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I think I just realized something today. Ever since my other half had her affair she has been telling me that she didn’t even realize that something was missing from our relationship until she met her new boy toy. Since this bullshit happened she has been on and on about the 5 love languages and how she really loves words of affirmation. This also happens to be how her boy toy got her her to want drop her panties around her ankles. Now, she has been trying to get me to do these things for her, say all these pretty words. So, I think she is trying to do it for me in hopes I will reciprocate and I absolutely hate it. Everytime she’s says something corny to me she might as well flash a picture of herself with her boy toys member in her mouth. I couldn’t figure out why I was having such trouble with this now, I had no problem telling her she was pretty or anything else before all this fuckery. I have no intentions of becoming her affair partner for her. How do we move forward when what she wants the most makes me want to rip my eyeballs out? Any advice appreciated.

Sincerely,

Many are like it,

But ThisOneIsMine

Ok, so I think relationships can be improved in R. I think the love languages are an OK way of reaching a common understanding of how the other person feels most appreciated.

I think the problem here is the way she brought it up and directly compared the jollies the AP gave her to the ones you give her. The comparison will always make for unhappiness. Furthermore, it is unlikely that anything was *really* missing. She was enjoying her cake eating, and is now wondering if there is any way to get that cake eating feeling without an A. Frankly, there isn't.

The reality is that monogamy is never a replacement for variety. It's one person. You have to set your expectations accordingly. They will have things you love, and things that annoy you. The things someone else does might be something your spouse simply doesn't. That's the price of entry.

So, let's say for the sake of the argument, you can't stomach forced words of affirmation similar to the AP's. You probably DO appreciate your wife. So just make an effort vocalize it when you do. You don't have to bullshit her, and shutdown ANY comparison she makes to AP. "AP would say I was the most beautiful woman in the world!" Some people are built for that bullshit. Personally I'm not. I'm more of a "You look pretty and full of energy today" kind of guy. Maybe I'm just the only asshole in the world that is ok not having the most beautiful woman in the world as his wife. IDK. If that's not enough for her, there is always the door.

Also, if you are going to use love languages to get on the same page, you should figure out your love language and tell her it isn't words of affirmation for you, it's physical touch (or whatever). Tell her, "affirmation doesn't do much for me. To feel appreciated I need XYZ."

TOIM, I have to ask - what has she done to become a safe partner to you? Is she using the "something missing" as a reason why she had the A? This seems like a really thoughtless thing for a WS to say who has dug deep into themselves and gone from cheater to good spouse. But it does make sense when said by a WS who has spent this time rugsweeping instead of R'ing.

She isn’t ready for R. She is acting very selfish with “her needs”. She is basically telling you to be more like AP. Don’t let her call the shots in R, you run this show. She needs to help you heal, not mold you into her boy toy.

Have you told her your love language is faithfulness, devotion, remorsefulness and unbridled gratitude you're still in her life?

Love language goes both ways. Ask her what she thinks yours is and if she's been providing it? If she caught off guard with your question and takes more than 2 seconds to respond, then she's trying to make something up.

If she admits she doesn't know what your language is ask whey hasn't she asked you considering she was so interested in you speaking her language.

If she says she knows what it is, ask when was she planning to start giving it to you. Follow that up by telling her it will be at that time or shortly thereafter, you two can start discussing hers. Not the other way around. First things first.

Let's not forget, she's the one that cheated and has to win you back, not vice versa.

Oh god. The affair wasn’t poor muffins fault.

All i can can say is if this is her attitude what happens next time a shiny object crosses her path?

Round 2.

[This message edited by Marz at 3:20 PM, May 17th (Monday)]

Interesting.

Yep, I think I did this at first too. Not compare him to the AP at all, but I thought that what was needed was to make the relationship better.

That is a person who still believes they cheated because of the relationship. That's a false belief. Truth is we are all responsible for our own happiness. People who cheat rely on others for their feelings.

She needs to dig deeper into her whys of the affair. The things should all be internal to her - nothing external. For example here are two whys for me:

-I was a people pleaser and didn't speak up when I wasn't happy.

-I was avoidant and never believed I had the power to change the situation so I would resign myself to things and then avoid dealing with them.

In order to be happy I had to learn to change those things about myself. Not just have people say nice things.

I definitely had an affair looking for validation, but the reasons I needed validations were all mine and mine alone. When I learned to remedy this, and take accountability, I know without a doubt I can be alone and be happy. A relationship should enhance our lives not be our lives.

So, if she does go through the journey of changing herself by gaining a self awareness and trying to modify based on that - then maybe you can think about reconciliation if you still want it. But, she wants to skip to that. She probably doesn't know any better - has she seen any professionals on this? It's a common pitfall to go straight into trying to fix the relationship.

It's just short sighted, because if you change who you are then it changes what you want and need from a relationship. By the time I got through a lot of that, I didn't see a need to do much in the way of coaching his behaviors. I learned what I needed, how to ask for it, and I was fully remorseful in knowing what I did to him. It tempered a lot of it.

