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1) ...When I forced the issue to tell the kids we were getting divorced, I noticed a change in her.

2) ...She has begun to lean in. I’ve implemented the 180 stuff and I believe she is reacting to that. I can sense it.

3) ...Any contact after July 4th was initiated by OP. I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt here.

4) She doesn’t hide the phone like she used to.

Betrayed spouses also behave like addicts. Our drug is referred to here on SI as "hopium". It's the opiate of the BS. Beware. For a BH in the throes of trauma due to a cheating wife, every tiny whiff of hopium is like that glass pipe to a crack addict. Another 5 minutes of avoiding the inevitable.

My blunt opinion: you're whiffing hopium.

5) ...I’ve been watching the mileage on her car, it would be hard for her to do the 140 mile round trip without me noticing. ...Also, she has slipped a couple of times with her phone by setting it down without closing it…I’ve looked, no texts, calls, or messenger (I know, I’m an auditor, the answer is yes of course she could have deleted them)....I have a plan to get the records from her phone, stay tuned.

Is this what you want? You being a marriage cop while she white knuckles it minute-to-minute? What sort of family are you modeling for the kids, among other things.

Why not instead walk out the door. If she follows, asks you to not leave, takes action on her own to prove she is (a) safe, and (b) committed, then reconsider. But not until then. You should not be "asking her" to do anything. She should never be in a position to say "I did what you asked." Rather, she should constantly be saying: "What else can I do?"

3) The last major blowout we had she said, “I’m trying, I’m doing what you asked, I’ve agreed to no contact with him and I’ve had no contact with him…can we just go a few days without you threatening divorce.”

In general, true R works when the WW is the one taking the initiative, offering up the boundaries and rules, proving to her BH that she is 100% both feet in. "I'm doing what you asked" translates to: "I'm doing the bare minimum to keep you whiffing the hopium, without taking any initiative on my own."

The mantra here on SI: stop trying to control the outcome. You can't do it. To save the marriage, you have to be willing to lose it. We say that because R does NOT mean clinging desperately to the old, broken, toxic marriage, which is what you're doing. R needs two things: (a) the WW must figure out what is broken in her moral compass and fix it, reinventing herself into somebody new, somebody better, somebody worthy of trust, and then, after that is done, (b) you fall in love with the "new her" and together, you reinvent a new, different marriage.

The first step, she needs to do that on her own. My observation is that in the vast majority of cases, a WW only does this when the BH is out the door. It's not about "threatening" divorce. It's about her knowing for a fact that divorce is proceeding, because you no longer wish to be married to the "old her".

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:49 AM, October 16th (Friday)]

The 180 is for you. It is not a set of tactics aimed at bringing the WS back into the M.

Your best approach is to make your W's reactions to the 180 are irrelevant to what you do.

Sisson

I will re read them with that in mind.

This is hard.

Having a hard time today.

When I caught her texting for the second time, wait no, the third time (I forget at this point) I stopped the direct deposit of my bi-weekly paycheck to our joint account.

She called today to ask if I restarted that. I said no. She asked why. I said I'm not ready... she hung up.

The difficult conversations have to continue. I'm not good at this. I think I'm going to have to put stuff down in writing, I'm not good at difficult conversations. She's better at it than I am.

Deniel, you say she was texting the AP. Was she doing that by regular text messages? Check her phone for any other type of messaging aps which wont show up on the phone bill. For instance, my WS used Whats Ap & Google Hangouts. Many affairs go underground & cheaters come up with all kids of different ways to still be in contact.

She is very much still int he affair fog (if not still in the actual A) My WS stopped when he realized I was serious about divorce & took action. Hiring the lawyer, etc. I did all the roller coasters that you went through. If she feels you are still wanting to be with her & she can have her fun on the side too, why stop? I would be very wary of what she is doing.

When I caught her texting for the second time, wait no, the third time (I forget at this point) I stopped the direct deposit of my bi-weekly paycheck to our joint account.

She called today to ask if I restarted that. I said no. She asked why. I said I'm not ready... she hung up.

So this has told you in total clarity the following.

1. She thinks she is in control, this must change

2. You now know the money is important, I suspect more than you believe.

The difficult conversations have to continue. I'm not good at this. I think I'm going to have to put stuff down in writing, I'm not good at difficult conversations. She's better at it than I am.

Not difficult at all now. She has told you who she is and her agenda. You will need to determine if her agenda is compatible with yours (most likely it is not). YOU must take the control away from her, she does not have your best interests at heart.

Assume everything she is telling you is a lie, an omission, or a manipulation and push your agenda. Unfortunately, you will most likely see a person you will be surprised by and not like very much.

