SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

"You seem stuck in a nice guy feedback loop. Read “No More Mr. Nice Guy” to understand how to break out." -Thumos

This so very very much.

I read this about a month or so ago and acting on my new knowledge has changed my life. If you're honest with yourself, you will hear yourself described in much of the book.

But know that it's not quite as simple as listen, apply and be rewarded. You have to rewire your thinking which took many decades to create. If you're lost 3 miles out in the woods, it's a 3 mile walk back to a safe place. If you're 50 miles lost out in the woods, it's a 50 mile walk back. Each of our journey's are different but it will take time and yet, once you apply, you will immediately appreciate seeing progress....likely.

I'm still ironing out things but this book has been wildly helpful to me. Listening to your words reminds me of the value of this book.

(((DanielJK))) your story was painful to read my STBX also kept continuing his A despite my demands and his faking NC. It is extremely emotionally abusive what she is doing and I wouldn't be surprised if she has some sort of personality disorder with her lack of empathy and everything revolving around her.

I know it's hard to accept that the person you married is not who you thought she was. It will take some time for your heart to catch up with your head. In the meantime I would start the 180 and detach from her. Limit contact to just kids and finances and stop doing things for her.

I think you should get that lease and start the mediation. Right now she is all talk and no action. I wouldn't give her an inch until she commits herself to an IC that specializes in infidelity, she has broken off all contact and will give you access to her phone. I would make her delete any apps that they used to communicate including Facebook. I wouldn't listen to a word she says.

Take care of yourself, make sure you are eating and drinking water. Definitely spend time with your friends and your kids. I would also let your kids know what is going on so they understand what is happening to their dad and will be prepared if there is a D.

DJK,

The advice you have received here is spot on and you need to read and reread it over and over again. Adding anything to this would be in ad nauseam.

I will give this 2X4 though. When you do start to take your life back and get out of this nightmare you are in, she is going to come at you hard! She is a narc and she will do everything she can to keep this life of hers her reality. Stay the Hell away from her! DO NOT TOUCH HER! She is going to LB and HB you like her life depends on it...and quite frankly it does.

Why would she want this to ever end? She has the man she has confessed is the one that got away, the one that makes her slide off her chair, her AP...and she has the other man that is the stability in you.

Start getting yourself out of infidelity, we don't live forever. At this point its self induced abuse....

[This message edited by SlapNutsABingo at 2:54 PM, October 14th (Wednesday)]

I want to add to SlapNuts and reiterate something. When she does return to you, it's going to incredibly hard to refuse her.

As SlapNuts said, you're a big part of her affair in that she has it all, the comforts, stability and family as the foundation in you and sex and fun and naughty play with her AP and not interested in giving up either.

You will be inclined to think she's sincere but the intensity of her affair and treatment of you highly suggests she has no such sincerity at this time. You will want greatly for her to be who she once was, but the likeliness of this is remote.

It’s 10/14/2020…Yay, my wife is back and finally we can get on with life, right? Right??? Hello?…

This is not a situation where your WW comes back and you live happily ever after. As awful as OM is, he is not the problem. Your WW is.

To start - why are you allowing your WW to hide her phone from you? Why did you believe her without verifying NC? Why are you buying into her argument of you being controlling? STOP.

Dump the mediator and start talking to a lawyer. Stop talking to her about the A or R. Tell her ONCE that you will no longer be married to someone who does not give you access to their phone, email, social media accounts, and anything else she may have used to talk to him. She's free to hide these from you but not as your wife. Check out the 180 in the healing library and follow it. Until she hands over her phone and passwords, you are moving on solo. If you're not ready to file for D, don't but get yourself into IC and get to a point where you will walk away if she refuses to be transparent.

If she will not give you transparency, it's because she's still talking to him or wants to start again in the near future without you knowing about it. Your marriage will not make it without her cooperation. If you want off this ride like you say you do, you MUST hold her accountable or accept that the marriage will end either because you will catch her again or she will leave for him and blame you for everything on the way out. MAYBE if you start demanding more from her now, she will do it to save the marriage and start reinvesting in you. It's a long shot given how detached she is and how she believes you are to blame.

Hi OP.

5,000 texts a month, 400 in a day to another man. No spouse wants to or needs to put up with that.