First Recovery - everyone needs a chance to recover a bit from all that just happened. Typically the BS is in shock and the WS is disoriented/shame spiralling. Then, the WS heals the WS, the BS heals with the WS providing the right environment and working their butts off to show they know how wrong they were. Then, the two can heal the relationship. She is skipping over a lot of steps, it's no wonder this is upsetting you and grating.

That is a person who still believes they cheated because of the relationship. That's a false belief. Truth is we are all responsible for our own happiness. People who cheat rely on others for their feelings.

Lather, rinse, repeat......over and over and over. ^^^^^^^^THIS!!!!!!!!! Mike drop. End of point needed to be made.

So I haven’t posted much of the back story but we are over a year into reconciliation. She has done most things right. She trickle truthed for six months, had to rewrite her timeline and be honest about things though. She gives me full access to stufff. I feel the same about how she is still trying to blame the relationship with this stuff but she continues to say it’s something she needs and didn’t realize it before her affair. Words of affirmation is her love language. I would like to be able to do it for her but it makes me totally cringe and insecure that she needs it. It makes me worry about what happens when the next guy with a golden tongue comes along. Idk. Like I said it makes me want to rip my eyeballs out. I explained this to her the other day. We shall we what happens. I’m not big on the counseling thing. I haven’t asked for it and don’t want to do it myself. She’s read tons of stuff. I get the value of counseling it’s just not for me. We tried twice and neither really ended well after about 6 sessions each. One of them told me to I have to stop being the victim at some point. That was the last time we spoke to that itch! Anyway, thanks for the advice. Hikingout many of your whys also align with hers pretty much exactly. She just seems to feel she can’t live without words of affirmation now despite years and years, mostly happy years maybe, without them before this.

[This message edited by ThisOneisMine at 2:36 PM, May 18th (Tuesday)]

I can understand what you are saying.

I walked away from the affair and thought words for affirmation were needs for me as well. That has always been a weakness in our relationship and it still is today. You know what I learned? If you love yourself and have self worth, that need isn't as strong. And, the OM lied when he said shit to me, do I want someone just to lie to me or do it because I told them to?

A year is not a long time. I had gotten to where I felt truly remorseful by then, but still hadn't grown that terribly much. I feel like the first six months for us was a waste as well. Honestly that's really barely time to recover.

I do disagree about IC - for her, not necessarily for you. It was instrumental for me to get to the point I saw what I was missing in myself and what to do about it. Also, there was a lot of past trauma and patterns I learned in childhood and IC helped me identify all that. Your wife is still insisting on change from you that is unreasonable at this time. If she understood how much damage is actually there she would not be looking to you for those changes. When I saw it, I knew I could no longer be that person, but the roadmap on what needed to change was one that I needed professional help to come to.

"I feel the same about how she is still trying to blame the relationship with this stuff but she continues to say it’s something she needs and didn’t realize it before her affair."

"She just seems to feel she can’t live without words of affirmation now despite years and years, mostly happy years maybe, without them before this."

Look, I think her trying to communicate her needs (wants?) to you is good. Once again, the problem is how she is bringing it up. "I didn't realize it before the affair". Yeah, we don't need that shit in the discussion. It's a red herring.

"Words of affirmation are my love language." Is a complete thought that doesn't require any explanation of connection to the affair. You might have thought you had ten happy years of marriage. She might not have read these books before. I'm not going to give the A credit. She could have read the book without the A and come to the same realization. I would not invalidate her when she tells you this by saying "everything was fine before!"

You can tell her to stuff it, that's an option. I don't like it myself, but you could.

Like I said, if you want to get on the same page with her, read the book. Tell her your love language, wants, and needs. You might find that you can have a healthy cycle of positive interaction and open communication. I think that people in relationships ought to show love and appreciation for one another. Otherwise, why be in it?

Like I said, if you want to get on the same page with her, read the book. Tell her your love language, wants, and needs. You might find that you can have a healthy cycle of positive interaction and open communication. I think that people in relationships ought to show love and appreciation for one another. Otherwise, why be in it?

I don't disagree with what you are saying thisisfine. Except, to me, you start dealing with the pre-A conditions after you have made the steps to help deal with the A first. The A is the gunshot wound that needs triaged. The not saying nice things is a scratch that can be treated after he's been stabilized from the gunshot wound. He's only 6 months past his last dday. She needs to first deal with her actions which are incongruent with "you didn't tell me I am pretty enough times a week".

HO,

I've always said you can put everything on the table whenever and figure out if it matters. The marriage might have a gunshot wound, but might have also already been terminally ill. If you happen to stabilize the patient, all you are doing is prolonging suffering.

The first thing I wanted to be sure of is that my fWW was not having an exit affair. That it wasn't in fact something lacking in the M (it usually isn't, but sometimes people do have unsalvageable Ms even without the A). I wanted to know my wife didn't have ten years of secret resentment built up against me (who knows with relationship rewriting many experience, she might have lied on this front as a rationalization, but I didn't experience that).

