SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sorry, Stronger, I totally forgot that part. I ALWAYS hold out hope that the DNA comes out negative, for every member who posts here.

And can Santa add me to that list? I'd like the same gift.

Do you hear that, OW? Fuck off.

No problem Want2 - I always appreciate your opinions and advice. I will be so happy for you when the adoption is finalized.

Here's to a drama free 2014. Okay maybe I'm aiming too high...at least a year of less drama and very little OW interaction.

Cheers to that, stronger! I will be happy to put this year behind me and wish for a better 2014.

Having a bit of a meltdown, realizing OC is due in 24 days. I just realized that OC has the same due date that my son had, except that he ended up being very premature. Same due date.

It's all too, too surreal. Processing my H having a baby with another woman, while still processing the affair itself. That's not even addressing the OTHER infidelities that happened during the A period.

Today I was just thinking about all of it - all of it just crashed down on me. I feel like I married a monster. How did I not see all of this when it was happening?? His ability to compartmentalize. He still does it. He just doesn't think about it.

Last night, after I pushed him to, he basically admitted that he would like to have some contact with OC. He doesn't seem to think that seeing OW will be any kind of problem for him at all. I said, I don't think I can do that. He was sad and he said, 'so you're giving me an ultimatum?'

I don't even know which direction is up.

I'm so sorry, plainpain. These thoughts are honestly part of R. I still have them once in a great while. I had one last night arguing with my brother over why Arnold Swarz(whatever) is a POS, and then I realized I was describing my FWH.

I am here, feel free to pm me if you need someone to talk to.

(((hugs)))

*hugs* plainpain

I also still have bad days, especially this past week. After H and OW agreed to a CS amount and H didn't proceed with the rest of the testimony and evidence, the old feelings of resentment, anger, confusion and depression reared their ugly heads.

I'm fighting so hard not to give in to those feelings and let them affect my mood.

I hope your H realizes that the issue isn't whether seeing OW will be a "problem" for him (I don't know if he means that he won't want to cheat again or he thinks she won't bother him at all), but to avoid further hurting you. The odds are high that if there is contact, OW will try to use that to her advantage~ and that usually means that she wants you left in the dust.

Definitely question paternity though. We're pulling for you *hugs*

I hope your H realizes that the issue isn't whether seeing OW will be a "problem" for him (I don't know if he means that he won't want to cheat again or he thinks she won't bother him at all), but to avoid further hurting you. The odds are high that if there is contact, OW will try to use that to her advantage~ and that usually means that she wants you left in the dust.

I think he only means it in terms of, 'I won't want to have sex with her again'. He said to me, after telling me that he would maybe like to have contact with OC, 'OW has no power here anymore', and I said to him, 'She has more power than ever. She has the power to call you up at 2:00 and say, OC is sick, you have to come. Or, I'm out of money and I have no more milk and OC is screaming. What are you going to do? Say no to her, or leave our bed and go to rescue her?' Anyway, he kind of looked at me like he hadn't thought about that before.

I don't think it really enters his mind to think of it in terms of how to reduce pain for me. That is not his priority, and that is kind of where my terror lies. His loyalty is not to me - it is to doing 'the right thing'. I may say that doing the right thing means devoting yourself to your wife and your children, FORSAKING ALL OTHERS. But he hates, hates to be the 'bad guy'. His ability to walk away and leave her with no KISA is going to be the test for me of whether I can actually do this. So I guess it is kind of an ultimatum.

And all of it has to wait for a paternity test, anyway, so in the end he always says, 'You don't even know it's my child'.

I was thinking of going off my anti-depressants, just so I can make all these decisions in the fullness of my own mind and feelings. I don't know if that's a good idea or a bad idea.

Thank you for your support. I've never felt so alone, and it helps so much to know others have walked through this and survived.

Also, plainpain, I just read your post in general.

My FWH was 36 during the A. OW was 20. A YOUNG 20. The wide eyed, giggley, "you're the best ever, Mr. help, you're so COOL!" 20 year old.

I was 24 during FWH's A. My co-workers have always joked that I was "2_ (whatever age) going on 50", because I'm serious and hard-nosed, and OW was an overgrown 14 year old.