She's led you on a merry dance of "THIS is the time I will quit" ... and again it's not.

She's been doing this for 5 months. You want to be in this situation a year from now?

I think you can only control yourself here - you can control what your future life will be. Your wife has changed and not for the better. Trying to control her isn't working, nagging your wife isn't working.

Put a hard time limit on this nonsense e.g. OP if you're not happy in your marriage 2 months from now (circle the date on the calendar), you're still playing phone cop, she's unrepentant - divorce your wife.

[This message edited by SnowToArmPits at 8:59 PM, October 14th (Wednesday)]

Hey Daniel,

You have received a lot of advice, and I am definitely in agreement with the chorus that your wife is not good R material for you.

One perspective I didn't see has come up in conversations I have recently had with my H. When I first found out about his A's, like your W, he also brought up all the failings of our M as his excuse for the A.

With the perspective of time, he now will admit that the M was fine - he just liked the added excitement of having the As. They were exciting and he liked living a double life (for awhile). He never wanted a divorce and he really didn't want a real relationship with any of the APs, but the high of having the AP on the side was addictive. At times he expressed (to his APs) dissatisfaction with the M, but it was mostly to justify his A and make him seem like less of a shit. He was just really selfish.

Your wife sounds like that. She wants the stability of the M with the excitement of the AP. You are sending mixed signals about where you stand because you know about the AP - she's not hiding it at all, but you seem to be willing to stay. She is telling you what she wants, the question is what do you want? You can probably keep the M, but she won't change. Even if this affair ends, she will probably find another one. If you seem to be down with it, why would she give that extra excitement up? The real red flag for everyone is that she knows it hurts you and she just doesn't seem to care. That is why we all say D.

If you pull the plug on the M, yes she might end up with the AP - or not. That isn't a reason for you to stay. He's not a better match for her, he's an escape. Its not about you.

So you have to decide are you willing to be married to someone who is likely to have a lover on the side or not? You could decide that you are cool with it - at that point you have an open marriage, which is a different thing. Or you could decide not, in which case you two aren't likely to work.

None of us are you, so the ball is totally in your court.

My WS keeps saying "it takes 2

Yes it takes 2. Two people to cheat. Two people to decide to be dishonest and engage in affair.

But your W is the only one who decided to cheat. Nothing you did or didn’t do was a reason fir her to cheat. Period.

I hope you know that.

It has taken me a couple of goes reading through your post.

I was sick at the table with you in August, just before going to Maine for a doozy of a roller coaster ride.

The Wayward mindset never ceases to sicken and amaze me to the point of nausea.

My WS is still resisting D after putting me through everything you have experienced and more. Like you I found SI long after Dday and I allowed the abuse to continue far too long.

You are in good company my friend this sordid story is rather prototypical . Happens every day - Narc meets codependent. Taker meets giver . Patsy meets conman . Predator meets prey. .

Hopefully you completely understand who you are who she is and why you should thank the man who is saving you by taking her out of your life .

Im starting to realize that APs are basically doing Gods own work here - we should give them them some recognition for their tireless acts of humanity

[This message edited by siracha at 10:48 PM, October 14th (Wednesday)]

Lot’s of good advice here. I wish I could respond to everyone.

I can’t say it enough, I wish I found this website sooner.

I feel like I have an army of well informed, articulate experts standing behind me and it’s very reassuring.

You guys are the best…harsh, but I get it now.

I’m seeing some signs of potential R, but we’ll see.

Babette2008

No, I have no interest in an open marriage and that has been made clear to WW.

I’m going to give it a little more time, but decisions need to be made.

LadyG

Thank you, I feel for you too. I’m in a similar situation. I sent a message to the attorney asking to continue mediation about two weeks ago, but WW has not confirmed. Attorney just yesterday responded to the message saying he is going to sit tight until he hears from both of us again. I’m going to give it a little more time. I can tell you the next communication will be with both the attorney and my WW, confirm mediation or expect papers in the next week (see post by Stevesn, I will use his guidance).

I’ve heard it said before that “…my H/W left me…” sometimes I wish I knew what that was like. She left me but she’s still here. I’ve said it to her many times, just go…just go be with OP leave me alone, get out of my life. I feel like I’m in bizzarro world.

