SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I will not be moving out. My wife has moved all of her stuff into the basement.

You should start watching your expenses and save some money.

I'd cut the air off to the basement.

Missed some posts. So you have full exposure. Good. Only cockroaches and cheaters like the dark.

I'm in much the same boat so there were some tears for such a familiar story. My wife too played the pawn for the excitement. Meanwhile, I paid the fucking bills, mortgage and kept the whole engine running. The mind movies still haunt me 1 1/2 years later.

If I had to guess, I'll leave, but it won't be the cruel blindside she gave me.

I know for me, what I usually recommend is wait 6 months to make any life changing decisions, especially if you don't know what you want. If it's a deal breaker, then do be it and the sooner you file, the sooner you can get to your healing path.

In the meantime you turn down the volume on what your WW's saying and you watch her actions. Words are meaning less. But if her actions start to show true remorse, you may have something to work with. Right now you don't have that. Right now her actions are still extremely selfish and if history with how your WW behaved proves itself again, I don't have a lot of faith in your WW to come around.

Have you checked these out yet:

Before You Say Reconcile...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

Before you say reconcile...Recover!

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=561390

For the foggy, unremorseful, cake eaters:

20/20 Hindsight: What I should have done when I J F O

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=446349

I think she's far from being truly remorseful and you and your kids are going to get hurt again someday. Or worse your situation at home gets more toxic between everyone because she's not remorseful and the wake of the A consumes the household.

yop

Regret is the norm. Regret is regretting the upheavals. Remorse is feeling the pain of the betrayed. One is intellectual the other is found in empathy. Perphaps your wife will not know empathy until one of her sons is harmed n the sameway.

There is no statue of limitations of changing your mind. Write this out 200 times a day. I have read 10 months or so for the BS to begin to clearly begin to understand the depth of their emoptions. I have also read that less than 15% of men stayed married long term (10 or more years) after a wife commits adultery. Again read, but seems true.

You have made a descision to reconcile, honor it. Honor it by fighting for the truth at all times as you have. Honor it by not demanding she wear a ashen cloth and wonder the streets wailing woa is me. But most of all honor it by being honest with yourself and demanding the return of the respect you give others.

What indication would I have that my wife is healthy to be around? My last post was detailing her explanation of how the affair came to be. That's her interpretation of the events that she has vocalize to me and her siblings. What more should I expect at this point?

That she stop giving you excuses (interpretations of the events) for her behavior - wanted money, attention, blah, blah, blah...

She needs to start articulating why she wanted that attention, etc. Big difference between saying, "I just wanted attention because I was in a bad place," and, "I have really bad boundaries. I am working to understand why I would allow another man to come on to me, and why I would think it was ok."

Just saying, well, I was in a bad place and it won't happen again, is not working on her issues. It's just excuse giving and rugsweeping.

She had thoughts that one day they could be together and she could have that lifestyle.

"I should have left years ago!"

She says she never wanted to end our marriage.

She says she never loved him and always loved me.

She never wanted to end your marriage. She had thoughts she could be together with him.

She always loved you. She should have left you years ago.

Someone is lying.

The lack of remorse and sugar coating continue to improve. I don't believe she consciously avoids expressing remorse and sugar coats the truth. I believe it is self preservation.

I am open for challenges to my thoughts. So please challenge me.

Feelings. How can you change your feelings? Feelings do change, but how? Has your feelings ever changed? What was the impetus that caused your feelings to change? Using your own experience on changes in feelings, how could her feelings change?

I think you do a disservice to your wife. She is an adult. You are giving her excuses where no such excuses exist. The stuff about her not being conscious for self-preservation.

Given her conflicting statements, some of them are lies. Maybe all of them.

One possible reason is that she is struggling with her feelings vs. her outcomes. If that is true, then she may be sometimes showing her true feelings, but then other times she may tell you the lie of what you want - i.e., that she never thought of leaving you.

Given her statements and her actions, I think it is clear enough to me that she was considering leaving you and she had consumed this toxic cocktail of the fantasy good life with the other man, and you being out of the picture. I believe she considered it. I don't know how invested she was in that. But I do believe she considered it.

In my opinion, I see a woman who lost her romantic love for you. Maybe she lost her respect for you. I do not know why, but I think it is possible. Certainly, the way she acts to you right now is extremely disrespectful. As a comparison, I doubt she will show the attitude and tone to her father, or her siblings, as she shows to you. To you, it is half the time dripping in disrespect and contempt. Yes, contempt, in my opinion, is very clear there to you. Why, I don't know. But I do not see that contempt and disrespect to the other people she loves, like her father, her siblings, even her friend, even her best friend on whom she cheated (she did it behind her back through actions, but she will not talk like that to her face). So why will she talk to you that way? The contempt. Is it lack of respect? Why?

Did she make you as her means to happiness in life? Was she expecting you to provide happiness, and if that means a one-tenth of one-percenter lifestyle, than gosh darn it, why can't you do that for her? Is that part of it?

She knows right from wrong. She knows how she is supposed to act. In my opinion, she wants things that are wrong - cheating, avarice, betrayal - and this causes some of her conflicted statements. She says the things she knows she should say if she is a moral person doing right, and then she tells the truth of how she feels, which is not moral or right.

