SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think a problem you are having is that you are still taking blame for her affair. You still believe if you had been less controlling, or less angry, or less demanding that this would not have happen. You can own 50% of the problems in the marriage but the affair was/is all on her. From what you've written it appears you are the breadwinner (while she has a job she can just walk away from on a whim) you do all the finances. Did she take care of the house? Most of the cleaning?

Cook all the meals? From what you've written it looks like she spends a lot of time gaming and with online friends. Dont' you think that played apart in you being angry? In you feeling frustrated? She is rewriting your marital history and you are believing it.

You've told her you are open to reconcile in many, many ways and she has thrown it in your face by continuing to contact OM and by leaving.

I don't believe you were ever really doing a hard 180. That you would fold in she tried to talk with you. You need to start a hard 180 now.

The one thing left to do is change the online banking password as it will force her to create her own username/password. But she will text me asking why I did it, do I respond at all? She said she's very hurt right now, if I blow everything up it reinforces her images of me in her head. Is there any way to walk the fine line or is it just nuclear or bust? It's still early, which means that my goal is getting her back and I'm having such a hard time turning that into improving myself and my independence.

Change the password. She needs space from you that include you financially supporting her while she continues her relationship with OM. She wanted to move in with her parents let them see what she is spending her money on and what she is doing with her time. She could be saving for a visit to OM and you would be financing that.

When she tries to contact you to ask why you did it post her message her and let SI wisdom tell you what to write back. It will probably be something as simple as "I don't trust where the money is being spent. You wanted space I'm giving you space."

I also think she needs to know that you plan to divorce her if she continues this separation. She doesn't want a divorce she wants you for your financial support and OM for fun and ego kibbles. She might hope for more to come out of her and OM's relationship but she doesn't want to lose you while she sees what happens with him.

Detach no contact until the training. She will realize that she can't have both of you.

The soft 180 is doing nothing but renforce that she can cake eat for as long as she wants.

Also her family knows and they are mad at me, but are also mad at her. But in the end they will support her.

Yes, they will.

It is clear that you are destined to learn things the hard way. That is ok, many of us have to go through the process.

You do what you must do to satisfy your heart and head. I wish you peace and happiness in whatever way that comes.

Falk

I think you are making your marriage and situation too complex.

Plus, you are involving too many people and factors in your decision process.

IMHO it really boils down to some simple answers to simple questions:

#1 Do YOU want to be married to her?

#2 Does SHE want to be married to you?

#3 Do you BOTH have the same vision or concept on what being married is?

#4 Are you BOTH willing to commit to that joint vision?

If the answer to all the above is YES, then your marriage has a shot.

If the answer to one or more of the above is NO, then you don’t have a marriage.

When I read your posts, I see so much confusion. I see terrible communications. I see manipulation and fear. I encourage you in the strongest way possible to ask yourself the above questions. OK – so #2 to #4 depends on what she says but if your answer to #1 is YES then ask her the rest

Be clear on this: The answers need to be YES. Not yes, but… No maybe if... Silence is an answer – it’s a “no”. There should be nothing unclear in her answers. It shouldn’t take some days to contemplate. Marriage is a lot like breathing – you can’t just stop and think it will survive.

If you both say “yes” to all the above, then it’s a given that not talking to OM takes place. You can then work from there. But if she does NOT say “yes” … well no marriage. It’s not a threat. Its a given consequence for two people that do not have the same interest in remaining married and/or the same view on what a marriage really is.

What scorched earth approach are you worried about?

I don’t think you can or should cut her off financially, throw her out of the house or anything like that. But I do believe that if you can’t both answer the above 4 questions with a YES then what either of you is saying is that you don’t want to be married. Marriage is a voluntary union. It’s not slavery. It’s entered freely and can be gotten out of just as freely.

