Topic is Sleeping.
SquirrelFace ( member #52946) posted at 3:53 PM on Friday, November 5th, 2021
But now she’s asking if I’m going to try talking to other women. Asked if I would have sex with anyone else. I told her I wasn’t actively perusing anyone. Right now the thought of that makes me sick.
My response would have been: "Not everyone drops their pants for just the tiniest bit of attention from the opposite sex."
She is now saying if I wanted to do that, we should separate and probably get a divorce.
"What? You don't want to live the rest of your marriage with a spouse that's cheated?!? Interesting."
My xW had a similar attitude and response too. It's strangely common. I informed her I had offers of sex from women during our marriage, but never acted on them. Everyone does. Her response was a snotty, "Good for you." Cheaters think they are special and unique. That they are "allowed" because of it. But you better not too. Shitty boundaries. Self-centered attitudes.
There is a theory on revenge affairs that it wouldn't have same effect because the cheaters are expecting it. I think it is the exact opposite. I think they are so self-centered that it would be the *only* thing to truly shake them to their core. Probably be good for them in the long run.
But then I still don't recommend it. Especially with kids. Not that it matters because you proved that most BSs aren't even in that frame of mind.
None of that matters. You can maintain your dignity and still get the same effect later.
She will lose her mind at your first girlfriend after your divorce.
Tigersrule77 ( member #47339) posted at 5:16 PM on Friday, November 5th, 2021
Ark, sorry you are having a hard time.
In response to your question about your WW threatening D: you are not crazy. Your WW's stance is absolutely hypocritical. She cheated, is asking you for forgiveness and R. If YOU were to react to the betrayal by doing the same thing, she will end the M. By no means am I excusing a revenge A (it's not a good idea), I'm just agreeing with you and how you interpreted this.
Your WW may think that this threat will prevent you from doing something. It is possible that she is really worried about you leaving the M, and she doesn't want you to find someone else. I don't know, just a possibility.
WalkingHome ( member #72857) posted at 6:10 PM on Friday, November 5th, 2021
So, she is saying that the proper response to a spouse that has sex with other people is to divorce them?
Great, let's do that.
BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 7:02 PM on Friday, November 5th, 2021
The best way to handle your wife right now is with calm, cold, aloofness. Don't engage in any discussion that has no value to you and that is unlikely to be constructive.
Any twisted, hypocritical, self-serving, or stupid stuff that will come out her mouth (such as "Are you going to have sex with other women?") isn't even worth a verbal response; a glare of disgust is perfectly sufficient. Silence can be a shield or weapon, depending on how you use it.
Never let her goad you into losing your temper or name-calling, even though such a reaction is understandable. At the very least, you will validate the victim mentality that she is cultivating for herself and upset your kids; at worst, she will use these outbursts as cannon fodder when you get divorced.
BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy
I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.
Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 8:20 PM on Friday, November 5th, 2021
Among other things, in the context of marriage, cheaters share certain personality characteristics that place them at a high risk to cheat: selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lacking in empathy for their spouse.
And that's who your posts describe.
In addition, from your description of your wife's family, infidelity is common. Unfortunately, instead of deterring her from cheating - she behaved as if she views infidelity as a given/normal part of marriage/life.
Plus her response to you not wearing your ring is evidence she's currently high risk to cheat again (find another AP) at some point in the future.
She may become a good candidate for R but she has a lot of work to do.
M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 3:22 PM on Saturday, November 6th, 2021
Wikipedia says this about DARVO, which is what your wife is doing:
DARVO is an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender". It is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers. The abuser denies the abuse ever took place, attacks the victim for attempting to hold the abuser accountable, and claims that they, the abuser, are actually the victim in the situation, thus reversing the reality of the victim and offender. This usually involves not just "playing the victim" but also victim blaming.
There is a horrible irony in someone who was studying psychology - albeit failing those studies - using blatant psychological abuse on her victim, and to go so far as to threaten divorce for infidelity after everything that she did.
Your wife is using these very basic tactics to try and control you and the situation, and to avoid accountability and responsibility by repeatedly trying to make you the problem.
ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 7:43 PM on Saturday, November 6th, 2021
She is now saying if I wanted to do that, we should separate and probably get a divorce.