What is the current status of Mrs. Bedman? Is she saying she wants to work on the marriage today, or is she saying she should have left you years ago today? If she should have left you years ago, why does she feel that? Or is she saying she needs "time to figure it out" today?

I joke around a lot, even when under stress or when things are going bad. If I were you, I might get some school supplies from one of your kids, a poster paper and some markers, and make a poster that says "how is Mrs. Bedman feeling today?" Something like this:

[This message edited by wk55hn at 3:53 AM, June 18th (Saturday)]

what should you expect at this point ??

How about being married to someone who won't cheat on you ? How about being married to someone who will give you her "A" game emotionally and sexually ? How about someone who hops into immediate remorse rather than continuing to make things difficult for you ? How about expecting to work on yourself and stop defending her or making excuses but instead build up your self esteem, confidence and have an exit strategy that will protect yourself ?

Alaska77 is correct. Conflict in the household hurts the kids more than living in single parent households. Even if you resolve the conflict, you will never be able to get completely over what she has said and what you discovered.

I have said this before on this board. None of us make commission on spending time here. However, some of us have different beliefs and strategies. Mine usually looks 5-10 years out. WE know what the "NOW" is. If you are willing to live with what she did and her reactions to you in the immediate aftermath, then you will forever be married to someone who has a serious character flaw and will not fix it and may actually repeat it despite your pain

It's all on you. You have not been decisive. That does not mean you haven't done anything well. But you are trying to climb Everest and you've been at it for a while and haven't even reached Base Camp yet.

What is your gameplan from here on out ?

What more should I expect at this point?

Bedman, if it is a reconciled marriage you want then you should not just expect but demand and not settle for anything less than blubbering, bend over backward, will do anything for you to heal and save this marriage, will initiate and research ways to help you heal, save this marriage, and find the real reason she cheated behavior and actions.

You expect: No defensiveness. No blameshifting. No deceit. No derision. No scorn. No disrespect. No excuses.

She has no remorse. What you describe is regret.

She has a deep rooted issue beyond her excuses. And you want to base the rest of your marriage on the excuses because it is easier. Excuses. Flimsy ones that clearly indicate she can come up with more the next time she wants to pretend "Pretty Woman" with a rich guy (or young guy, or buff guy, or outgoing guy, or whomever next time).

Accepting her excuses is only easier right now. Easier doesn't feel better. Easier festers. Easier doesn't last.

It sounds to me you want to sit and wait until she has some real remorse and you can get things back to normal. If this is the plan, then 180 while you heal because an unremorseful spouse will ruin your healing.

And sitting and waiting is unlikely to get her to remorse.

I know it is awful. I am sorry it is the situation you have to deal with.

[This message edited by quedagh at 8:29 AM, June 18th (Saturday)]

NLR.

[This message edited by Rockeater at 3:05 PM, July 3rd (Sunday)]

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on my situation. Yes some of them are sobering. I do feel that some advice seems to be rather decisive and rash. While all affairs have similarities not all WW's that are initially unremorseful remain unremorseful. My wife has made immense strides in her approach to me and my feelings and these changes happened in days and weeks and have started to be self motivated. I hope it gets better. Do i want to be with someone that disrepected me and cheated on me. Most people would say no. Can i come to a spot where i accept that human beings my WW make mistakes. That some of these mistakes are because of errors in judgement or character flaws, I think I may be able to accept this in my wife eventually. Maybe I won't. To draw the line on certain human character flaws is pompous and naive. It's early days. Working on my self esteem, and or codependancy issues will only improve myself, which may in turn change my perspective. I do feel there is a little bit of collusion in thought that goes into advice on these boards. I would also say that I have received great advice as well. I hope to receive more advice good or bad. I think my experience so far has said that not making quick decisions in the wake of an affair can be good and can be detrimental. Serving divorce papers immediately won't be or wasnt necessary. Furthermore you have to wait 12 months in Canada before that is possible. Rushing to spend money on a separation proposal I am not so sure that would have benefited me to the degree some people suggest. The advice to expose my wife and her affair was great. I did act decisively on this and it has had positive affects on my self esteem and on my wifes levels of remorse and empathy.

To be fair my forum entries were highly focused on my WW's negative and questionable behaviour. Her denial,lack of remorse and disregard for my feelings in the early days of DD has made this a lot harder. That I discovered the affair just as it was accelerating gives me nightmares. Being divored won't change thaT. As our MC has pointed out we don't know what the outcome will be but you will have more regret if you won't explore overcoming these obstacles. You'll never know what could have been. Divorce is not much easier and sometimes harder work. Again it's early days but I believe what my MC said to me when she Called me after I cancelled our sessions going forward given the lack of remorse and disrespect my wife was showing me.

