SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

People seem to be assuming that you are clean of the STD your gf contracted..I didn't read the entire thread, I apologize..

If I were you I would consider myself exposed to the STD if you have any intimate/close contact with her..Monitor this exposure every few months for the next year or so until you are sure you are clean... Or get appropriate treatment if you are positive for the disease..Herpes is transmitted via skin to skin contact..You don't necessarily have to have had intercourse to get this disease..Kissing can be sufficient to expose you..

Emotionally, I agree with the advice the other posters before me gave you...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 7:08 AM, April 25th (Monday)]

I know you want someone to say "Go ahead and marry her. It will all work out fine." You would be approximately the 40,000th betrayed partner on this site to BEG for that. We want it all to go away. They said they were sorry. It HAS to be okay, right?

But something in you decided to post here. To hear the words of fellow betrayed. To find something...

Well, that something is truth. It is really tough to hear at first, but eventually, it wins out. Even when you absolutely DON'T want it.

So, my advise to you is to get healthy. Get some perspective away from her. Detachment helps YOU figure out what you need; not what some therapist wants, not what she wants, not what your confused soul wants, but what you really need.

Then you will be okay.

[This message edited by reallyscrewedup7 at 8:04 AM, April 25th (Monday)]

There are several things that people are considering when they tell you to run. Your age (so young) past problems (already in couples counseling), her timing (right before you were preparing to propose), the extent of contact with him (no ONS), No kids, Not Married. That this was during the nonstressful "honeymoon" period of you're relationship.

You know how many marriages end in divorce and these are ones that start out without the infidelity and lies that yours will.

YOU seem fairly certain that she would never cheat again. Most of SI see the red flags above and feel differently but we are talking about you. Even if you feel 100% sure she will be faithful for the next 50 years of your life...you are going to be reminded of her infidelity every time she has a herpes outbreak. When you catch it that's another set of reminders of her cheating. You have said you have commitment issues... this has just set those issues way back...she says she will wait until you are ready again... she didn't do too well waiting before, plan for this to be a back-forth argument between you two.

I know that starting over sounds very difficult but I strongly believe making this work will be even more difficult with a less likely hood of working out in the long run.

I would like to change my answer from the other day, when I said continue to date and see where you go. I must have skimmed over the herpes part.

If you stay with her, you are headed for (more) heartbreak. And herpes, which will severely limit your dating pool, once you and she break up. I am sorry to be blunt.

For those that have been asking about it: yes, I did get tested. I got the blood tests the day after she found out. Unfortunately, my understanding is that there are two tests: one of them works quickly, but is not very accurate, and the other one (more accurate) can take a few months after infection before it works. So I probably won't know unless I get tested a few months from now, or of course if I have an outbreak.

She has continued to say all the right things, expressing her sorrow and remorse in the most sincere way I can imagine. She was really sweet to me last night and this morning. It was a reminder of all the best parts of our relationship. I hear you all, but she's not making it easy to give up on her. It was a big deal for me to say I was ready to propose. It was a long time before I said "yes I'm absolutely sure". My head is still spinning.

Brother, you are not giving up on her. You are being your own best advocate. Pretend you are giving advice to your own son. Would you knowingly addvocate him exposing himself to a lifelong incurable infection?

You did not choose any of this my friend. I am sorry for the pain you are in and I do understand. She made these choices. She made them after she knew you were going to propose. She knew how hard that decision was for you. She cheated anyway.

I ask again, what would you advise your own son to do?

I am sorrier for your pain than I can express.

Your subject line says, "Don't know if I should stay." The good news is that you don't have to decide today, or tomorrow, or next month. You don't have to decide next year, even.

What you DO have to understand, however, is that recovery from infidelity is a very long-term proposition. No one is exaggerating when they say it takes years. YEARS. It's not unusual for one or the other partner to decide, somewhere along that years'-long path, to end the relationship. It's is not just the BS who has this choice, either--I think that is something important for you to keep in mind. You're only half the equation here, and she's not all in.

