SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Brace yourself, cheaters who are only toying with having fun (not searching for the next husband or wife) affair down down down. I wish we found out up comparison charts. It’s ridiculous when you put the BS side-by-side with the AP.

WW, 48, slept with two 30 year old runners. That does not realistically seem like "affairing down." If they are 30 year old guys doing races they may not be married either.

Honestly, a woman just out for NSA sport sex is going to find takers. Plenty of guys out there for the NSA sex, maybe even good looking ones.

It is a question to me in this case why a BH would bother going through reconciling, comparing himself with these guys, maintaining his one way fidelity while WW did not, when he can simply divorce and have his own guilt free, NSA relations with the many women, some more attractive than 48 year old WW, who would be interested?

You were expecting your WW to get home, as per her request, about 4 or 5 yesterday. You had a plan and were prepared. Well, as prepared as one can be in such a shitty situation. How did it go? Are you okay?

More and more I am finding people in their late 30's 40's and 50's doing dumb stuff like this! What are they regressing? What is she thinking! She is 48 these guys see her as noting more than a sex toy? Why risk destroying your life and the life or your kids for nasty teenage like sex? These guys see her as noting but a cum dumpster! No way they want anything serious form her! Not if they are having sex with her at the same time! People like this is why I don't want to marry anymore! Thanks but no thanks! She is approaching 50, How long does she think she can keep this up? Not only that, Heaven help her if he tell hers kids! She is in for a sad future.....

You were expecting your WW to get home, as per her request, about 4 or 5 yesterday. You had a plan and were prepared. Well, as prepared as one can be in such a shitty situation. How did it go? Are you okay?

I'm still here. Long night. I am still not through the journal but I can tell you that it was a good decision to start with that. A lot of questions answered. I will get to that.

But first, I want clear up a few misconceptions that have been posted.

I told her to pack her bags and tell her parents, who live about an hour away, whatever the F she wants to, and that if she did not go I would tell them and our kids who are all old enough to know and understand.

There have been comments going a bit bonkers that she did not tell her parents. Sorry, on this one I never told her to go tell her parents. I screamed at her to tell them the fuck what she wants. Sorry, I am not buying that most people in her situation at that moment, having just being tossed out of the house, would run home, walk into the house, and say "Hi mom and Dad. Hubby threw me out because i am a cheating slut." I actually did not really want her to tell her parents. At the moment I just wanted her away from me.

Second, there seems to be some opinion that she nonchalantly told me when she would get home yesterday. She told me she had an appointment at 2 and ASKED if it would be OK if she came before nighttime.

Maybe I did not explain it right, but I hope it is clearer now.

Third, pertaining to all the advance planning comment. Not really a lot of planning. Entered race, made hotel reservation and went to race. That may be oversimplified, but not as complicated to me as a lot of what I have read here about lying to meet boyfriends while you are in same house watching TV, or planning girls night hook ups and cover stories. Maybe I missed the point

Last night was very very hard, and I am sure that comes as no surprise. If anyone thinks she is overconfident and not scared shitless let that rest. I had all I could do to keep from wanting to hug her and hold her.

She is taking tomorrow off and Friday so we are couped up together here until Monday morning.

So lets start with what I do now know.

(1) The names and what town they live in. She did not know their addresses because any meet ups occurred at her hotel and she has never been to either of their residences. She gave this up with no fight but got down on her knees and pleaded with me not to put myself in jail by physically hurting them. I believe I hope I am too smart to do that. They owe me nothing. Just two young guys who wanted to get laid.

(2) They are BOTH single. She showed me their FB pages and it appears neither has what you would call a steady committed girlfriend. On the affair down comment. One is a pretty good looking guy who is a manager of some sort at a health club. The other is an accountant. Both are runners.

(3) The races were all real. She wrote in great detail after each race, sometimes being pissed at not finishing higher but always had some comments. One thing she said repeatedly when she finished very high up was how she wished I was there to cheer for her.

That stung because she was right. A lot of times I was home in my recliner drinking a beer watching sports on TV. In the years I played football she never missed a game, was always there to try to cheer me up if I played bad or we lost, and nursed me through numerous injuries. She got none of that in return from me. Not an excuse. just a fact.

Her girlfriend IS NOT a direct employee of her company but is a contractor. They met and started running and had a group of about five or six that would go to the same races. My wife knew nothing about the open marriage thing until the first time the woman got real friendly with a guy, and my wife asked WTF is that all about. So the girlfriend is in an open marriage and that is also written about in the journal.

