SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi, I know you have tough convos coming up.

Maybe I can share a bit.

My WH did not want to answer some of my questions. Why? “I don’t want to hurt you”. He was still cheating. “You don’t need to know this”. He was ashamed and guilty. Spilling details is like looking in the mirror- not easy. Explanation of why is most unsatisfying in the early convos. They don’t always know and it takes work to get to the real reasons.

Some questions I asked for details. I now wish i didn’t have the detail. Just be aware the detail boomerangs unexpectedly- mind movies, Triggers, random rage.

It hurts. And the anger that sweeps through you is surprising. Sometimes helpful, sometimes not. Bring a list of your questions in case you get caught up with emotion.

I had a lot of blame shifting. You may get stuff thrown at you that you don’t expect. Stuff not affair related, but gets pulled in through their justification process. And this comes with a healthy dose of anger from them.

I had three DDays. The continued lying was hard to deal with. 1st one he kept cheating and lying for 10 weeks. 2nd one he told all or so I thought. It was 8 hours of agony. I believe he told 80% of the truth. The 3rd one was lies by omission, he omitted years of hand jobs. I am not sure i know it all now. I cross check all the time.

You will be in this stage for a while. I am over a year out and still struggling.

Good luck.

The narcissism angle I do not think matters. My ex would be "on the spectrum" but probably not all that high.

At first my ex said that I had done nothing wrong. Later she came up with reasons. The WW here could too. Especially if things don't go as well as she thinks they will. Maybe she really thinks she can talk her way out of it.

The journal is curious. As if she was prepared for DDay. Maybe she was. Cheaters read these sites too, for their own tips.

Its to early to tell but like most she's probably thinking R is mandatory.

How could you ever replace poor muffin?

There are some thoughts that have been swirling around in my head, after reading your post, that I thought may be worth your consideration.

This two men at the same time is a hard thing to swallow. One is bad enough, there are so many scenarios about that, but two..That's a whole other craziness. That really throws her into another category.

And you impress as a 'man's man' so to speak, and I would bet my last dollar on it that she fully realized what she was doing and that if you found out, what the likely consequences would be. Yet she did it...

And these two men were young, and no attachment either way seemed probable. And the mind twist whether the two knew about each other..If so..another twist in the craziness..

And then you have your dear daughters..

When your wife finally realizes what she has done/what level she has descended too, it will not be good to see.

I am a romantic at heart, and always look to a happy ending but this one has too many twists to it. It is a total mind blow.

Serve her with the divorce papers. She's expecting them, so don't disappoint.. You can always withdraw them if you decide. Alternatively, after the divorce is final, you can begin a new relationship with her if you desire.

And I would recommend being very mindful how much you inform your daughters i.e. mum had an affair over informing them about all the other craziness.

I really hope you come out of this as best possible.

Just be aware the detail boomerangs unexpectedly- mind movies, Triggers, random rage.

This also happens off the charts without the details, trust me. Better to get the details. You don't need to know about every position and orgasm, but you don't need her to sugarcoat and sanitize either.

And I would recommend being very mindful how much you inform your daughters i.e. mum had an affair over informing them about all the other craziness.

"Unfortunately, your mom had a long-term physical relationship with two other men -- that I'm aware of -- and broke our sacred marital covenant. This is unacceptable to me, so I'm divorcing her."

No need for details. No need to sugarcoat either. They are adults.

I agree with Striver. The narcissism thing is essentially immaterial. I have repeatedly called your wife a narcissist because her behavior is narcissistic. On the spectrum, slightly narcissistic, meh. These are distinctions without a difference. Infidelity is a fundamentally selfish, toxic act. Turn it up to 11 if it involves multiple partners, trips, f*ckpads, toys and the like.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck … but it doesn't matter, and not something to get hung up about.

I and others have only brought it up to throw her behavior into stark relief (as if you needed that) and to ensure you are prepared for her to go cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs as soon as you're not playing according to her game plan. Because that is what narcissists do.

But it doesn't matter. Hold firm. Don't let her control the narrative (like I did). Learn from our mistakes.

She has sent me a long e mail of apology

She has a hell of a lot to apologize for.

I think you're doing better than most guys who end up here in your situation. Having your sister attorney lined up already if needed is a good break for you, too.

I'm not sure anyone has written this yet, and maybe you know this, but I've read it many times that reconciliation from infidelity can take 3-5 years of marriage work. So there's that ahead of you if you want to reconcile.

She's pretty slick in her cheating, despite getting caught. She's good at it - had you deceived man. It's going to be tough to trust her again.

One last thing, those two dim bulbs, the OMs. Those fuckers don't know how lucky they are the wrath of God in the form of a college lineman hasn't fallen on them.

Keep your temper in check, read some articles or something on some strategies to cope when you start seeing red.

[This message edited by SnowToArmPits at 11:50 PM, September 2nd (Monday)]

This here,

She told my in laws a bunch of lies that we just weren"t getting along

is worrisome to me.