There is no “scorched earth” in telling her that you can’t agree or accept that she – your wife – has chosen another man above you and your wishes. You do not see that as an aggressive, manipulative or unreasonable demand. There is no “scorched earth” in telling her sorry, but maybe you two aren’t compatible and that maybe you two aren’t prepared to remain husband and wife. There is no “scorched earth” in asking an attorney to prepare a reasonable and fair divorce-settlement based on the laws in your state. That’s not “scorched earth”. That’s simply how life is.

What her mom, her dad, your two therapists and her therapist, her friend Jane at the gym and that guy you met at the store buying a newspaper say or think…. Irrelevant.

[This message edited by Bigger at 12:47 PM, September 28th (Friday)]

My therapist said that if she asks why I changed the password to say this:

"You know where I stand. I love you. I want this marriage. I won't be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. You walked out on me and left me with all these responsibilities. I have to take you at your word. Feel free to call the bank and set up your own account, the money isnt gone"

Make sure you take your half of the money left in the bank, otherwise she might wipe the account clean.

Before she left, I Just remembered she made a comment about wanting this to be easy but she can make it hard. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I am in the process of opening my new savings/checking account and I changed the password to the banking site. She can still call and open up her own username, but she will only be able to see the joint stuff.

From what you've written it appears you are the breadwinner (while she has a job she can just walk away from on a whim) you do all the finances. Did she take care of the house? Most of the cleaning? Cook all the meals?

Yes, I made about double what she did. I controlled the finances but she constantly said I was being controlling about money. I was just trying to make it so we could survive since we just bought a house and money was tight. She cooked all the meals. We shared cleaning duties of the house on Saturdays, but during the week it was mostly me.

[This message edited by Falc at 2:29 PM, September 28th (Friday)]

Before she left, I Just remembered she made a comment about wanting this to be easy but she can make it hard

So she's even defiant and threatening you with "making it hard", well why don't you make it really easy for her and D her a$$ and have her served without warning, then ghost her, take half the money from the bank and move on with your life, my friend you don't have a M, your WW is being LOUD and CLEAR that she does NOT want you, she's already chosen to leave you.

After that she said she needed time. That she cares about me and loves me, we hugged and kissed. It's just part of the confusion in my mind, I don't know. She's waffling between leaving and staying. Maybe her mind is made up. I told her I'd give her a reasonable amount of time, if by the time that I am back there next month she still doesn't know or she says no, then I'm divorcing her. I'm going NC until then and protecting myself the best I can.

I do not think her family can afford a lawyer. She also said earlier that even if she decided to stay with me she still wanted time to go back home with her family. I guess if she wanted time, she should've just bought a round trip and not shipped all her stuff home.

[This message edited by Falc at 3:24 PM, September 28th (Friday)]

Dude, she's going to string you along for as long as you're willing to be led by the nose. You'll go to visit her and she'll still be uncertain, but tell you enough to keep you on the string.

Some people need to be hit up side the head with a 2x4 a few dozen times before they realize they could avoid pain by simply changing their path to avoid getting hammered. You will at some point realize this.

You are married to a child. It sounds like she went from mommy and daddy to you, and there hasn't been any real responsibility put on her to do much of anything, and you're getting the bare minimum from her as a result.

Is that what you want?

Quit worrying about what daddy thinks, or what she's saying/doing. Think about yourself and what is best for you, your health, and your sanity.

It's clear you're going to drag your feet on filing for divorce hoping for some romantic reunion when you go to visit. Don't be shocked if you find out she's handing you divorce papers and letting you know that the horrible thing she did that she couldn't talk about was fuck someone else, and not just virtually. If nothing else does it, that should wake you up.

[This message edited by Fbtjax at 3:40 PM, September 28th (Friday)]

Thank you for the bluntness. Please understand that this is still not even 2 weeks fresh. I found out Sunday two weekends ago and in the span of 1.5 weeks she shipped her shit and moved out. I am completely confused and devastated. I am definitely not ready to file now, I need time to detach. I have done a lot to protect myself over the last couple days, I should get some credit there. I still love this person, she was my world. I just need time to detach.