She went to store to buy us some groceries so I will end this now. I have more of the journal to read and then get to questions and answers .

One last thing. I have both of her phones , work and personal, in my possession and she has mine at the store. The OM, which was actually who I call #2, has been blowing up her phone with texts so she obviously ghosted him because he is asking why did she stand him up. From the messages he is sending, she has not responded to him.

I have a VAR. Just need to figure out when and how to get it in car without her becoming suspicious.

And lastly, I have gotten a LOT of advice to IMMEDIATELY divorce. That is not even going to be on the table until I know as much as I want to and after a polygraph. And I can make it start quick as I have said. So there is no need to keep pounding away on that YET.

Thank you all again.

I need some rest. It will be another long night

Well, I arrive home, and she is not there. Turns out she ran to store, but as i go into the bedroom staring me in the face is her open suitcase and right on top is lingerie I have never seen, sex toys I have never seen, lube, and condoms. Now, I have a hair trigger temper anyway and I guess you can imagine what happened when she got home.

Since she warned you not to ask questions you don't want the answer to, I suspect she was having a lot of sexual acts that you were denied or maybe thought were too kinky.

Be ready for that.

Be very very careful. You are minimizing.

She did plan.

Didn't find out by finding a suitcase with lube, and lingerie?

It's good you are getting answers, but remember you are dealing with a liar who lies.

One last thing. I have both of her phones , work and personal, in my possession and she has mine at the store. The OM, which was actually who I call #2, has been blowing up her phone with texts so she obviously ghosted him because he is asking why did she stand him up. From the messages he is sending, she has not responded to him.

Send him a text telling him you are her husband and just found out all about the affair. Ask him for his address since you just might have her delivered to him.

One thing she said repeatedly when she finished very high up was how she wished I was there to cheer for her.

That stung because she was right. A lot of times I was home in my recliner drinking a beer watching sports on TV. In the years I played football she never missed a game, was always there to try to cheer me up if I played bad or we lost, and nursed me through numerous injuries. She got none of that in return from me. Not an excuse. just a fact.

If that was an issue, she could have talked to you about it, demanded marriage counseling, divorced you even. There's a whole decision tree to things we can do when we feel our partner isn't properly reciprocating which DO NOT involve adultery. And you're right, there's no excuse. You might have up to 50% responsibility for what was happening in the marriage, but no more than that. She's an adult with a mouth and agency. It was up to her to bring these things to your attention if they were pertinent and to see them fully addressed. The cheating is 100% on her.

It's really natural for us to do a bit of navel-gazing after DDay, wondering what we might have done differently to prevent the cheating. But really, that's a control mechanism that most of us have engaged in to try to feel more safe. i.e. If we had done x, y, or z, the cheating wouldn't have occurred, so if we always do x, y, or z in future, problem solved. We won't get cheated on again. You see how that works?

I'm not pointing this out in an effort to egg you on toward anger and away from empathy with your WS. I'm just saying it's fairly ubiquitous for the BS to try and take on some blame. It's self-protection. But as you proceed forward, if there's any room at all for R, your WS must correct the character deficits which allowed deceit and betrayal to be choices. We can't MAKE other people behave in ways which are contrary to our core character and inner values. Nothing you did (or didn't do) made her choose to cheat. And if she's going to recover, she's going to need to acknowledge and repair these deficits in her character, those gaps in which her stated values do not align with her actions.

Hope that makes sense.

And lastly, I have gotten a LOT of advice to IMMEDIATELY divorce.

If you ever get enough time to read through the Just Found Out forum, you'll find the same suggestion a very common response.

Divorce is always an option, and infidelity is always a deal breaker.

Hell, I spent the first few MONTHS not knowing which way was up. It takes time to sort through to see what you want and if you have a person with you who can become a safe partner.

Even if she can be a safe partner, it will still take time to sort out what you need -- or if you choose to give her one last chance.

It is too early, in my opinion, to suggest staying or leaving. It's a volatile time right after discovery and betrayal is a very unique form of trauma.

Catch your breath. Get sleep whenever possible and take care of yourself.

You'll get through, with any path you choose.

Do her journals discuss when she decided to start having sex with the first? And why? How about the second? Clearly it wasn't about getting a man to cheer her while running. I'm assuming the sex took place at times that she was not actually running in a race.

Yours is a somewhat unique thread because the adulterous sex activity was so highly compartmentalized. Was she really just cavalierly enjoying some extracurricular on the theory of no harm no foul? Did she not consider that most marriage vows include express promises of fidelity?