When she saw FWH, she saw the greatest man who ever walked.

When I looked at FWH, I saw FWH. And at the time of the A, my opinion of FWH wasn't all that high.

Honestly, I believe this is the root of most of the As I have known of. FWH got the ego boost because some ditzy, idiot 20 year old was over-the-moon about him, told him how under appreciated he was, how awful I was, etc. OW got an ego boost because an older many who was above her in class was choosing time with her over time with his own family.

It had nothing to do with skin, or youth, or even looks (want to see pictures of my FWH's OW?). It was about the ego stroking.

In fact, when I kicked FWH out, he went to live with OW. He than began sleeping with his former employee, who was 19, and even MORE over-the-moon over him than OW1 was. The 19 yer old weighed over 300lbs, and I don't even need to describe to you her body type. My FWH is a very handsome man. I have recently found out that one of my own "friends" falls all over herself in his presence. But, these OW stroked his ego in a way that I do not.

After R, my FWH saw a, IC extensively. One of the biggest issues he had to work through (which I wasn't even aware existed in his relationship) was the unknown (to me) fact that FWH thought I was "better" than him, and somehow projected that attitude onto me, and got it in his heard that I, too, considered myself "better" than him. It is my opinion that this dynamic exists in a fair portion of affairs, that there is something broken in the WS, under the surface, that the BS may not even be aware of.

Anyhow, that turned into quite the ramble. It's not our skin. It's not our thighs, or our ass, our our breasts. It's that when we look at our spouses, we see humans, where these young OWs see some sort of demigod.

(This is likely generalizing, but I see many, many parallels between your H's OW and my H's OW).

plain~ Sounds like your H might still be in The Fog stage...maybe not fully realizing that he's been the "bad guy" in your marriage, that he could be your KISA instead of OW's.

Want2~ you are so right about the ego-stroking. I'm pretty certain that OW in my case never fawned over my H....she's one of those man-basher types who consequently enjoys playing the field. She likes to use people and she always loved feeling like a social butterfly...definitely immature, as you mentioned. After several months, H realized she wasn't even exclusive to the A with him. As for my H~ he, at the time, got some pleasure out of the fact that someone other than me wanted him...not realizing that she didn't truly want him.

Want2Help, yes, that sounds so very much like our story. I never thought I was better than my H, although I do admit that I did always feel like I had firmer boundaries and higher morals. Those are choices, not a mark of superiority.

Sparkle, this is the first time I am feeling like maybe my H is going back into the fog. We're miles and miles away from OW, so I know there's nothing there - but he's been saying things lately that sound so 'wayward'. It's giving me very cold feet. I am afraid that we're going backwards.

My WH's OW is also an immature now 21 yo who strokes the crap out of his ego. You should see the things she said to him, it was crazy! How she could think Any of those things were true of a man who's cheating on his wife, had no job at the time. It wasn't real it was some fantasy. And instead of being a better man, he chose the easy route of some dumb girl that would make him feel like he was even though he wasn't.

Sooo long story short I kicked my WH out of the house a couple weeks ago. He is now staying with OW for the time being, but says he wants to get his own apartment when he can afford it. Right now he just sees the kids at the house from time to time. They don't know anything about OW "dating" their dad- though they do know her as she used to babysit them. OW is pregnant, due in June. So I'm wondering when and how do I tell COM that they're going to have a half-sibling? We have a DD who is 14... she will obviously know enough to figure out her Dad cheated on me... DS is a toddler so at this point I'm not so much worried about telling him, there will have to be a weird conversation bout this down the road... I have barely spoken to WH about it but he wants to get his own place, introduce OW to COM as his girlfriend, and then tell them. Even if I did believe WH was going to get his own place (he's horrible with $ and pretty much has none) by the time that happens and he wants to introduce OW as his "girlfriend" she will be noticably pregnant..

((prowoman)) Oh my, I can't imagine. I think that's why I didn't kick my H out at the very beginning - I knew he would run to OW, and there would be no coming back from that for me. I didn't want to lose our marriage like that, like she had anything at all to do with what happened to us.