My wife said to me today she was angry with her AP in how he manipulated her. My wife is naive. Her AP is a seasoned veteran at cheating and getting people to do things that benefit him. She was clearly not thinking soundly. I recognize this sounds like excusing her decisions in the affair. She acknowledges she made the ultimate decisons in being with him. This guy essentially complimented his way into my wifes pants. I can't remember the last time I complimented my my wife prior to the affair. The fact of the matter is that some people are more prone to affairs than others. Spending intimate alone time with the opposite sex is a recipe for disaster for some. An affair is unavoidable for some. For sake of confidentiality I have avoided some details to her affair. My wife is self employed in some of what she does. That self employment has her work intimately one on one with her clients just by the nature of the job. I knew she was working with her AP but thought that him being her BF's made the whole interaction benign. I was ignorant to human nature and the susceptibility of some to affairs. The big lesson to me is that I should never have given her permission to spend time with this guy. I knew his reputation. My wife is a very attractive fit woman. Her mother died her marriage wasn't the strongest and this guy's looks and smooth talk made my wife make some inexcusable decisions.

I hope I am not here a year from now saying you were right that R is pie in the sky for these situations. That i was crazy saying what i just said. I could be naive.

I have been ruminating about how the AP has essentially gotten away with his part of the deed unscathed. I envision running into the AP in my neighbourhood. I would beat him to a pulp. I have a plan a vision on how this looks and how to cripple him so he can't retaliate. Don't be mistaken I have plenty of anger for my WW. I also realize that this anger is not a healthy spot to be but it is where I am at times so early on since DD. I know the AP's 16 year Olds sons contact information. I know the AP cherishes his time being a father. I am contemplating contacting the son to let him know the type of person his father is and the part he played in destroying my family.

Clarification. I pulled old deleted texts from my wifes phone that support the diary version of the affair. I listened to my WW explain the affair in generalities. I have asked her questions on the details of the affair and all her answers are consistent. Her other friend 'the cheer leader' has coroborated the story. Her time away from the house matches the diary. It's true. She has never said she loved or loves the AP. The rest doesn't make sense from a logical persons perspective. Some affairs defy logic.

A few things....leave his kid alone. I assume it would piss you off if he contacted your kids? Of course. Leave his kid alone.

An affair is never...ever..a mistake. It's a choice. A series of choices.

You think by giving her permission that,had you not, this affair may not have happened? She would have found some other way.

Wk55hn... love the graph...

Yes she would have retained the AP as a client regardless of my permission. The affair would have happened. I concede that. Did she choose to be put into a high risk environment. Yes. Did she know it was high risk at the time. No.

I don't think it would happen again. Unfortunately some things have to be learned the hard way.

Any ideas on how to fuck with the AP? Or am I crazy?

Children are 100% off limits.

Is the AP married?

Yeah, I know that when you on the other side, it can seem like group think here. The truth, and one day you'll be recognize this (when you're able to look back on this more objectively because time has helped you heal), is that the group think advice here is to get the WS out of the fog and remorseful as quickly as possible. Our goal is to help you - the BS that is suffering and needs support. You'll also begin to see that their really aren't any "unique" or "special" affairs. They are pretty much all the same.

NC goes for you to. Your ww, and you, both stay NC with AP. If he attempts contact,ignore. If he continues, have your attorney send him an official NC letter,with threat of legal consequences if he violates it again.

You have more than enough on your plate. You're dealing with a ww...raising three little kids...And you need to begin healing from this traumas. You can't do that if you focus on AP. So stop. He's irrelevant. Your problem is with your ww.

But...please....no matter what...leave his son alone. 16...or 10...or 7...or 5....it doesn't matter. A kid is a kid. And you should understand, if you do cross that line...you're inviting him to do the same with your kids. Just leave the kids out of it. They're innocent.

Wk55hn... love the graph...

Yeah. Me too.

Only I would need one for - feeling "Drunk" for my ExH.

Opp, edited to see it is there as, Loaded.

[This message edited by shiloe at 6:48 PM, June 20th (Monday)]

Once you have exposed AP to his BS or exBS, you interaction with him done. Stay away from his kid. Even physical violence is not worth it. You have a lot more to lose than you have to gain by fighting him. It really is sh*tty but there isn't much more you can do in regards to OM.

Something in your post struck me. You said something like you had not given your wife a compliment prior to the A and some other things that sounded you were willing to shoulder some of the blame. If that is the case, stop that right now. Your lack of compliments had nothing to do with her choice to cheat. Look at it this way. You sound like she did some things sexually with OM that you wanted but never got. Did you look for those outside your M?

No one really can tell you you what to do. What people here can do for you is offer you an outside perspective on your situation based on the information you give. We may not have seen this exact movie, but we've seen more than our fair share of movies just like it, and the sad thing is there are only a finite number of ways these movies end. Use the experience on the forum to help you chart your course to whatever destination you want. If you say you want to R, then great, people will help you with that.

Any ideas on how to fuck with the AP? Or am I crazy?

No, AP deserves a good fucking with. Problem is, this guy probably has resources to mess you up. Are you exposed where he could knock you down a notch? My wife's other man was so pathetic it was easy for me to blow him up and he had no recourse. Also, I was not as worried about my wife's reactions. I didn't give a fuck myself. You seem a little too worried about your wife's reaction to upset the applecart. Leave it alone for now and focus on yourself.