Immediate divorce is not what I consider a recommended course of action. I think you're going to have, if not months, then weeks of trickle-truth and evasion.

So keep D on the table as you move forward. There is no rush, but it definitely needs to be an option you seriously consider. IMHO.

You not going to her races, was it a big thing in the past? Did she encourage you and you chose not to go, was she disappointed if you didn;t? Did you stop going to races at some time?

Did you keep in touch when she was on racing weekends?

Before she found a way to entertain herself on the road did she ask you to come along?

Did she travel or meet up with other women racers who brought their husbands to the races or did the gas travel solo?

Did her shenanigans begin after she met the open marriage friend or was it not related. Did open marriage gal encourage her?

Do you think there may be a little bit of revisionist history going on about your lack of attendance at the races.

You are doing as well as can be expected... hang in there and take care of yourself this week and weekend.

Clearly she was not looking to exit the marriage. It sounds like she essentially had several one night stands for lack of a better term. By ONS I mean in concept... not one long EA and PA but several hookups. Something in her is broken and she isn't safe for you or the marriage. But she is showing some good early signs that she may be able to become safe again. If you end up wanting to R, the early look is that she may well be a good candidate for it.

Personally I find this type of affair to have a higher chance of reconciliation than other types. I am not pushing you to R, I just think that (for me) it is easier than if the WS had fallen in love and had a long term PA with one AP. Certain things are more recoverable than others. LTAs in and around the home and the WS making derisive comments about the BS are some of the worst offenses, imo. Your WS didn't seem to do these things, unless you found comments in her diary or phone you haven't shared with us yet. If that is accurate, then I think it will be easier to R if you end up deciding to do so.

Glad to hear your WW is scared shitless. That is certainly preferable to being defensive and defiant. Still sounds like mid-life crap to me. You said in your initial post that her friend in the open M egged her on at every turn to be unfaithful. I would want to know specifics. Why did she follow her friend and agree to be unfaithful? She could have just let her friend go her own way. Why continue after doing it more than once? Why not confess and stop? What was her end game if she had not been caught? Just continue to cheat? I would want to know the answers or at least her explanations. Just being resentful because you were not there to cheer her on is certainly no excuse. She could have talked to you about it. Sounds like it was a situation where she was caught up in the excitement of an illicit A. She would not be the first. Stupid mid-life crap IMO.

“I have got a lot of advice to immediately D.” There is a saying here: “take the advice you can use and leave the rest.” You do you. Take your time and figure out what you want to do. Be vigilant and watch your WW’s actions, not her words. This is a marathon and not a sprint. Whatever you ultimately decide to do, R or D, you will receive support here. Both are valid options for you. This is all very new and raw for you. Take time to process your emotions. If you decide at some point that your WW’s infidelity is a dealbreaker for you, divorce is always an option. Right now take care of you and talk to your WW and get the answers you need. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 1:54 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]

BR, do not take any blame for the affair. So many times, the BS will look at the relationship, or get a marriage counselor involved and the blame gets shifted onto the BS for things they did or did not do. Thats nonsense.

No matter what you did or did not do, the affair is not your fault. Don't take any blame for not going to her races. If it was that important to her, she should have voiced it. Plain and simple. All BSs do that. Don't, you'll regret it later down the road.

What you need to ask yourself is what if you didnt catch her? Who was she planning on meeting up with with that suitcase full of toys, and how many more would there have been. She was out to have fun, and for all you know, she didnt want you at the races b/c you would be C- blocking her.

Fist and foremost her friend should be cut out of both of your lives like cancer! But first you should find out if she really was I an open marriage? If she truly was not, I will hep you wife see she was partially manipulated....

There’s a few common patterns to cheaters, such as the "exit affair ", or the "I felt hopelessly in love with the OM, what was I thinking?"

Like some other posters have pointed out, your WW seems to have had an affair of the type "no strings attached, a little fun on the side".

I really hope she doesn’t tell you "it was only sex, it didn’t mean anything". Somehow, many WW think that BH would then say: AH! You were not in love? That’s fine then, don’t worry about it!

Just like all cheaters, she thought she would never get caught. I mean, how could you possibly know what she’s doing at the hotel? She still "loves" you and loves her family and never had any intention of leaving you. I think it’s unlikely that she cheated before, she seems pretty sloppy at hiding her affair. Imagine if she had to cancel the race last minute, and you happened to be standing next to her while she gets a text from the OM asking why she stood him up?

I bet she thought "if I get caught, it would be bad LOL". But just like watching someone getting hit by a car on TV and actually getting hit by a car, feelin your bones break, there’s a world of difference.