Remember she is not the person you married or thought she was, she is something else now and has been for a long time.

Keep the above in mind and you'll find more strength and clarity than you know you had in your body.

Hi DanielJK,

I read you story, it was hard to read, it was very painful, not because what you WW did, but because the way you handled the situation!

I did write a full reply and was ready to submit it.. But deleted it because it was extremely harsh, the way you handled the situation!

Most likely I was going to get band!

Warning: A 2x4 incoming!

The moment she said: “YOU WILL NOT CONTROL ME” was the moment you should've filed for divorce immediately, showed her some backbone and decisiveness, the affair could have stopped and never escalate to physical!

You didn't do any thing, you did the pick me dance on steroids, and pretty much enabled her to escalate the affair to become physical!

You allowed it to escalate!

You didn't show strength, decisiveness and self respect when she was doing all this, and that is one of the main reasons why she lost attraction to you and couldn't even say she "loves you" anymore!

It was a one sided relationship. You have been doing all the work, all the "love yous", asking her repeatedly to stop texting the other guy but she didn't care and was texting him and sending him nudes in front of you and under your nose, rubbing it in your face without fear of any consequences or shame, she had you by the balls, with full grip, you did nothing, and you allowed it to continue, it was pathetic!

She told you jump, and you said how high?

She told you she stopped texting him and went full NC, you make a U turn and drive back home, hug and kiss her, there was no consequences what so ever, you were very very desperate!

At that point when she saw how easy and desperate you are and how fast you forgave her without showing her any consequences for something very serious such as infidelity, she knew she was married to a chump, and a weak husband, who didn't stand for himself and respected himself, she lost all attraction to you, and she compared you to the other guys and you lost!

What you did was extremely embarrassing! (You said it yourself)

You also wrote:

Starting to realize that I was emotionally abused and perhaps "gaslighted."

You were not emotionally abused, don't fool yourself, she didn't tie a rope around you neck and made you stay and abused you, you kept yourself in this situation, you allowed it to continue over and over until it escalated to sex, because you were afraid to take the proper actions to end this madness, every time you try to start the separation process you stop it and pull yourself back into this madness, it was you who allowed this emotional abuse, you could have removed yourself from it, put your foot down, show her consequences, if you have done it soon, from the start, the chances for a physical affair would have been very low if never, but you were to weak to take a stand!

She doesn't love you or care about you, she didn't care about your feelings and how much hurt your were experiencing, and still you want to reconcile with her!

The audacity of texting her boyfriend in front of you and the sex toy meetup episode echos two things:

1- Your wife flipped out and became a different person!

From the way you handled things, I think it's number 2!

The other guy was brave, takes what he wants, doesn't take no for an answer, strong and confidant, brave and persistent, goes for the kill, and he doesn't take bullshit from anyone, that turned her on and made her addicted to him, he is the Alpha male she craved for, and she was willing to risk everything for him!

She fill in love with him!

Now she tells you she has no contact with him and it's over, are you sure about that?!

You know she can call him from work, or she can have a burner phone and uses it at work or somewhere in your house?!

Hidden encrypted chatting Apps (There are tens of them on the App store) that don't show on your mobile network plan!

You know he can travel closer to hookup with her or did you not?!

You always assumed that he is far and she couldn't travel easily without you known, but you forgot that he can travel!

Or do you even know if this is an exit affair?! Remember the internet searches you found:

A few days later the internet searches showed “John Doe divorce,” “John and Jane Doe divorce”, “John and Jane Smith-Doe divorce”, “John Doe Massachusetts divorce records.” This is aggressive searching if you ask me. John Doe is an ex-boyfriend from 26 years ago.

She maybe started planing to get her ducks in a row and kick you to the curb, divorce you and go off with him and she is telling you she ended it to buy more time to sort out her finance!

Or like many cheaters wait for the kids to go to college and leave!

If you don't think it was an exit affair, then ask yourself why does she care to search the divorce records to know if AP is divorced or not?!

And if you ask any lawyer he will tell you that who initiate the divorce process always has the upper hand!

You told her:

"if you can’t stop texting right now, divorce me! Get out of my life!"

Judging from this she had full control of this marriage. She has a full grip on you!

You should be the one getting her out of your life and divorcing her cheating disrespectful ass, but you didn't!

Truly tell me, what does that say about you?!

And all your energy and effort was focused on no contact with her boyfriend and left the other very important factors!

She has no remorse, or shame, none!

And you are willing to let it slide and reconcile based on just no contact!