Is it just me, or is that fucked? How can someone do something like that to you, then turn around and say you can’t. Or it won’t work?! Maybe my mind is just so fogged up right now I can’t wrap my head around it. But it blows me away, how hypocritical that is.
Coming from someone who just got caught cheating on you while heavily pregnant and risking your child's health... yeah, my initial response would be... that's really fucked up.
Don't get me wrong, revenge cheating is a very typical THOUGHT EXERCISE among BS's. It's something almost all of us imagine while we're in pain. But very few of us actually go through with it, because in the end, we know we wouldn't respect ourselves if we did. We would become the very thing we hate, a person whose word, whose vow, means nothing. For those of us who are in R, or trying for R, revenge cheating means that we KNOW the anguish, we know the trauma and damage, and we're WILLING to inflict that on a person we claimed to love. And I did say "claimed to love" because if a person knows that pain and is still willing to inflict it on another, that's not any kind of love I would recognize or want.
Occasionally, we do see some BS's whose kneejerk reaction to get even was followed in the heat of the moment and before their better angels could hold sway, and of course, these are the people who are immediately aghast at what they did and usually first in line to say how damaging it was to their internal view. They're still hurt by the betrayal but no long holding the high ground and really, super disappointed in themselves.
Cheating is either always wrong -or- there are some reasons you can cheat. Either no one deserves to become a victim of intimate betrayal -or- there are some people you can cheat on. Personally, I think cheating is always wrong and no one, no matter what they've done, deserves it.. and yeah, I have advised WS's who got cheated on as a matter of revenge to leave because that's not love.
That said, your WW has got a nerve right now to even allow the word "divorce" to slip off her tongue, and my response to that would be to interview the three best divorce lawyers in town. My instinct here is that she's not taking the possibility of losing the marriage seriously enough. She should be making requests, not demands right now.
But there IS a little bit of a bright spot here, which might mean something... she did NOT offer you a hall pass, or to turn a blind eye if something happens at the wedding. This is a manipulation that we see very often, particularly from WW's. The thought is that they can even up the playing field by allowing the BH to go get a little strange. And yeah, they don't like the thought of sharing their BS, but they want to get out of the hot seat more. In your case, your WW would rather stay in the one-down than to try and manipulate you into evening things up. Is it selfish?.. sure. But is it an indicator that you're MORE than a "plan B" option? I'd say "yeah, chances are pretty good". We've seen that "hall pass" manipulation more times than I can count, and here, when the opportunity was perfect, your WW refrained from engaging in it.
One last thing... you really don't know how this is going to pan out yet. I know it's hard, but unless you really want those name-calling sessions read back to you by a court stenographer in front of a judge and a bunch of spectators, you need to stop indulging yourself on the verbal diarrhea. Always speak like the judge is going to hear itand you won't go wrong.
BW: 2004(online EAs),
2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 38 years;
in R with fWH for 7
No one can make you into a liar but you.
RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 8:00 PM on Saturday, November 6th, 2021
These double standards are so confusing. My ExWW too had a similar double standard. To this day I don't know what to make of it.
My ExWW felt strongly that I was going to RA and warned me that she would have zero tolerance for that. A conversation ensued about this double standard. She said she was fully aware that it was a double standard and probably seems quite ridiculous in light of her behavior. She went on to say that if it was I who cheated, instead of her, she would divorce me on the spot. She said if it was I who did to her what she did to me, she would D me on the spot. She advised that she would never try and reconcile with me if I cheated on her. She said that she could never get over the thought of me sleeping with someone else. She then added that she didn't believe that I would ever get over her affair because she couldn't imagine she ever would if the tables were turned. She had a sense of hopelessness for true R, a sense of impending doom, that had a profound affect on her resolve. She pressed on with R, but it was rote in nature, mechanical, like she was doing it because it was expected.
I didn't know what to make of all this. I wondered if she was empathizing too much, disabled from toxic guilt and despair, or was this just a product of selfishness and insincerity, and just going through the moves of R half heartedly hoping to sweep it under the rug.
Part of me liked that she wouldn't tolerate seeing me with another. I thought this was an encouraging response. It always concerns me when wayward spouses offer a hall pass. I mean, if you truly love someone, how the hell can you offer a hall pass and allow them to lay with another?? But on the other hand, it concerned me that she wouldn't offer R if I had been the one to cheat. Made me feel like a chump. Like I cared more about saving the marriage than she does.