She lied to her parents, who she knows deep down will have her back no matter what. They may yell or balk for awhile. But in the end blood is thicker than water. And they will side with her. We see it all the time. Just look at LtCdrLost’s thread.

With that in mind. How much more motivated is she to lie to her daughters? She has much more to lose with them. They could hate her. Not talk to her for an extended period of time. Some have even excommunicated their cheating parent from their lives entirely.

In order to preserve some relationship equity with her children she may paint you in a less than truthful light. She does not have to say you beat her in a drunken rage or anything that extreme. Just the classic “He didn’t pay attention to me. I was lonely.”

You know her better than me so if I’m off base just disregard this. But if there is any chance that she might lean this way, watch your back.

I want her to not get her guard up by rejecting the journal and making her re write it. I want the original thoughts .

I’d take the journal in a heart beat, gives you a contemporaneous record.

You’re getting great advice and more importantly, your head is in the right place. I would only add, watch how much information you put out there... you don’t want to identify yourself.

Beyond,

You are doing great as everyone is saying.

Sorry, I was gone all weekend, but you need an emergency freak the F out button when your wife is disclosing.

Your rage will get darker and you may do things you regret. Plan to go it the weights harder than you ever have in your life after she dumps this out.

Warning, she is going to tell you with the girls needing her less, she tried to fill that need with you, but you missed out on some subtle clues she will see as stupid after she lays them out.

Lastly, the timeline and her reading it to you is always better than a journal. It condenses things to a lot of the acts and requires her to read them without the fantasy filters she has installed.

It is the difference between a drunk driver stating, "I only had 2 and the biker wasn't entirely on the shoulder." To, "I was drunk and hit a father of 2 6 year old twins."

Plus it condense the acts without the emotions. The emotions are good later, just the facts might wake her up to how messed up she is. She is going to need some IC.

Remember, don't perfect set or max set while rage lifting. At 260, yeah you can put enough plates on to hurt yourself. Stick to super setting with minimal breaks. Higher calorie burn with less impact. It will wear you out and keep you from messing up your joints.

Well, my wife texted me this morning to ask again what time I would want her to come home. She said her last appointment is at 2 not that far from home. I decided to take the rest of the week off as I have a bunch of unused vacation.

Very sad today . The anger has mellowed and it’s actually

a little nerve wracking waiting now.

I’m going to collect my thoughts and I have a list of questions

I know there has been some difference of opinion on the journal versus timeline. To me the journal was done in real time when it just happened and my feeling is it will be more accurate . I have read that many WW don’t do the timeline right or honestly the first time anyway. I can always demand that if I want it

My guess is she will arrive around 4-5. I’ll be doing a lot of soul searching and thinking the rest of day

Starting now I’m am promising myself to try my best to remain calm and walk away on breaks if I get too riled

Her journal may or may not have the detail you need to process her betrayal. Having her write out the details exposes her fantasy as a betrayal vs a romance.

Your wife is in damage control and already tried to lie to her parents as well as blame you for her adultery. So far she is a typical cheater.

Carry a VAR on you all the time. Why? Because you need to be prepared for anything.

Don't hesitate to hire a PI. Not just while she's out of town on business or for a race - but to gather information on the othermen.

Consider separating your finances/accounts (it sends a strong message).

Depending on the state, divorce is a lengthy process. Serving her with the paperwork starts the process (and establishes zero tolerance for adultery) but you can cancel, postpone or delay as necessary.

Keep doing what you have set out to do,

Walking away when it gets to tough is an extremely good idea,

Stay strong BeyondRage,

We are all rooting for you.

((((Strength & hugs))))

I agree with the suggestion for a VAR or some way to record the event, to protect you. Another good option is if you have a friend that you both trust to have them be present. It would change the dynamic, but would probably help keep things calm.

I also wish you luck. It will be a very difficult evening, but you have been handling yourself well.

I hope you receive the answers to your questions, and that you can move towards healing yourself. Focus on yourself and what you need, don't worry about your M right now.

You would be smart to keep your options open. It's early and you really don't know how this is going to turn.

Upfront they are always in self preservation mode and will promise the moon.

You weren't supposed to find out.

Since you're off today it would be a good idea to download and analyze her phone data.

You can go online and get this done in an hour or less.

Dear BeyondRage,

I have assessed your situation via your post and concluded that your WW is an Alpha Female and will try to dominate the conversation. My advice is to stay strong and not stray away from your narrative. Do not show any weakness.

Best,

Bigheart

[This message edited by Bigheart2018 at 12:24 PM, September 3rd (Tuesday)]

Tell her to stay the night at a hotel!

Give yourself an additional 24 hours to pull yourself together.

Good luck

Strength, the hours waiting now are tough, and for later, good to walk away when things become heated, while very difficult staying calm is very very important, anger will not only blur your vision but also may make you do things that you will later regret, stay calm and strength!