on the relationship right now. Think of it as a triage situation in medicine -> you have to prioritize. At this point, the most crucial thing is to do some basic recovery from this trauma. To this end, I think it's essential you do as much IC as possible ASAP, and to take care of your physical health as well (exercise, proper eating,...).

I think it would be better for your healing to get some space away from your wife by her staying away. A few weeks or months of you having space will give you lots of space (physical, mental, thinking,...) to recover and gain a clearer perspective on things. It will also tell you a lot about her as you'll be able to observe how she handles independent life (will she work on herself? will she stay away from other men or not?...). But I also think it might turn out ok if you two stay in the same house while you try to figure things out. Remember, you can always change your mind! So if you see that staying in the same place doesn't work, ask her to move out. And vice versa, you can allow her to move back in.

Take your time. Make sure you work on yourself. Make sure you don't make any really bad long-term decisions (I've mentioned that before) while you heal. Best wishes!

You know enough about the truth, whether there was ED or not, whether she had sex in your home or not, this all can be handled on a polygraph when the time comes.

Stop talking to her about what you plan. Continue with divorce, your can put the brakes on later. Let her ACTUALLY do something before you give her any credit. AT A MINIMUM, she would have to be out of that job before you could go forward with divorce. Talk is cheap, actions are needed.

Let her know a polygraph is coming IF there will be a reconciliation.

Ask her to write down a timeline, starting with the first time she stepped over the line in her head, continue with first flirt, first kiss, first sex, where and when the sex occurred, and you can use this as basis of the polygraph.

ED could be true. Just as easily could be false. Who cares? She would have screwed him and did other sexual stuff. This is all minutiae really. You have 90% of the truth.

The emotional stuff where she had "fire in heart forever" is worse than the sex, but given her situation, that is not that meaningful. She was in the "teenage immature infatuation" point at that time, she could not have really thought it was soulmate stuff, hurtful as it is to read. I think if she had been ongoing the affair for 3 years rather than 3 months, the emotional connection would be something to be more concerned with. Her being OK with telling other man's wife is key. Now do it.

Don't backpedal yet.

Consider putting a voice-activated recorder in her car when she goes to work for the next week.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 7:32 AM, January 18th (Monday)]

I agree that kids would need to be off the table for a long time if we did R. And by long time, yes, years. Makes my decision of D or not even harder, bc at 32.5, we wouldn't really have 5 yrs, to rebuild the M, that window would likely be closing, but I totally agree on the importance of not bringing kids into this.

At this point, I'm back to feeling like she needs move out, and we can proceed with D. As people have stated, if something crazy were to happen we could always pause it.

Maybe we'd stay in touch, maybe we wouldn't. I think at this point, that staying around as a 'friend' is naive.

And yes, I think the ED story this morning, (even though she admitted to making out / oral on the first 2x,) was just trying to lie to minimize it.

& as far as ME, I've lost a lot of weight. Although my appetite is a little stronger than it was right at dday. I don't sleep much either, but again, better than dday - when I would be wide awake all night long

Have you asked her to go to her doctor and get tested for STDs?

She is leaving the job anyway, she can go and tell the management that she wants put in a different area to stay away from him because she had an affair with him. Also that she doesn't want any more advances from him.

These are ACTIONS that sacrifice to her for you. I call it putting "skin in the game." Just saying "I won't talk to him" is very easy, going to someone in authority at the job and putting it into place is a consequence that shows she means it.

I've read the "he couldn't get hard" story from a number of posts on SI. It seems to be the female cheater's version of 'I smoked but didn't inhale.' So I'm skeptical of that one. Do you know the friend whose house was used for their liasons? That friend can verify her story. If it's true, then that friend is not your friend, and your ww needs to cut contact with this person if you plan to R.

Eh, I'm not sure what she told you they did was minimizing. I mean, she said she was trying to have sex with him, but he couldn't do it, so he performed orally on her. That doesn't make her look any better than if they actually had intercourse. She admitted she was ready and willing.

Believe it or not, my friend, you are doing remarkably well. No one wades through this stuff without confusion and pain. Even with that pain and confusion, you have a pretty good handle on it, so don't feel you have to rush to make any major decisions. Now that you have taken control of the situation, time is no longer working against you. Just don't rug sweep or backslide in your resolve, and make the big decisions when you are ready.

Re; the ED, yeah she did admit to him going down on her, also didn't deny that the 3rd time they got together, that he actually was able to so they DID have sex. It wasn't like she was trying to say he could NEVER get hard so zero sex took place.

And the house, this was not MY friends place, this was OM's friends place. So yea obviously not my friend, I don't even know the person or where it is.

I don't know, having a REALLY hard time today, being off for the holiday and home alone. I'm still in bed @10:30 here... And don't see the point in getting up to do anything...

Realize I DO need to see a professional ASAP for IC

what do I need to look up? A 'grief' counselor? Do I need a 'therapist'? A psychiatrist? An NP?

Stay strong OP. Veering from one emotion to another is completely normal. In my eyes you are actually doing really well considering that D-Day was not that long ago. It takes the average BS a long time to be able to get to the point where you are now where you are dealing with the reality of your situation as it is, not how you wish it to be. That takes courage. You refused to hide your head in the sand. You stood up for yourself and demonstrated that you were no doormat to meekly accept the crumbs she threw your way. Good on you for that. Good luck.