I agree the framing is bad. I agree the motivation is bad. I agree the seeming blameshifting is bad. I just think that *completely ignoring* the information because it is packaged in bullshit isn't the right move.

I've told plenty of folks on here you can't nice them back (and I'm guilty of making such attempts).

So, then my other piece of advice is this. ThisOneisMine, make sure your wife understands that she is hurting you when she brings up the affair in any sort of positive light. Make your negative feelings known. Let her know that saying "the affair made me realize XYZ" is not productive, and immediately triggers a negative response in you. Tell her that following up with forced attempts is just another painful reminder of the A right now. That you do want her to feel loved, supported, and happy, but those issues need to be worked at independently of the A.

Honestly after the affair it’s not about her needs. Just my two cents.

My H tried that whole “love languages” crap. I almost D him right then and there. I was so furious after 30 years he didn’t even know me. I’ll take honesty and respect and humor over the crap in that book. I’d be happy if he loads the dishwasher w/out asking (he does).

TOIM - I’m sorry you are facing this. Perhaps you should tell your wife the truth and that she has poisoned the well by having an affair and you are not able to give her what she wants right now. And she needs to figure out another way to get what she wants.

And you need to also get what you want from her too.

we are over a year into reconciliation. She has done most things right. She trickle truthed for six months, had to rewrite her timeline and be honest about things though.

What's that smell? The gentle waft of the hopium pipe. The way I read the above, about 1/2 of the time since dday was you twisting her arm to get her head out of her ass. No R at all.

You've mentioned nothing about her helping you heal since then. Again, no R at all.

Instead, she is telling you: "If only you would be more like my AP, I could be sexually attracted to you."

Seriously? Is that how who you plan to devote the energy and time to attempt R with?

Have you told her your love language is faithfulness, devotion, remorsefulness and unbridled gratitude you're still in her life?

^^^^^^This^^^^^^^

Your WW needs IC for sure. She may have read the books, but this does not mean she truly understands the content. Until she gets the assistance she needs to understand empathy and to begin to fix her issues, R cannot really move forward. The marriage did not cause the affair. Your WW and her shitty choices did. As you discovered, MC can often enable Wayward thinking. IC for your WW is what is important for now. It is also important to research and interview counselors to determine if they are a good fit. Most importantly, do they have experience with infidelity?

Nothing will ever be enough. You will work your ass off to be the next best thing she needs, and then she will decide she needs something else, and then more, and then more.

Don't do it man. Right now she needs to be 100% focused on helping you heal. She has done nothing to fix herself other than come up with new platitudes to absolve herself of her selfish choices. My wife did the same thing to me fifteen years ago and she just cheated again a few months ago. I did everything she asked me to do the first time and it still wasn't enough. Nothing you can do will never be enough for your wife. Until she learns to validate herself she will not change.

[This message edited by TheWrongOne at 8:18 AM, May 19th (Wednesday)]

Let me get this straight - She's asking you to fill her void from the loss of her AP?

That's how it reads to me [and I read it a few times].

If so - that's some serious mind fuckery of epic proportions.

I think she needs someone to check things out with. A good IC can do that.

Your W may read, but that doesn't mean she understands what the author meant to say - often because the author just isn't clear enough.

What I got out of the 5LL stuff was that we tend to 'talk' in our preferred LL. My top LL was physical touch. My W's was acts of service. When we wanted to express love, I touched my W, and she did something for me, and neither of us felt loved.

After reading the 5LL stuff, we came to realize that we were giving love but not receiving it. We did start 'talking' to each other in the other's preferred LL. More important, we noticed when the other was talking their own LL. I accepted that making dinner was an act of love for my W. She accepted that my touching her was my act of love.

It looks like your W hasn't gotten that far.

Have you helped her? Did you take the self-test? Did you share your results with her? Did you discuss how to proceed?

*****

Everybody hurt by cheating needs to recover, to heal. That's very different from R(econciliation).

You need to heal, and you're the only one who can heal you. Your W can give you support - for example, by talking in your LL - but she can't heal you. You need to heal yourself, and it can't be done passively.

What are you doing to heal yourself?

The metaphor I use for healing is: to process the grief, andger, fear, and shame that came with being betrayed out of one's body. What are you doing with the emotions that your W's betrayal has brought to you?

*****

R is a joint project. You have to want to please each other, IMO. If you can ever see yourself talking in your W's LL, why would you want to R? What keeps you together, if not the prospect of pleasing and being pleased?

[This message edited by sisoon at 2:13 PM, May 19th (Wednesday)]

I hate books like that. Each of us has our own language. Verbal and nonverbal. Unless you are not able you can “read” others’ language and they can read yours. My husband is not prose to compliments but I found out he brags about me to other people all the time. Why do you have to do something that makes you uncomfortable? It’s faking it. Between movies. TV, and every conceivable thing that shows up on a screen we have come to believe that life has to be a bed of roses or else. I told my h this morning that being able to look at the flowers in our yard as we at breakfast is better that 99.99 people on earth can do. Some live with dirt and flies and no safe water and your wife wants you to talk sweet. Jimminy Crickets!