Of course all the above is just speculation... I’m just hoping that if it fits, it can help you making the next decision, whatever it might be.

The details of what she did with the OM will be hard. That is why I suggested to make her read it. To drive home the shame really well. Don’t let her blame shift. She will need to take full responsibility, take the burden of the shame, have the remorse, all that to make sure it never happens again (if you choose to R)

Stay calm and firm. When reading how you handle all this, it’s pretty obvious that in the long run, you’ll be just fine, whether you D or R.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 2:34 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]

Hi BeyondRage,

I am very sorry for what you are going through at the moment. I know this is probably no consolation, but I think you are handling this incredibly well and wisely.

I think all of our hearts go out to you as you continue to go through that journal. It is incredibly hard, but many thousands of members of this forum (there are more than seventy thousand now) have had to go through the same process, because not knowing feels unbearable.

Although the journal could have been redacted or edited (depending on whether it is digital or ink on paper), you are getting far more truth and openness than many people here have had in a period of years after they discovered their spouse was cheating.

At the moment, you are very much in investigative mode, and that should be your focus, but longer term there are several big issues that will have to be figured out if you choose to stay with your wife.

What happens to her relationship with her open marriage friend and their little group, all of whom must have known what was going on? None of them are friends of your marriage, and they are a bad influence.

Are you going to have to go to every race meeting your wife goes to to make sure she is not continuing her post-race activities, or is she going to stop all future overnight stays and trips without you?

Given the nature of her job, travelling alone and unsupervised, how is she going to assure you that she is not meeting up with men during the day, or inventing bogus appointments?

And one thing I urge you to ask your wife, which is very rarely suggested here, is this:

"You made this mess. How are you going to fix it?"

Now, there is a state of mind that says infidelity cannot be fixed, because the past cannot be undone, and toothpaste cannot be put back in the tube. However, if we accept that rewinding and making it never happen is not an option, I still think it is entirely valid - and positive - to put the ball firmly in the cheating spouse's court and make them come up with a plan and a bunch of things they can do to prove that they are not still cheating, and deserve a second chance.

That is where you can get your wife to come up with ideas that you might not even think of in terms of letting you know where she is and who she is with.

Let her come up with answers for what she is going to do when she sees her affair partners in future, and they try to approach her.

Let her come up with a solution for what to do about her open marriage friend and the toxic influence and impact she has had on your wife and your marriage. Personally, I would not want them within a hundred miles of each other ever again, but it is up to you to make those decisions, and up to your wife if she is prepared to end toxic friendships to prove she is worth receiving a second chance.

This is all down to your wife to fix, and by putting it to her that way, she will buy into it if she really does want that chance.

Obviously, you do not want to be a marital policeman for the rest of your life, but for the time being it would be wise to monitor phone bills, credit card use, location information via Google maps/Find my friends on cell phones, a decent GPS tracker for her car (which she is unaware of), and a VAR for her car, and also one or two in strategic locations in the house where she might make calls when you are not around.

If you want to rattle your wife's confidence about her freedom to be as bad as she likes when you are not around, you could say that while you want to trust her, that is going to take time to return, so there will be times when you will have a private eye watching her. Whether or not you choose to actually use one is entirely up to you, but planting that seed of doubt in her mind may be no bad thing. And it can work for you 24/7, free of charge, even if you never hire a PI for as much as ten minutes.

Another test that can be applied is to have a bouquet of flowers sent to her workplace, with the message, "Why won't you talk to me? I miss you so much", and then see if she tells you straight away, or ever. Hopefully your wife will agree to tell you if any of her affair partners contact her, and tests like this can verify whether she actually means it.

Do those things sound a little cruel, or like a dirty trick? Maybe. However, infidelity is not exactly a loving gift either, and your goal in all of this is to get yourself out of a state of infidelity.

The tools and tactics you employ to achieve that are entirely up to you, and nothing I have suggested is mandatory. Rather, I - and others - will make suggestions to try to give you as wide a range of options from which you can choose and use those that feel right or likely to be effective for you.

In parallel with that, many here can advise you on what to look for in your wife's actions in the coming days, weeks, and months.

A very effective book that many here recommend is "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. It is a concise guide to a lot of practical steps that a cheating spouse can take after their affair has been discovered. It can be bought in book and audio book form, and can also be found as a free pdf to download.