And more importantly, it made me think that during her affair, she had to know that if she was to get caught, that it would be the absolute end. She knew this because she would never try and R if I cheated on her. She couldn't imagine trying to R if she was cheated on. This tables turned thought had to cross her mind at some point during the evolution of her affair and she followed through and did it anyway. And then she did it again, and again. Each time knowing if she gets caught, this is the end, but she didn't care.
I felt like a fool. Why am I offering R when she would never offer it to me?
ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 9:39 PM on Saturday, November 6th, 2021
I agree with BluerThanBlue wholeheartedly.
Answering with cynicism will lead you nowhere helpful for you. The goal is to heal and engaging in that sort of conversation won’t help you.
Think about your goal and what you need to do to achieve it
I plan on living forever. So far so good
DictumVeritas ( member #74087) posted at 7:26 AM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021
She would have divorced you if she caught you cheating. You need to enforce her standards for the same. If you don't she will no longer respect you and without respect there is no love and no marriage and most likely cheating on her part again because she already got away with it or she will eventually divorce you in favor of a man willing to enforce her standards.
Your life is but a flicker to the cosmos and only the brightest flickers are recorded by history for good or bad. Most of us just want to live our lives without being interfered with.
Marz ( member #60895) posted at 9:26 AM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021
Save yourself and let her go.
Marz ( member #60895) posted at 9:27 AM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021
[This message edited by Marz at 9:27 AM, Sunday, November 7th]
DjDjani ( member #69137) posted at 10:11 AM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021
Hello,how are you doing? Let me tell you something. When your wife cheats on you when you are trying to make a baby,and goes pregnant to OM for him to fuck her whith your baby in her stomack,and when your wife is so evil that she would make you raise another mens child, you have only one solution for that situation. Divorce. Enything elce is doom.
Ark04l (original poster member #79489) posted at 2:22 PM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021
Went to a wedding on Friday.. that was rough. One of my best friends got married, and it was hard for me to sit there and watch the wedding. My wife was going to originally go, but for obvious reasons I told her she couldn’t.
I always get shit for keeping my ring off, and not "communicating" with her while I’m with my friends or family. She tells me how being alone is more than she can take while I’m out having "fun". Even though I’m living in a silent hell. And that being home alone with the baby, is way too much for her. Even though I do my best given what’s happens.
She went to tell her two best friends yesterday what happened. She after told me she wanted to talk. Almost immediately it became hostile. Since she does not have social media right now, she asked to see her friends phone to view my profile. And saw I started following other girls, and liking their pics. She referred to these girls as "sluts" oh the irony there. Told me she wanted her phone unlocked to be able to download apps. (Her phone is locked preventing her from downloading social media apps) this was one of my requirements of staying for the time being. As she used socialmedia as a tool to cheat.
She took pictures of her friends phone if the girls I was following and pictures I liked. Now, I told her I did nothing wrong. That was a knee jerk reaction on my part to see how I felt. But I did not feel bad for doing that. I haven’t cheated, or had sex with anyone else. So if I lift the blocked apps on your phone, it was grounds for immediate divorce.
After some conversation she said she didn’t want to divorce. But she now couldn’t trust me, because without my ring. And liking other girls pictures, I was trying to appear single. Which is not my case at all. The group of friends I’m around know exactly what’s going on and wouldn’t put me in that type of environment. And they all are in happy relationships as well.
I did however delete my Social media for now. I have been spending way too much time on it. I agree it’s not healthy to use that as a escape for the time being.
I called her friends to confirm that she told them everything. She did. They did leave out the part of snooping on my social media. But said she seemed genuinely remorseful. They have known her since she was 6. And they didn’t see the friend they once knew. She seemed broken, but sorry.
I told them I was just unsure. How could they ever trust her again? How could I? They obviously will way before I will. They are already telling her they are there for her, and love her. Just like her family is..
Am I the only one who wouldn’t be so nice with a buddy or realative if they did this? I would not be telling them how it’s all going to be ok. But I would do that for the BS. Just blows my mind.
So I’m pretty angry and upset after all of this. How she tried Turing the tables on me. Making me feel like I did something wrong.
Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 2:48 PM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021
You're the only one who can stop it. The more you put up with it, the more she will do this. This is NOT remorse. This is someone trying to spin the situation, gain her friends’ sympathy and slowly start to turn the narrative into you as the bad guy. This is the behavior of a manipulator and abuser.
"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."
BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19
This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 3:52 PM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021
She is surrounded by people that are condoning cheating.
That's not an environment you can recover or reconcile in.
[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 3:52 PM, Sunday, November 7th]
Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.
nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 3:56 PM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021
I agree with Thumos.
People who haven't dealt with infidelity don't know the difference between regret and remorse. Regret is her focusing on what she lost and the consequences she's facing like being unable to use social media. She is very regretful. Remorse is a focus on you, your pain, and what you're going through as well as a willingness to help and give you what you need to heal together. She doesn't give one flying fuck about that. She's too busy checking up on you and complaining/questioning your fidelity. She's too busy asking the question of how this will affect her and making sure she won't become the chump of a revenge affair. She's too focused on NOT experiencing more fallout from this such as D. But if it is going to happen, she will be damn sure that she's not entirely to blame hence bringing others into it by having them help her reveal you as a cheater too. Not one single ounce of remorse.
[This message edited by nekonamida at 3:57 PM, Sunday, November 7th]
longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 4:12 PM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021
Your last post reads like a couple bickering about a clamp down on a wife who got caught spending $500 on a slots app. Your wife is not only spoiled and self entitled, she is so self absorbed she is delusional. She just doesn’t see the damage. And can there be any doubt her support system are all taking the " you poor thing" attitude. Do they not get that she would still be at it today if she hadn’t been caught?
Maybe I was in LE too long, but your wife is starting to look like an antisocial personality. It’s all about them, all the time. They are fully cognizant of the rules, but they are indifferent to them. And they see no difference in degree between liking a girls photo and fucking a guy for 11 months.
When caught, these people spout every canned statement known to man and try every trick in the book to show they are sooooooo sorry. The only thing left so far she has not yet found "the Lord" but I expect that’s coming. But that fake ness does not last long, as you are seeing. Pretty soon they expect the world to move on and they can get back to focusing on their needs and whims and desires and addictions.
And of course they are the greatest hypocrites. Doing something hurtful to another they are fine with. But if someone crosses the line with them, they are consumed with self righteous fury.
None of us can predict the future, but you should expect a full on campaign of explanation - not explication- which will come down to you being the primary reason she did this.
For the life of me, I don’t see why you are putting yourself through this. Do you see this situation as fixable? Why?
Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 5:23 PM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021
It is good not to make a hasty decision for D or to offer R and see if WW might be able to do the hard, consistent effort it will take. If you think R might be possible, I think you should consider telling your wife to buy the book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from your Affair". Maybe also suggest another book you think looks good from the healing library here, maybe After the Affair or Not Just Friends.
Some people think that the Wayward spouse should just figure everything out by themselves. But I believe it is very clear that they need strong guidance to understand the depth of Destruction they've caused and how to start reflecting on themselves and behaving differently toward you. You directing her to read these books isn't giving in in any way . It's more like a test . These books will give time-tested guidance to her. It's up to her to read them, absorb them and then act. She still has to take the lead but you telling her she should order these ASAP will give you a sense of if she has the energy to try to fix this. Without sound guidance, she could be just talking to friends hoping that what advice they offer for is what she needs to do.
I am not pushing you to offer R. I think you are in a very difficult situation but if your wife learns exactly the Havoc she has wrought, I believe it will help even if you end up in divorce. You will still have to co-parent and her understanding what she did Will make that process easier too.
medieval ( new member #78429) posted at 10:47 PM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021
Having a child is one of those key moments in any couples life where you come together in an atmosphere of love and mutual support. For the majority of couples it strengthens the relationship and brings them closer to together. This is the way it is "supposed" to work. Her actions in conducting an affair during this time have negated all of this and it's telling in your comments and the very huge omission I see in what you post here.
You never mention your new born child and the comments you make about your wife saying how hard it is to be at home with the baby reinforce this. You are a new father yet for all intents it's like the child doesn't exist except as an adjunct to your wife. It's almost as if you have already divorced yourself from the child.
It does seem that you are on the road to D over R but I'm interested in what your view of the new baby you have is and where it comes into play here. Have you spent any time at all with the child (and your daughter) or are you largely absent from their lives right now?
Topic is Sleeping.