SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I hope she has lined up a good therapist. I think she is really going to need one.

Dead M,

I have read your story from your first post and can understand what you are experiencing.

However, you have one thing that the vast majority of BS's on this site do not and that is a remorseful wife. She came clean on her own. She has owned her actions. She has been pro-active and willing to do what needs to be done to try and reconcile.

Just a quick read through a sample of the stories here and you will see just how rare that is.

Not trying to excuse her in any way for what she did.

It may be my triggers responding to this, but...

1) When I read 'drinking', alarm bells go off in my head. Add to that his sob story about his wife, and it makes me think he took advantage of her. I might be wrong of course, but it really sounds that way. For all she knew, there might have been a drug involved in her drink. That might or might not be the case, but the drinking sounds VERY suspicious to me. And his prior history of cheating on his wife. I hate this word, but... if what happened does count as 'rape', there are a lot of times when the survivor will blame herself and even convince herself that she asked for it or wanted it or led him on. I know. I've been there.

2. She's been remorseful. What happened hurts you, and that is normal and completely understandable. The hurt will not go away overnight. You need support and love from your cherished people. I think you might have a chance to reconcile with her, because she's trying to do everything to help you heal. Everything. Telling you upfront without you asking. Telling you all details. Accepting whatever choices you might make. Voluntarily taking a polygraph. Going to therapy. Owning her stuff to everyone. As a WS she sounds like she's doing a helluva lot.

3. Don't go for the revenge affair. Don't. Don't lower yourself to those standards, and don't hurt her when in a few weeks, you might have a lot more compassion for her that you feel now. You were hurt, and you have a right to feel that hurt, anger, betrayal, agony, disappointment, grief, humiliation, and whatever else you might feel. If you have an RA out of anger, it will hurt you later.

I am a BSO in my current relationship. In a past relationship, my XAWBF was VERY abusive (not to mention unfaithful). I mean, choked me til I threw up, slapped my face, demanded money, tried to pick up another girl at work, took my car to drive around ANOTHER girl, did who-knows-what in MY car, tried to get her from her boyfriend... Abusive and a cheater. After nine months of this, I thought I wanted to feel good again. Wanted to feel like I could have just ONE good sexual experience. Did it. Regretted it ever since. Why? Because I was doing something very very shitty, even if it was to someone who didn't deserve me at my best. And because now I face helping my WSO (yes, even though he's wayward) know that just cuz we have a rough patch doesn't mean I'm gonna go and cheat on him. Not ever. But I'll have to remind him of that for the rest of our relationship, even if it's the rest of our lives.

Anyway... You're doing a helluva lot too, posting here, communicating with your WS, and laying out clear steps she needs to take. There's more to do, but you can do it. Stay strong, Dead M, and take good care of yourself.

Just from reading this thread, it seems to me your WW is worth the R effort. At the very least, keep doing what you need to do with the poly, tests, therapy, etc. while you take more time to decide. Give it at least three months, a year is even better. As devastating as an affair can be, your WW did the right thing in telling you and she is consistent with her remorse as well as actions. You are also doing well with basically doing the 180 for yourself and setting strict rules/boundaries that will help you heal. Had you ever read the Healing Library or the 180? If not, WOW. You have amazing instincts for what to do/not do if your spouse cheats. Keep us posted on how it's going and best of luck to you.

we socialize with him and his wife, so her conduct will probably be known in our social circle very soon

No it won't. That is a hippa violation. He should not even tell his wife. You have two very seperate and distinct relationships, one is social and one is medical. Never the two shall meet.

A few questions:

She mentioned she did it out of lonliness. Why was she lonely?! I don't get that, she was away on a business trip and the two of you supposedly had a good marriage. Lonliness takes long periods of neglect to develop, not a few nights away.

My other question is when you said her mom had to "finish the phone call" because she was so upset. She gave you a lot of intimate details in that phone call, I really hope her mom wasn't sitting there with her when this discussion was taking place. It's one thing if she freaked out, ran to mom and threw her the phone, but make sure mom isn't listening in on these extremely personal conversations.

Lastly, you mention her not leaving your sight, being alone, etc. I know she has to earn your trust back but you do realize there will soon come a time when you are going to have to give up trying to control her and take the risk to trust and open your heart again or you don't stand a chance.