[This message edited by Falc at 3:45 PM, September 28th (Friday)]

If you’re unsure about D don’t do it. There is no rush on your part to make any decision. You need to take time to process the trama and figure out what you want. You’re in shock now. But in the mean time don’t play pick me. The only way that there is hope of saving it is to risk it all. You don’t (and shouldn’t) be mean about it, but you do need to be clear and firm, something along the lines of “I love you and I want you as my wife, but I’m unwilling to share you with another man. You can have any secret relationship you want, but not as my wife” and keep it that simple and don’t reinterate it over and over. She isn’t at a point to understand or help you now. Also don’t over emote speak matter of factly and tell her your in pain but don’t yell or cry in front of her.

Also realize that in order to excuse her own behavior, she has to cast you in the worst light possible. She will rewrite your entire history together with her as the put upon princess and you as the villain, it’s textbook cheater behavior. Even if you’re 10 times worse than she said, you may have deserved a divorce, but you didn’t deserve to be cheated on. I’m sorry you’re going through this.

I feel your pain. It sucks and your mind is a whirlwind of activity that you cant stop. I get 3.5 -6 hours of sleep a night which isn't enough over 3 months. At least she was honest? that don't heal anything I know. youre not acting pathetic at all. It's normal its my reaction. youre not alone and youre in good company. Im still psychotic so I have nothing as far as advice, but there are so many people here who have been through this that will offer you advice. its hard to take this advice but try to. it helps over time if you hang on and keep posting. no one has ever judged me here no matter how weird or psychotic I am rambling on about my problems and everyone seems to care and lend an ear so they can help good luck

You will get through this. She cannot make it hard. Do not allow her to have access to funds. Keep an amount separate with 1/2 the amount of money left over after all bills have been paid on the day she left. Now keep finances separate in only your name.

Focus on yourself and your healing.

Thank you for the bluntness. Please understand that this is still not even 2 weeks fresh. I found out Sunday two weekends ago and in the span of 1.5 weeks she shipped her shit and moved out. I am completely confused and devastated. I am definitely not ready to file now, I need time to detach. I have done a lot to protect myself over the last couple days, I should get some credit there. I still love this person, she was my world. I just need time to detach.

What's to be confused about? She moved out. She moved half way across the country when she did so. She has the backing of her family in this endeavor.

I completely understand being devastated. I understand the reluctance to detach. And yes, you do deserve credit for what you've done so far, but you've basically gone into a gun fight with a cap gun and a couple of rubber bands. She's firing a bazooka at you point blank, and you're doing the pick me dance. She's got you on a string, and she knows it. Until you very clearly cut the string and regain your manhood, this thing is going to beat you to a pulp.

Years ago when I was single, I learned a valuable lesson that he who cares the least wins. She's proving that to be true. If you really want to regain some of your dignity, keep working on the 180, and just cut off contact for a while, even if she's texting you or calling you. Let her wonder where your head is at for a while, and while you're on that break, REALLY work on getting stronger and more .

Despite the moves you've made to protect yourself, the one that most clearly gives you the upper hand is to go ahead and file for D, and not worry about "can I file for divorce and still let her know that I want to reconcile?" You're not divorced until you are, so you can stop the process at any time, but you need to let her know that you are absolutely serious, and the only way to do that is to file for divorce knowing that there's a likelihood that it will actually end in divorce.

Maybe it won't, but ultimately reconciliation requires two people to participate, and right now it sounds like your child bride is simply not interested in putting in the effort required. How long do you let that linger before you say to hell with it? Maybe filing scares her back into reality and you see the kind of effort making it worthwhile to reconcile.

I get the pain and apprehension. I do. I've been where you're at. My wife was scared straight (at least I think so) because I gave her a very clear picture of what her life would be like post-divorce. It cleared the fog very quickly.

I guess if she wanted time, she should've just bought a round trip and not shipped all her stuff home.