So, I probably am in no position to say this, but I wonder if perhaps telling your 14 year-old the truth NOW might be a good thing? If he is under some delusion that there aren't going to be very, very severe consequences for him and for his children, maybe it's best to burst that bubble now? It might help to get his head out of his ass.

The biggest barrier that we have been having to reconciliation is my fiance's other child.

I feel myself in a terrible situtation. The OW is his ex wife. They already had a child before they divorced and she was busily jerking him around over his daughter constantly. He was already going over to visit.

He cheated, she got pregnant and now we have a little boy, nearing 2 years old.

So he goes over to visit. And he wants me to be ok with him staying overnight there and trust him. He says he is there for the kids, his ex annoys him silly. He justifies the overnights on the basis it is a 3 hour trip across town (which it is by the time you get through traffic) and the kids cry when he needs to leave.

He says if he wanted to have sex with her, he could during the day while he is there, so why are the overnights hurting me so much.

To his credit over this past weekend, he did come back home. He was upset and angry when he got back and wouldn't talk. We ended up in a big fight yesterday and are not currently talking. The situation creates loads of drama and trauma and his ex wife loves it and is activily trying to get him back.

I am reaching limits.

It's just my experience. I hate all of it and the only resolution that I would even feel a bit comfortable with is for him to get partial custody so he can bring them HERE. He said he is not ready to fight it out yet with his ex, because he himself is so worn down.

I feel for him, but I think he caused the mess. It's hard to properly validate him when he isn't resolving things for so long.

((Kalliopeia)). I don't know if this just sounds really strange because it's not my life - and God knows I must look like I'm walking into a pile of shit constantly - but just as an objective observer... He was married to OW. He has two children with OW. He cheated on you with OW. They have children together who want to have a 'family', and she is an ex-wife/OW in need of validation who certainly does not want to be second string.

If he hadn't been married to her, and they didn't have a child together, and she was just a random OW, is there any way on this planet that you would think having a sleepover would be defensible??

She is the OW!

No, no, no.

My parents divorced, and they still had sex sometimes after. When my dad met his now-wife, my mom was still trying to get him to spend the night. She was very, very hurt - like, RAGE hurt - when he said he wouldn't betray his new girlfriend with her. She honestly thought she had 'rights' to him. She'd still sleep with him, 27 years later, just to have something over his new wife, even though their divorce was final before he ever met her.

Plainpain, that ex wife/OW is highly manipulative. He knows she is. He comes back madder than heck everytime he visits there. She has sole custody. She has a really rich family and he is dreading taking them on.

There is no way any of it is *really* defensible to me. He is having to relearn his thought processes. He gets over there, he misses his daughter badly. She is nearly 11 years old now and begs.

I have expressed my discomfort and I asked for alternatives to it and told him flat out that I shouldn't even be being put in the position of asking. So this time he didn't stay.

On my side, ex/OW is really really a PIA person. Picture a rubber monkey bouncing off walls, gaslightig, constantly lying, and playing head games whie giggling and sneering.

I just remembered today about this thread, so I am reading the whole thing now. So many of the people who have posted here in the last 2 years are strong. I am amazed.

It all sounds like a total nightmare, Kalliopeia. I can't even imagine how hard that must be on your R. The more I read others in this situation, the more I think there is no way on earth I can live with a crazy OW in my life. The drama and the pain just don't seem to end. Why do so many men say they hate drama, but then choose to have affairs and procreate with the craziest people they can possibly find? Blah.

well you tagged it: he says he hates drama. I tell him drama doesn't begin with the person who is upset, it begins with choices like betrayal.

In order for him ( us) to even begin a custody effort, we will need to put down serious cash. He doesn't have that kind of money. I have it, but he refuses atm to accept the help from me. Honestly, I also have some resentment and maybe I need to work through that.

We have kind of agreed to re-evaluate action on this in May. I think he needs time to get the will to move towards it. He says he is scared the kids will be directly drawn in. Of course they will. The children are ex/OW means of controlling him.

plainpain,

I am just saying lots of prayers for you and sending you a GIANT hug. Hopefully she really was a great big HO, HO, HO... and the baby is not his.