You say she is remorseful. At this point, I think she is not. I know this sounds like hair-splitting, but there is a real difference between regret and remorse. She is regretful.

That may well change. It's not at all unusual for a WS to take a while to reach real remorse.

You can take time, if you'd like, to evaluate the situation and observe how it unfolds. What actions does your WGF take to become a safe partner? What things does she do, without prompting, to learn more about her poor boundaries and how to shore them up? What is she doing to educate herself about the process of rebuilding?

I'd ditch the couples counselor you've been seeing. First, s/he sounds terrible. Like, TERRIBLE. But more importantly, this is an IC issue; your WGF needs to explore, in independent counseling, her issues. She needs to gather coping tools, because the ones she has are poor. She needs to learn about herself and what she wants---and how to express that in ways that do not destroy other people and relationships.

You need IC, too. I don't like the term codependent because it seems blame shifty to me, but you seem to be bending over backwards to make things easier for someone who needs to be doing some very hard work. And YOU have hard work, too. As much as every BS would love it to be different, the fact of the matter is that our healing is 100% our own. We have to do it whether the relationship continues or ends---and no one can do it for us.

That's what IC for you is about.

Couples counseling is something you can explore down the road, if you remain a couple. I have to join the others in expressing concern that you were already in counseling. While I think it is, on one hand, often a sign of maturity to work to identify issues rather than treat relationships as disposable, this is what is supposed to be your honeymoon period---and difficulties this early on requiring professional intervention seem to be a pretty strong indicator that you just aren't with the right person.

Have you considered that? That you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole when, in fact, there is a nice round peg for you?

It just concerns me that you seem to be working hard at making THIS relationship work when it is so fundamentally flawed.

Add in the STD-complicated infidelity (which was NOT because she was "far away" and "doing things out of character," but rather a clear indicator of who she is, and the state of her character), and it's very, very worrisome.

Hold off on proposing. Return the ring. Don't hang on to it in case you decide to propose----that will make it too easy to impulsively do so. Besides, this ring is, well…tainted.

If you truly believe this is the woman for you--that you are meant to have a lifetime together, then you can start that lifetime together unmarried and doing the VERY hard work to reconcile. You will see whether she has it in her. It will become apparent whether YOU do, too.

There is no shame in either decision. But make it for the RIGHT reasons. What is it that convinces you that THIS woman is the one with whom you are intended to spend your life? To the outsider, it's very puzzling, as your short relationship has already been so rife with discord.

I'd be curious to know your relationship history, as well as that of your parents. Because something is pushing you to salvage a relationship that most would choose to view as a sad life lesson, terminate and mourn, then use what was learned in the continued pursuit for a healthy relationship.

(I wish your therapist had been one interested in helping you make the assessment of your relationship, and whether it is meant to continue. Instead, you got an excuse-making enabler who doesn't seem to care about YOUR emotional well-being at all. If nothing else, THAT relationship must end. Neither of you should use that therapist for IC, and when it's time for MC, another should be chosen.)

Again, I'm very sorry for your pain. While you don't have to decide immediately, you DO have to take measures to prevent the decision from being made FOR you. Not only do you have to be very cautious vis-a-vis the herpes, but also as relates to pregnancy. You would not be the first man whose partner decided to cement a relationship with a baby--so it's critical YOU ensure this does not occur.

[This message edited by solus sto at 12:56 PM, April 25th (Monday)]

Of course it was a big deal for you. It was a big deal for me too! It was a question I planned on asking only once in my life.

You took such a long time to know you were absolutely sure about marrying this woman. You now have new information which should, at the very least, make you reconsider EVERYTHING (even your own judgment), now with the knowledge of her ability to behave in such callous, immoral, traitorous ways. However much time and energy you spent making this decision before, you owe it to yourself to do twice the consideration now.