Words are meaningless. Her actions tell you more.

Hey Falc (())

I am so sorry this is happening to you. I know your heart is broken. I am a BW in R, btw.

Reading your posts, I see that that the gravity of what your wife has done and is doing to your marriage hasn't quite sunk in yet. It took a long time to sink in for me, too. In the early days, the infidelity is hard to really fathom for the depth of betrayal that it is. It is easy to fall into making false equivalencies between what the ws did/does and your own failings in the marriage, like being too controlling sometimes, or having a temper.

Especially when we are panicking about losing this precious thing that feels like the center of our whole universe, our mind is trying really hard to protect us from the fact that this person--OUR person who was going to always be there--has already destroyed the most precious parts of what we had together. We don't want to fathom that, so we go into a sort of denial.

Unfortunately, if we operate from that place of denial instead of a place of hard, hard honesty with ourselves, we enable further destruction of ourselves, and also completely sabotage any chance that those precious things that our M was built on might someday be rebuilt, with tremendous pain and effort.

To help you understand what I mean, I am going to give you a metaphor for what is happening to you right now. I want you to think about your current situation in terms of this metaphor.

You and your wife own a home together. You come home one day to find your wife using a sledgehammer to tear down the walls and ceiling of your house. You run to her in dismay and horror: "wife! what are you doing?!" She responds that she doesn't like the house any more. She complains that you were doing a bad job of taking care of the house. You didn't clean it enough, and made messes all the time. You spilled beer on the floor and now it's all sticky. Plus, the decorations aren't nice--you never let her pick out nice new things for the house. So lately, she's been looking around at the house and feeling miserable and trapped. She tells you all this while she is actively wrecking the place with this sledgehammer.

You follow her around as she continues to smash wall after wall, floors and ceilings and windows. You tell her you're so sorry that you've been making such a mess! You didn't know how important it was to her to get new decorations! You are willing to do whatever you can to help her feel happy and fulfilled in this house!

She shrugs and goes into another room and smashes some more things. Then she turns around and looks at you and tearfully asks you to stay in this smashed room so that she can go upstairs and smash some more, because she needs time and space to think if this is a house that she could ever really be happy in. She hugs you and kisses you and tells you she loves this house, she just doesn't know if she can live here any more.

You are freaking out because you don't want her to destroy the house. You love the house, and you love her, and you want to start fixing things. You tell her that, and she reminds you that you are definitely the one who ruined the house for her, and she isn't ready to let you start doing a better job taking care of the house yet, because she needs more time.

She tells you that maybe in a few hours you can come upstairs and you can talk about the house some more. She'll see how she feels. But maybe by then she'll be ready to start talking about how the two of you can make the house better. Then she walks out of the room, smashing things as she goes, leaving you in the middle of a pile of rubble.

You hear her smash her way up the stairs, and then you hear her demolishing the whole upstairs in the distance.

^ This is the situation you are in. This is the picture that outsiders to your situation who have been there can see. You are very close to it, and in shock and trauma, and can't see it entirely clearly. But this is what is happening to you.

Your wife isn't just "taking space," she is actively demolishing every precious thing you have with her, with each passing second that she carries on with this other man. And please be assured that carrying on they are.

So when you express concerns that if you act too harshly, or draw a line in the sand, that it may push her over the edge...what we can see that you cannot yet, is that she is already way, way, way over the edge. She has already demolished most of your house, including most of the foundation (honesty, trust). It is beyond repair now, the house you HAD with your wife. Pieces of ceiling are falling on your head. The floor is giving out from under you.

The house you had is already completely destroyed. It is in ruins. And you are standing in it, alone and in danger.

So, while you are wondering what "smart move" you can make to get HER to stop sledgehammering and come back to the room where you are, or if you should check on her to make sure a piece of drywall isn't about to jab her in the face, the rest of us can see that these are ultimately the completely wrong things to be wondering.