I told WH that right now I need everyone out of our marriage boat. This includes OW and OC. I had a dream last night that WH left me for OW and that OC was ugly. Crazt, crazy dream. It just put my fears front and center. I need to know that I am more important than everyone else for a while.

Prowoman,

If you decide to tell COM about OC my advise would be to do it together with a therapist or counselor if possible. My WH told DD10 without me and he didn't do a very good job. She was completely confused. He tried to tell her it would be a good thing and OC might be nice in an attempt to mkae her feel better. This just left her thinking he had another family. I have spent many hours explaining, answering questions, and just reassuring her that she is loved by me and WH. If you tell them be prepared for lots of questions. A few examples are

So did dad have sex with another woman? So is a woman like OW a ho?..followed by..what is a ho?

Is OW my stepmother?

Will I have to see OW or OC?

How old is OC/is it a girl or a boy?

The other day I asked if she would have preferred not to have been told. She said no as that would be lieing and we tell her not lie. It also let her know why I was so mad at daddy.

It is a hard road to walk but I want her to know that I won't lie to her and she can talk to me about anything. At first she was upset, creid a lot and angry. When I see her start to go down these paths I make her talk to me or write me a letter. She can say anything she wants in these letters no matter how hurtful or painful to read. I just want her to be honest about her feeling and work through them in a positive way.

Kalliopea,

If you are not ok with him spending the night he should not. I am sure his children miss him, but a huge part of that is the blurred lines. If he is sPending the night he is sending them mixed messages about him and his exW relationship. The fact that they had a babyy after breaking up shows they have not set up very good boundaries and is just confusing for kids. I hope things get better.

Kalliopeia~ It is possible to get custody/visitation pro se (without legal representation)... so far there have only been two times that my H has used an attorney, and at the original custody hearing in 2005, H was able to get shared legal custody and 2 overnight visits per week after a 3 month phase-in period. Unless your H has a very negative record, he stands a good chance at getting unsupervised visitation rights.

I wouldn't be okay with the overnight stays at XW/OW's place either....the 11 year old especially might be holding out hope that each time her Dad stays it means her parents are "together" again. So it's not only disrespectful to you, but confusing to the kids.

Update: the CS will be going to the Superior Court...the judge didn't even drop it to $320, the basic amount is listed at $335. Knowing that her first husband (who only recently had another daughter) only paid about $300 a month, I am not willing to accept the idea that my husband is supposed to pay her MORE than either of her husbands. If that means we have to keep fighting the amount, then so be it.

@plainpain I seriously delayed taking any drastic action with my husband following his affair. I guess I did what everyone here calls trying to love him back into the marriage. We would have a few fights here and there about OW but mostly it was all rugswept. He Never told me the truth about anything, and I'm sure he never will. But I was so unhappy in our marriage. It was me trying to pretend I wasn't miserable, ignoring him going behind my back and continuing talking to the OW at times / full blown A at times. We still had other issues in our marriage as well and we just pretended all was normal with a few times stuff came bubbling up and we'd get in a fight.... Then he got OW pregnant. And I felt like I could've stopped this shit. I think OW probably got scared shitless after I didn't leave him / he didn't leave me following DDay and resorted to trying to get knocked up to keep him around. I finally just decided I'd rather she have to support him and deal with his BS than me. But he was never remorseful or doing anywhere near the bare minimum Everyone deserves in a relationship.

Thank you wonderful people for the advice on speaking with my DD. I don't want to do any damage to our relationship because of what her dad has caused. It's so hard because my children are SO close with my WH and in all honesty (besides financially, and his tryst with their babysitter) he has always been an amazing father to our COM. And because of my work schedule he is like a SAHD in many ways. It kills me to have "taken him away" from them. But anyways I will see if my IC will help me with the conversation with my DD and sooner rather than later. I don't want her losing any more faith in her parents than she already has. I don't want her to feel lied to or "treated like a baby" or in the dark. There's already so much crap in her head because of the seperation.

Sending all you that have to deal with OW and OC so much strength. The holidays are hard! And I'm not even close to where you all are yet.