They do and say some really wonderful things. But what is needed is fixing of what is broken inside of them. There is no way your paramour is someone who is safe to take on as a spouse. Maybe she can be in the future with a lot of hard work. But you will HATE yourself if you reward her cheating with a proposal. I'm telling you this from personal experience. You can choose to rugsweep this, but you will regret it.

This makes me think about Hysterical Bonding, where there can be a desire to put a claim on what you want to be yours. Physical intimacy may be something you want to avoid right now, so a substitute is the engagement ring.

Are you worried that you will "lose her" if you don't propose? Do you think her efforts and niceties would stop if you told her "I know that I had brought up proposing, but it's clear that there are some serious problems within you that need to be addressed in order for you to possibly be a safe partner, and I need to see you focusing on that right now."

I've been lurking on this site for over a year now. Every now and then I feel compelled to say something and I will attempt to make an account and never activate it. I've been reading this thread since you first posted, haven't kept up with the updates like I've wanted, but I activated my account today because I want to help in the only way I can: Please listen to all of these wise posters. Get out of that relationship now. I've been with my husband for half my life now...I too can still walk away and haven't chosen to. He's remorseful, yadda yadda, but once they've cheated, they are always capable of doing it again. It breaks you. Don't live with this hurt, the lack of trust. My husband showed little signs of selfishness and white lies all along. I would tell my younger self this: Go find someone amazing and worthy of you!

Toopol, how do you know she hasn't cheated in the past?

There is a bit of hysterical bonding, but we're not having sex, and I returned the ring right away. I'm not going to propose right now, don't worry. Again, I'm openly wrestling with my own heart here, but I'm not as blind or stupid as I'm sure I sound.

I'm not considering proposing in the near future. I am, however, considering leaving the relationship. I don't want to drag it out. I want to start healing, and I don't know if I can do that unless I've decided either to stay (and give reconciliation a chance) or to leave.

I really want to talk to my parents about it. They can tell something's wrong and they always have my back. And I have some old friends (who know both of us) that I want to tell. But once that can of worms has been opened, it can't ever be closed again. They'd never see her in the same light again, and so telling them seems almost equivalent to deciding to break up.

My girlfriend was always a "good girl" in many ways. Never a party animal, didn't have one-night stands, no drugs or anything in her past. This affair was so, so contrary to her previous behavior, and she seems to be wrestling with this self-imposed blow to her self-image. I honestly don't think she ever cheated before. It was so out of the question. And when it did happen, she told me. I don't think she knew about the herpes at the time. You can spin stories of how she's been a liar and manipulator since the beginning, but that honestly doesn't ring true to me, and despite my obvious poor judgement, you have to trust me on that. She seems like someone who never thought she would ever do this, and then she did, and now we're both crushed by the contradiction. I'm sure her relative lack of experience with guys made this more possible, but neither of us is accepting that as an excuse.

It's just so fucking weird to be with her now. She's back, you know? There was something "off" about her behavior in between the start of the affair and her confession, but then she came back, and she's just like the girl I fell in love with. It's eerie. I told her last night it's like I'm dating a shapeshifter. And I know that's a bad thing in itself (who wants to marry that?) but here she is, back to normal, telling me that she'll wait for me as long as I need, that she'll do anything to make it to me, that she's as baffled about it as I am, that she only wants me, and that she just hopes I'll hold on through this hard time until our relationship can start to heal. It's a good pitch.

For all the years of our relationship, she was the steady one. We never worried about either of us straying, even when we were apart for long periods of time. We each had our own problems, of course. My parents always seemed like they had this super easy, almost idyllic marriage, with almost no fights or issues between them. When I had minor fights or problems with my girlfriend, I didn't know how to handle them, and they spooked me past the point of reason. I almost broke up with her over that, but she reminded me of the good parts of our relationship and our promises to work through our problems together. That's why we went to therapy to start with. Eventually, I became convinced that working through minor problems in a relationship was normal, that our relationship was a good one, and that I was finally ready to propose. She was always the one who was patient, committed to our relationship, etc. She was ready for marriage after a year or so, but she waited for me for years without putting any pressure on me at all. She always seemed like she just wanted to be with me forever. And then this.