It reminds me of a Seinfeld episode where George tries to break up with his girlfriend, he says oh my god my lover and my girlfriend are here together and I got caught, I guess we’ll have to break up…he wanted out…he wanted to break up, finally he had an excuse…she says “no, we can work this out.”

Stevsn

Thank you. Your post is spot on. I have mentioned seeing a counselor again and she will say something like “no, I’m not 100% yet.” I am laying low at the moment, giving it a little more time but I recognize the actions that need to occur before R is possible.

I am keeping your post in my back pocket. I was looking for the words, and your post is helpful.

Nekonamida

She would actually say “you need to put me on a pedestal…” or something like that. I would laugh, she would laugh…but then she must have tucked it away under things to use against him later.

She cheated and it’s my fault. I actually believed it for a period of time and felt awful for it.

Thanks for your reply, I look forward to anything you post later.

Thumos

Man, you are harsh, but I get it.

Someone should have slapped me back in May and said hey this is what is happening to you and here’s what you need to do about it RIGHT NOW!

Thank you for the advice. I know what I have to do. Some may cringe when I say that I am going to give it more time, but I’m going to give it more time. I fell like I may be seeing signs of R finally. However, I’m ready for divorce, I don’t fear it any more like I did.

And your comment on the Rational Male. I am already skeptical. Early in the book he talks about alpha/beta. His example of an alpha male is a kid from Australia who threw a party and got busted for causing lots of damage, but the party was awesome. There is a youtube video of him. The kid is basically Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Honestly, you’re going to give me an example of an alpha male and you use Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High? I have no interest in aspiring to be Spicoli.

Sisoon

Holy crap, limerence? I looked it up, it can last years? Sh--!

That’s it though, you nailed it. In June she and OP were basically a couple…a couple via text mostly. At any given moment in the month of June she could have told you:

What time he got up in the morning

What he had for breakfast

When/if he was going to work

When he left for work

What he was doing

Who he was with

When he got home

What he had for lunch

What he was doing after work

What he had for dinner

When he went to bed; and

His weekend activities

And he could have told you the same about her.

She would text him before and after our activities, “going to walk the dog, chat later?”

“good morning sunshine” “good morning gorgeous” “good morning luv bug”

We were out shopping with the kids one day “I miss you.”

That was in June. I believe that kind of texting stopped after July 4.

In any event, I can’t go years like this.

IC has stopped at the moment. I’m not worried about divorce anymore, mediation or just filing on my own. I don’t fear it like I used to. I work with a financial advisor (for my job that is) who has seen plenty of divorce, he probably has been my best counselor. I’m not worried about me or my kids when it comes to divorce anymore. If it happens, it happens.

I think you’re right, within months of definitive action. I don’t want to be one of those couples who say “let’s just get through the holidays.”

My counselor said the same thing, ask “what has changed?”

I appreciate the post.

Sisoon

one of my problems is, when I ask "what has changed?" what is the answer I'm looking for? What is the right answer?

I'm not good at this.

Also, I've seen posts on here that say I should ask to see the phone, I should ask to see records of communications. Is that a good idea?

Part of me thinks, if I have to ask for those things, and I have that little trust in her...then I already have my answer.

I’m seeing some signs of potential R

You are in denial.

First, R isn't something you decide your are in, and its done. Its a very long process. It literally takes years.

There are very specific things needed to attempt R.

You need a remorseful WS. One who goes NC,and blocks the OM. Forever.

You need a WS who is fully transparent. They give you full access to all of their online accounts, including their phone. Passwords included.

She would have to answer all questions, honestly, for as long as you need to ask them, without anger or defensiveness.

She needs to be tested for stds.

She would need to take a polygraph, so you know the full extent of what you are dealing with.

She would need to be accountable for her time away from you.

And whatever else you need to begin the healing process.

Do you have any of this?

This woman has been exceptionally cruel and abusive. She pushes you over the edge, then gets your hopes up with a few pretty words and sex,meanwhile the affair continues.

You need IC to get your self esteem,and self respect back.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:19 AM, October 15th (Thursday)]

She doesn’t want to go to a counselor w/ you b/c she knows it’s a waste of time b/c she’s still cheating.

My H did the same thing. Refused counseling b/c he knew it was a waste of $.

However when he was told I was D him, suddenly he’s demanding counseling for us.