[This message edited by positively4thst at 8:21 PM, August 3rd (Wednesday)]

He should not even tell his wife.

Nope....you should. He took advantage of you, he is a predator....bet your wife wasnt the first either. Another pair of eyes watching will help ensure NC between APs stays in place...You can bet that he's gonna reach out to your wife...sometime in the future....count on it. She has a right to know - hell, revenge works for me....i wouldnt let this go....

You have two very seperate and distinct relationships, one is social and one is medical.

And another one, bro....find another Dr....ya'll dont need to be socializing with them either....i couldnt do it, bro.....

At a year out from DDay, my FWW damn sure wouldnt want to socialize with her OM, either.....she'd get dry heaves just thinkin' about what she had done to me, herself and our marriage...damn sure didnt wanna see him....You may need to rethink this....tea and crumpets at the country club with OM and his wife at the same table aint gonna help your R...at all.....

Keep us posted, bro...

Bufffalo

[This message edited by bufffalo at 6:49 PM, August 3rd (Wednesday)]

Buffalo,

I think you misunderstood. We are not talking about OM, we are talking about their family physician whom WW is going to for STD testing. They are also friends and hang out in a social circle. He thinks because she is seeing doctor to be tested, it will soon be all over their social network. Won't happen, that is why I say two seperate and distinct relationships. And I do think the doctors are sensitive and don't look at this as gossip. They look at it as life and are concerned about the effect on their patient's health and well being.

Edie, you misunderstand. SHE is the one talking about punishment, not me. If I have to act as her guardian, I will divorce her.

Dead M:

Perhaps its just me, but have you talked to your wife to see if there is more to the story?

I find an emotional outbreak infront of coworkers concerning then a request to be taken to his room.

Fuzzy details and the waking up with him on top.

the sob story to evoke a womans sympathy.

then her self destructive behavior and instability afterwards.

I think you misunderstood.

Yep...i did. Ill delete it if you think it will avoid some confusion later.... my apologies.....

Bufffalo

Welcome Brother. Sorry you have found our little sanctuary but glad you did.

I'm glad you are letting things settle before you make any decisions. There is no hurry. Even if this is a deal breaker for you, taking your time is the right thing to do.

I decided to reconcile with my wife due to her actions. Your wife is doing many of the same actions that mine displayed. In case you were not aware, most of the betrayed spouses on this site would love to see 1/10th of the actions your wife is doing. I know it is not any consolation or pat on the back for doing them, but it does go a long way in expressing true remorse and regret.

At three plus years out, I am glad that I made the decision to attempt to reconcile. I promise you there were days that I wanted to completely abandon the idea and thought it would be impossible to do so but through each obstacle we faced, I discovered it was the right thing to do. Again, my wife's actions were the main contributing factor in my decision.

You may think that I am pro-marriage but in reality, I am not. I am pro survival for everyone to make their best decision. In some cases, the decision was not their's to make which makes it even more difficult. At least you have the opportunity to weigh out the options and truly decide what you want and need.

Neither decision will be easier. There will be pain no matter what your decision will be. Allowing yourself time helps you get over the shock and not to act in spite or anger. I have never been a good decision maker when my emotions are so raw. I have many regrets on my decisions when made in haste based on negative feelings.

For now, take care of yourself. Eat. Sleep.

Drink plenty of water. Exercise.

Buffalo-

No worries, it's all good!

This is the most quoted sentence in this thread - here it goes again:

but if she f**ked him simply because she wanted to, then the marriage is over, for good.

What do you mean by this? Of course she wanted to do it (unless it was a rape date which so far it doesn't seem like it).

I think all (or the great majority) of WS want to f**k whomever they have the affair. There are other reasons but wanting to do it sure is one of them.

Sorry one other discrepancy you may wish to clarify:

It was said that

She felt sorry for him and they cuddled without taking their clothes off.

Followed by:

She claims that he was in her before she really knew what was happening

There is something missing between these two statements/ actions.

It is a big leap from laying fully clothed to ending up with a penis in the vagina.

Think about the effort involved to undress to enable intercourse.

It would be a big effort for the OM to undress your WW, and would not go undetected unless she was totally unconscious, but the act would still likely wake her up..