There are so many reasons to love her and fight for this relationship. But on the other side is the single, enormous, awful fact of this affair. It's so hard to get my head around.

Do you mind sharing your relationship history---before WGF, and in the current relationship? I know you were in MC before the infidelity---what took you there? What made it a relationship to be saved, rather than a relationship that just wasn't the right one for you? How far into your relationship did you start experiencing the issues that took you to MC? What were the goals of the therapy, before the infidelity was uncovered?

I know these sound terribly intrusive, and I apologize---you don't need to answer them here, if it's uncomfortable for you. But I'd encourage you to think about the answers to them, and whether, perhaps, you've invested a great deal in a relationship that was meant to be temporary.

I'm not saying this is the case--again, it's YOUR relationship, and only you can assess that. But you are young and, depending on experience, may not know it's okay to walk away from premarital relationships. (I know I never mastered this---and for every premarital red flag I saw, I got a thousand marital injuries….I'd hate for that to happen to you, which is why I ask these questions. I'm not projecting; I am simply suggesting that you examine the situation in a slightly different light. WHY is it worth saving? What is so great about her, about you together?)

Until you have iron-clad answers, and know where the relationship is heading, do NOT engage in behaviors that may tie her to you for the rest of your life. If she's in a desperate, "I'll do anything" state, don't rule out manipulative pregnancy.

I'm really sorry you're here, Toopol.

I'm really taking a deep breath in responding. Something about your position resonates with me and I've been about to post quite a few times, but I hesitate to put myself out there on an online forum more than I already have. (Read my recent posts - comments were from a caring place but not what I expected.)

First, how often does she travel for work? Are you separated often? Don't discount how difficult work travel is for both partners, but particularly the one staying home, especially when one has cheated already. Will you be able to trust her in the future? I just assumed, from your first pages, that she slept with a coworker. That, I understand. It's not right, by any means, but when you travel and work closely together, obviously you develop a camaraderie and you have to especially maintain strict boundaries to avoid anything untoward happening. The fact that it was a front desk guy is disturbing to me. Perhaps I need the emotional side more than most, but there was no age at which I was hopping into bed with someone I literally just met. When my WH left me, I went on a girls' trip. A hot, younger guy called my room and knocked on my door. He said he never did this, he could lose his job, but there was just something about me. Yeah, right. Thanks for the ego kibbles, but I'm sure you do this all the time. I pleasantly and in a friendly manner dismissed him and that was that.

Second, I was in a prior very long-term relationship with someone with herpes. It is possible not to end up with it. I don't have it. But, it is difficult and worrisome. He and I were VERY careful. But it was annoying to always have to worry about it. Do you want that worry? He was REALLY good about protecting me from it and I was paranoid. It wasn't that fun, although of course I loved him.

Third, obviously I don't know you in real life, but I'm sure you can find someone else. There are others out there. I found great people in my late 30s when my WH left me and we were headed for D. I thought nobody would want me as I was "old" and had 2 very young kids. Guess what. I had no problems whatsoever. People came out of the woodwork. You will be fine without her. I obviously don't know your relationship but let me say this:

The man that had the herps in my prior relationship? He would NEVER have cheated on me. He was a guy's guy through and through and he changed politically to a crazy extent and that's why we didn't work out. I just didn't want to hear it all the time. He was obsessed. That said, he didn't even speak to other women. There was, literally, no threat.

My WH? It took me quite a while to marry him because he flirted with others constantly and I knew he had cheated before. Guess what, I was stupid and he cheated on me as well after we had tiny kids. We have other problems that are apparently lasting, as well. I should have listened to my gut.