Both of you need to get STD tests as soon as possible. Do not rely on your wife saying condoms were always used, because there are way too many stories here of betrayed spouses believing that and then finding they have herpes or something worse. Your wife has no idea who else her affair partners were sleeping with, no matter how 'clean' they may appear on their Facebook pages.

Personally speaking, I think it would be wise for you to consult an attorney and get a picture of what divorce would look like. And let your wife know you are doing it. You may not choose to go that route, but it sends a powerful message out that what your wife has done will not just be swept under the rug, or that her position in your life and the marriage is guaranteed, regardless of what she does.

You are not a vindictive man, or a bully, but seriously, throwing a scare into your wife would be no bad thing if you want her to turn her back on cheating as a lifestyle option in future.

If you do choose to try and make it work with her, stress that divorce papers will be served the second there is even a hint of any inappropriate contact with another man. And that when that happens, everyone you know, including your daughters and her employer, will be told the full story.

Let her mull that over.

It does not matter if you would never do that in a thousand years, what matters is that she does not know for sure that you won't.

I apologise if some of this sounds like dirty fighting, but infidelity is a dirty mindset, and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire to destroy the sense of security that makes people think they can cheat and get away with it.

We all feel deeply for you, BR, because we have walked the same road ourselves, and we know how that is. Whatever decisions you make will be respected here, because each of us had to create our own path out of infidelity. There is no magic one-size-fits-all solution that works for everyone.

When these forums work best is when they present you with an array of options, suggestions, and methods, and you pick the ones that you like and bolt them together to create the right solution for you.

Not really a lot of planning. Entered race, made hotel reservation and went to race. That may be oversimplified, but not as complicated to me as a lot of what I have read here about lying to meet boyfriends.

BeyondRage

You’re correct. It’s not a lot of planning but you forgot: Pack lingerie, sex toys, lube and condoms.

The OM, which was actually who I call #2, has been blowing up her phone with texts so she obviously ghosted him because he is asking why did she stand him up.

BeyondRage

You also forgot: Make arrangements with one of two boyfriends that will be there anyway to run.

Also lie to my husband by omission as to what I’m doing.

I would describe your wife’s actions as the convenient or accessory affair. No need to make special travel plans just love the one you happen to be with anyway. I’m not sure if that makes her better than the people who change their travel plans for their affairs. Maybe she's just lazy or tight with her money. Who paid for the hotel room?

I played football she never missed a game, was always there to try to cheer me up if I played bad or we lost, and nursed me through numerous injuries. She got none of that in return from me. Not an excuse. just a fact.

BeyondRage

You seem to be taking some of the blame yourself. What was her work schedule when she was attending your football games? What was your work schedule when you were not attending her races? Did you have kids when you played football? Who looked after the kids when she was at the races?

The OM, which was actually who I call #2, has been blowing up her phone with texts so she obviously ghosted him because he is asking why did she stand him up.

BeyondRage

Plus I bet she wasn’t very aggressive about asking you to attend her races when she had a date lined up. People put off signals and I bet, at best. her signals were that she didn’t care if you came to her races or not.

She wrote in great detail after each race...One thing she said repeatedly when she finished very high up was how she wished I was there to cheer for her.

BeyondRage

I’m sure this is true. I often have similar wishes that my deceased parents could magically pop in on special occasions and see how well their grandchildren are doing.

If you could magically pop in to cheer for your wife and then pop out I have no doubt that she would have sincerely loved it. But if she wanted this to happen in real life she would have to give up a chance for sex with one of her boyfriends.

She wrote this in her journal but did she ever tell you how much she wanted you there? How much pressure did she put on you to attend? I’m sure if she said it would mean the world to her if you were there you would have gone. Then she could have celebration sex with you.

[This message edited by Michigan at 4:19 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]

The main reason a lot of people will tell you to file is to wake her up. Like someone said earlier, lots of WS are in this fog where they don't see how bad the repercussions will be for their actions. I didn't recommend it, but I usually recommend filing at least. It lights a fire that takes about a year to settle out.

The main thing I will mention is that like the others mentioned, several ONS. Probably due to a feeling she missed out on things when younger and has some strange resentments. Kind of FOMO for middle aged women. Especially considering things are changing with the kids growing up and their lack of needing her made her fill that void with partying.

Now to the hard advice: DO NOT DO MARRIAGE COUNSELING NOW!

Everyone on here will tell you this piece of advice. She needs IC and a solid reason why she cheated and how you can trust she won't do it again until you can start marriage counseling.

Stay strong. Maybe recommend she start posting in the Wayward Side. I have seen some waywards really get the program after getting chewed up over there.