Because you are in a ruined, demolished marriage that SHE has ruined and is continuing to ruin. You may not have been the best husband, blah blah blah (very likely most of these complaints were very minor in her mind until she needed a reason to justify being unfaithful). But really, truly, nothing you did destroyed the marriage. SHE destroyed the marriage. And it IS destroyed--the marriage you HAD.

Given that reality, you only have one possible option to save YOURSELF right now. You cannot save her, you cannot save the marriage you HAD, you just can't. Period. She is sledgehammering, and has told you to leave her alone to keep at it.

You ONE option for self-preservation is to LEAVE the house. Right. Now.

It could collapse on you at any time. Get. Out.

If she is shouting threats at you as you try to leave, about how there will be no hope for the house if you do that, or she will make things really bad for, let yourself laugh at those comments a little bit, despite the horror of it all. The house will only be beyond repair if YOU leave?? Really?? LOOK AROUND, dude. She could "make this hard"?? Really??? Do you feel that she is currently making things easy??

You don't do the 180 to get them back. That is NOT what it is for. It is not a "show" you put on, to make them realize how strong and awesome you are.

You do the 180 to SAVE YOURSELF. And to remind YOURSELF how strong and awesome you are.

And sometimes, when you do that--when you run out of the house and brush the bits of paint and wood and drywall off yourself and find a nice, new place to stay with awesome, nice new people, and stop worrying about what the crazy person is doing to your old house, because you have already written off that loss--sometimes the crazy person will come to their senses, put down the sledgehammer, and run to your nice, new place, finally realizing that it was THEM who completely destroyed it all, and beg you to let them build a NEW house with you. Not fix the old house, that thing is F'ed. But maybe together, you can build something new, if they can make you believe that they have fixed the crazy that made them sledgehammer your whole old life.

But that is NOT the goal. That is just a remote possibility that, if it happens, you might really not actually want in the long run anyway.

The goal is to get out of the falling down house with the sledgehammer lunatic in it. She is no longer your wife, and there is nothing to fix.

I hope this helps you get a little clarity. I know it is so painful. And I am so sorry.

Falc, I am sorry you are here. It’s like a kick in the crotch like no other. It has been 3 years since my dday . I remember the shock of being blindsided. Don’t fall into the mistake of taking on responsibility for your wife cheating. None of us are perfect. I made mistakes , but none of them involved cheating . Nothing you did pushed her into someone’s else’s arms. She had plenty of options , like talking to you and suggesting counseling. Yet she took the cowards way out.

Of course she wants to make this easy , for her. She doesn’t want to take responsibility for blowing up the marriage. She wants to get off guilt free all the while blaming it on you because you are supposedly too controlling. That’s just manipulation. You have gotten great advice so far and even though it might seem harsh at times, it’s done from people who have been there. Some of the mistakes we made we don’t want you to make. One of the things I learned is you have to take action to start getting out of infidelity. You deserve better. The sooner your wife understands you don’t deserve the shit sandwich she is serving and you won’t partake of it the better you will feel about yourself. Don’t allow your wife to be in control of this. Don’t just wait around for her to make a move. Start taking action to get out of infidelity.

[This message edited by 1survivor at 8:25 PM, September 28th (Friday)]

Thank you so much for the heartfelt responses. So, pretty much the only thing I have left is to file. I took her off the credit card, I changed the banking password, I opened a new savings and checking account. It's so sudden that I still have trouble not trusting her words. I want to transfer our savings to my new account (the money in there was a gift to me from my dad for the new house). I will change all bills to my new account. The problem is, we made enough money together to cover costs. I'm so in the red now by myself. And when she calls/texts to yell, I ignore?

You don’t answer/ignore. Nothing that she says matter unless it’s to show remorse. But don’t hope on this.

180 is for yourself to detach, not a strategy to win her back

I would take all of the money that your dad gave you for the house. In many states inheritance and gifts from parents are not necessarily community property.

Closing the joint credit card might be a problem.