She needs to face consequences, so what's you plan on that?!

One thing you really need to do is what HellFire posted:

HellFire:

You need IC to get your self esteem,and self respect back.

DanielJK, I do apologize if I was hash, or disrespectful, it's not my intent, but you need a wake up call. Yes you are the betrayed spouse, and you are the victim, but man did you do every thing wrong! You did it so wrong even the members here probably had heart burns and aced reflexes reading your story and replies!

Good luck buddy, you will need it!

[This message edited by Kaliber at 6:23 AM, October 18th (Sunday)]

I understand the no more Mr. nice guy. Believe me when I tell you I am out the door on any indication of contact (or she’s out the door, not sure how that is going to work). I will be “out the door” one way or the other and have no problem filing for divorce outside mediation if she chooses not to go that route.

Daniel, this is a good start but look around you. Every single poster here has had infidelity touch their lives personally and made a mess of it. The vast majority of us have or had a cheating spouse or partner. Most of us who post read here very frequently if not daily. We have all been there. Some of the little details to our stories are different but how a cheating spouse acts and what needs to happen before R is possible is ALWAYS the same. It's like baking a cake. You need the right ingredients and to follow the steps or what you get at the end is not a good result.

Even IF your WW has truly given up the OM, you need to raise your bar a little higher than just NC. Infidelity is a big deal and a WW like yours who goes back to the OM over and over again is more like a heroine addict or alcoholic than just a spouse with some bad behavior. She needs therapy. She needs to figure out how and why she did it. She needs to genuinely WANT to help you and stay married to you. If all she's doing is worrying about herself, worrying about where your money is going, and trying to skirt past making any real changes or doing whatever you need to feel safe in your marriage, you will be back here with another DDay. You will find yourself miserably in limbo fighting an uphill battle in the absolutely BEST of circumstances. And you will likely find yourself staring down D because no one can live that way long term even if she doesn't cheat again. She may even be the one to initiate it. It does happen because she doesn't want to be in a miserable marriage where she feels controlled and trapped even if it's a trap entirely of her own making.

You're much better off figuring out now if she's going to stick around and make it work or if she's going to run once it gets hard again. You're better off D'ing now if she doesn't give you what you need for R than if you wait around months or years for this to reach its natural conclusion. Read around. You will see tons of situations in which a BS is fighting their WS to get them in to R and what a terrible way that is to live. You will also see couples who successfully R'd only after the BS filed for D. So don't be afraid to call a lawyer or two if she's acting entitled and selfish because it might be the only way to R with her if it's going to happen.

Update 10/18/2020

I figured out the new password to her phone. I was looking for messages from OP1...none, whew good. But who us this Jonathan guy in the Facebook messages. He asks "send me a hot pic." And "actually I just need a hug...a naked hug that is." She replies "a hug clothed or unclothed works." This is a second OP.

Good God who the fuck is this person I'm married to. I'm living with a psychopath and this is the mother of my children. I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

This new guy is married. I've seen guidance on here that says notify the spouse on the other side. I did. He immediately contacted my wife to tell her what I did.

She finally agreed to continue mediation because i "...was so vindictive about this..." she then apologized to him for what happened. Holy Jesus, God in heaven help me heal and move on.

She has told you who she is, ignore it at your own and others risk.

I'm so sorry please start to implement the 180 and work on detaching. Begin the mediation process and only speak with her regarding the kids and finances. You have no other choice unless you want to stay in limbo hell and that will come at the expense of your mental health. She is sick and none of this is your fault or has anything to do with you please remember that.

Yes, I totally agree with crazyblinsded, she is sick and none of this is your fault. You need to come to terms with the disconnect between who you married and who she is now. She is not your friend. Press on with mediation and implement a hard 180. No contact except for finances and custody matters. Otherwise you are just confining yourself to ongoing pain. She will always blame you. She is incapable of introspection. Ugh! Time for you to heal and move forward.

[This message edited by fareast at 7:40 AM, October 19th (Monday)]

Daniel,

So sorry for this latest sucker punch,

please read then reread again the 180, it really is there to help you.

((((hugs))))

The 180 is for you. It is not a set of tactics aimed at bringing the WS back into the M.

Your best approach is to make your W's reactions to the 180 are irrelevant to what you do.

DanielJK, if you are arguing with your WW and especially picking fights with WW, you are NOT following the 180. You need to start the 180 HARD, meaning no contact. That will give you and your WW the 2-3 days with no fights. If she is committed to the M, her actions will show you.

What you are dealing with is very difficult and VERY emotional. The 180 allows you to disconnect and start to look at the situation rationally, not emotionally.