I'm not bitter whatsoever. I am a complete optimist. My WH promises that nothing bad will happen ever again. Well, that's great, but don't be me. Find someone that you don't have to worry about whatsoever...in any fashion.

Being engaged should be the most exciting time of your life. You should be so happy, planning your wedding, planning your future, etc. Honestly, you shouldn't have to be worrying about cheating, counseling, all these things.

Take some time and really sort out things. I'm not a fan of snap decisions. But, from my perspective on an online forum knowing neither of you, I would perhaps say back away. There are people out there that will love you for you and not travel and cheat after no real time at all.

Best of luck. And, again, I'm really sorry you're going through this. No fun whatsoever. Best wishes to you.

not to throw in more questions but...

since she caught an std, I guess that means she didn't use protection? does this mean she could have gotten pregnant?

i don't like to spend too much time on hypotheticals but, just for the sake of argument, what if she did get pregnant? have you asked her what she would have done?

if it were me, I'd ask those questions.

eta - sorry if this was already covered and I missed it.

[This message edited by mike7 at 8:16 PM, April 25th (Monday)]

The fact that it was a front desk guy is disturbing to me. Perhaps I need the emotional side more than most, but there was no age at which I was hopping into bed with someone I literally just met.

I don't think you understand what happened.

She didn't just meet him before she had sex. She had known him for 3 weeks already, and he told her that she was the only one for him, that he wanted to marry her as soon as possible, and that even if she stayed with topol, the OM would wait for her forever and he was ardent and absolutely certain. He also told her that he was a virgin, and she was the first person he had ever had sex with. He preyed on her.

So it wasn't just like she just hopped into bed on day one. It took about 3 weeks. And she swears that she's learned a lesson.

Also, their therapist emphasizes that because it happened so far away and in such an unusual context, people do things they would never normally do. (If it happened here, their therapist says, then yeah, it would be a different story.) So as long as she stays close to home, she should be good from now on. Either that, or only go away to hotels with female front desk people.

Topol, how long did it take you to have sex with your girlfriend when you first met her?

Topol, I'm sorry, but do you see how this sounds like? Have you read back some of this stuff to yourself?

Topol, please talk to your parents and tell them everything. You need someone with experience who loves you and has your back. They should have the opportunity to talk some sense into you, not everyone here who just doesn't understand about this young woman.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 7:53 PM, April 25th (Monday)]

Wk, no offense, but I totally read for comprehension. I get it. My comments still stand.

3 weeks is nothing.

I'm not saying I'm Mother Theresa but I was gone on my girls' trip for a long time. This happened at the end. Still wasn't buying what that cute guy was selling.

Shrug.

BS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:23 PM, May 4th (Wednesday)]

Very Uncertain, I was trying to make a point to the original poster. I agree with you. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. Yes, 3 weeks is nothing, that was the point I was trying to make, it might as well have been one day.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 8:15 PM, April 25th (Monday)]

My girlfriend was always a "good girl" in many ways. Never a party animal, didn't have one-night stands, no drugs or anything in her past. This affair was so, so contrary to her previous behavior, and she seems to be wrestling with this self-imposed blow to her self-image.

I could have written the same thing about my wife. It was so out of character from who I knew her to be. Despite this, her first affair was not her last. She was fundamentally broken inside despite all the other great things about her and all the ways she assured me after each affair that she was sorry and it wouldn't happen again.

This is a key point that many are trying to make. Your GF has showed you that she is deeply broken. You need to look past her words and any "love bombing" she is doing right now. These are only signs of regret, but they can so easily look like more than that. If you are giving this time, watch her actions carefully and make sure they include an extensive, ongoing effort on understanding how she is broken, why she is that way and how she will implement change.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 8:18 PM, April 25th (Monday)]

Lol, wk, I reread and decided you were being nicely sarcastic.

Oh well. I guess we're on the same page.

Toopol, everybody is trying to be helpful but obviously you have to work through this stuff yourself. Just know that there ARE people that won't cheat and aren't this apparently gullible.