It would be a bit quicker if your WW actively undressed herself which would then mean she was a willing participant and did so with the expectation of some sort of sexual activity..

So there might be a bit of panicked damage control. Eg in her mind she does not want to hurt you more by admitting to a less than intercourse intentions.

Remember that OM sounds like a major sexual predator and I would still strongly recommend you see if R is possible with your WW.

Imagine this possible scenario (assuming your WW is truthful in not intending on intercourse sex):

Your alcohol affected WW was convinced by OM to undress simply for non intercourse heavy feeling/ mutual masturbation (still very bad I know), but then he just quickly mounts her so she let's him finish.

Afterwards the guilt and panic sets in over what she has done.

I say this to get you to prepare for the possibility that she may have went in naively thinking no actual intercourse would happen. Remember some people consider intercourse to happen before it is cheating (eg: less is not cheating)

How Does your WW define cheating?

Would your WW have been ok if you went into another woman's hotel room at 1am even though your are not planning on sex? I doubt it.

PR

Phoenix, these discrepancies and the actual course of events are what I think about most. I know her mind pretty well and how it works, and I feel that she recently has been trying to deal with self-esteem issues, regarding her job. She has always been a hard-charger, but with the economy so bad, her earnings have tanked badly, and she takes this as a sign of failure. This whole Philly trip was a major deal for her professionally, and it didn't turn out as good as she had hoped. This doesn't mean that I am sticking up for her, but that I do understand that there are other factors involved. She is emphatic that neither of them undressed, but that penetration WAS permitted, although unwanted. I don't know what that means any more than you do. She told her sister that during the act, she felt nothing, and after she felt dirty and guilty, which is why she immediately checked out and went to another hotel.

I have decided to go home next Tuesday, to begin the process of getting all of the information I will need to make a decision about either R or D. I told her that for the time being she is to stay at her mom's house and I will come over there when I'm ready to see her, in person.

Sorry, double post

[This message edited by Dead M at 12:52 AM, August 4th (Thursday)]

Dead M,

I can hear some empathy which is a good thing in your situation.

The question may not be "if" she wanted to but "why" she wanted to.

The events as told raise everyone’s radar here. He needed help to his room? That is the same scenario of a serial killer.

What possible reason would she want to help him get there? He is a grown man...he leaned on her while they walked down the hall? This in itself makes little sense.

You also said he was a few years older than you…mid thirties/forties? I could see her helping a senior citizen to their room but not a man of his age. He simply would not need the help. It would make more sense if he was helping her if they drank as much as the story reveals.

Also what possible story could he tell her at the bar that could cause such an emotional attachment to go to the room? As a professional she knows how to detach and separate her work from her personal life.

Was there more attraction or only the desire to be a good Samaritan? I know she has made herself a good Samaritan but it doesn't really fit into reality.

Brother you have the best possibility of R that I have ever seen. The hurtles she has given you if you desire R are relatively short and in between compared to most of us here.

That does not dismiss the greatness of the offense nor the overwhelming pain you are going through. We really feel for you because everyone here knows.

[This message edited by UnsettledOne at 1:30 AM, August 4th (Thursday)]

Good luck.

I hope there is no new information to find out. My gut feeling is not.

I also hope your fact finding also leads you to R.

Another thing though, if she is very depressed and panicked over losing you and especially given her statements that you mean more to her than life, you should tread carefully.

I know I was nearly suicidal after being scammed and betrayed by my ex, so be careful with what you say to your WW if it sounds like she could be potentially suicidal.

For example, if she says she loves you more than life, it could be intentionally or even unintentionally manipulative or it could also indicate suicidal tendencies / despair.

So saying "prove it" in response might not be the best reply, because what if she irrationally tries to show proof by a suicide attempt?

It could happen, and I doubt you would want that despite what has happened.

Despair can be dangerous and unpredictable.

Again good luck.

PR

[This message edited by PhoenixReborn at 1:25 AM, August 4th (Thursday)]

Phoenix, to be honest , when I said that I was feeling very bitter, and meant for her to prove her love, not to end her life. I would never , in thought , word, or deed, want any harm to come to her, in any way. I know that it probably makes no sense , but a part of me loves her very dearly, even now.