All of the evidence you have provided to us tells us that your WW is NOT interested in R. She is simply trying to placate you while she figures out if she is ready to jump into a full relationship with her AP (in this case, AP2). She may stop for a little while until she thinks you aren't paying attention. But she is NOT fully committed.

I'm married to a sick person.

She got caught again with inappropriate communications with a second man and she gives me the it's harmless talk. It was no big deal, "I didn't send him the picture he asked for."

Here's what bothers me so much about this one.

After my WW found out that I contacted this guys wife, WW apologized to HIM!

WW then coached him on what to say to his wife...how he should lie to her, and the exact lies he should tell his wife.

Then turned to me and scolded me for "being vindictive" because I told his wife.

We're on to divorce.

It terrifies me that this person is the mother of my children. This fucking bitch does not even recognize the path of destruction she left behind her, not only to our family but now to the family of OP (not OP1 but OP2).

I cannot believe that there was actually a second man she was messing with via facebook messenger.

And she continues with the victim mentality. SHE'S the victim here, not me. Holy shit the sick twisted mind on this woman completely baffles me.

God help me. I cannot believe what is happening to me. My family has just been blown up. The fuse was lit it May and the bomb finally went off.

Tigersrule77

You are absolutely right. I wish I ended this long ago.

She would say to me "...I'm in a grey area..." "...I'm conflicted...." "let's just take it day by day..." "...I'm not sure what I want to do, I'm waiting for an aha moment..."

All while keeping the spark alive with not just one but two other men.

I can't tell you how shocked I was to find the second man this weekend.

I should have given her the aha moment at the end of May, I would be so much better off right now. I can't wait for this divorce to be done.

Sounds like you're finally tapping into the anger!!

Not good to be there all the time but it can certainly help you move things forward and get out of infidelity.

She would say to me "...I'm in a grey area..." "...I'm conflicted...." "let's just take it day by day..." "...I'm not sure what I want to do, I'm waiting for an aha moment..."

When a spouse says "I'm conflicted" or "I can't make up my mind" or "I'm so confused, I can't choose".. she really has made a choice. The choice is not making the man she married a priority in her life. The fact that she is considering "choosing" tells you everything-- she made a choice and it wasn't you. Usually this is a stall for time as the Spouse waits for some element to change-- the status of the affair partner's marriage being the usual culprit. Hard to say in your specific case.

The fact that the spouse apologized to the man she was cheating with and defended HIM over you, probably disparaging you in the process, also tells you everything you need to know.

As others have said and will say, you have an unrepentant cheating spouse. What helps in this situation? The 180 plan. Read it, learn it, live it. Give her nothing-- no emotions no plans no feelings. Don't do things for her. Don't have sex with her. Answer in short terms, politely and without any histrionics. Deflect the blame game by diffusing every statement she makes with some bland aphorism like "I'm sorry you feel that, I can see where you feel that." or "I acknowledge your emotions on that. " Just keep it nice and polite and gray rock the heck out of it.

On your own quietly move forward with the divorce. Honestly, there's nothing to save here. She's checked out into entitled land.

[This message edited by KingofNothing at 8:34 AM, October 19th (Monday)]

KingofNothing

I would reply to her and say "you are stringing me along."

And she would adamantly deny it, "I'm not stringing you along." and have some way of deflecting my attention or convincing me that she was not (she's so good at mind games, she's jedi level).

My counselor told me it is the very definition of stringing along.

This is part of the gaslighting. I don't fully understand gaslighting, but she actually had me believing that she was not stringing me along..."she just needed time" I assumed. She convinced me that she was not stringing me along.

I'm just so sick to my stomach. This started in May and just got worse, and worse, and worser that worse. It has been the worst spring and summer of my 50 year old life and now fall is even worse. This divorce can't come soon enough, but I know now I still have several weeks ahead at least (for the divorce to be final that is)...and she still has to find a place to stay (she agreed to move out). God help me. God please help me.

I've lost 30 pounds over the summer and she stood there and watched. She knew I was suffering. How could someone who said they love me watch me suffer like that?

I'm sorry for what you are going through. She didn't seem remorseful - you really should have been getting the "100% all in to save the marriage" reactions from your WW and you were getting crumbs.

Please don't be convinced that this was just a few racy texts. If she thinks sending messages like that during, R right after having a full affair while her husband is trying to learn to trust her...losing weight and in pain... She's no where close to being R material.

two days prior she get mad because you weren't switching you pay back to the join account. That everything wasn't "forgiven" already...

Are you doing a hard 180? Getting your duck in a row?