SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

He is terrible at boundries. Obviously :(

As time goes on, he is properly developing them, but the pace is very slow. He is someone who has a lot of intelligence, but lacks "street smarts".

His ex has manipulated the heck out of him. He told me he feels he painted himself into a corner by being such a pushover. He has a lot of resentment, anger, and can be extremely passive agressive ( stubborn) and gets his back up badly if he feels he is being pushed into something. It's a huge problem in reconciling.

I will talk to him about pro se. I don't think we can talk anytime soon about it, because we just had a load of conflict over it. He has pretty much shut down for the time being. Later, once he calms ( week, I don't know) he will be easier to have discussions with.

And no, I don't like it that way. The harder I push, the more resistence I get.

Kalliopeia, y first advice is to get into MC, ASAP. My FWH used to "shut down" like yours, particularly regarding the stepkids and their manipulating mother. It used to make me so angry, I would lash out (tell him to please remove his testicles from her purse), which made it worse. He needs to learn how to communicate.

Next, NO, no overnights, what the hell.

As far as kicking out the WS, I did immediately after Dday. I caught him with her, and I told him to never come home. I bagged his shit up and dumped it off at work.

Now, OW's conception date is right around that time, but FWH CLAIMS that they did not have sex for around a week after I confronted them and told her he had just slept with me the NIGHT before. However, I do not know if I believe this, I think it is much more likely that OW purposely got pregnant directly after this, since OW told me she thought if got pregnant FWH would leave me "for good".

So, it's possible that him staying with her led to her becoming pregnant. However, it also led to two months of misery for my FWH. Staying with OW meant sleeping in a camper, without AC, in the summer months (instead of our 4 bedroom house). Evidently she "nagged" him constantly (I may be a lot of things, but a NAG is not one of them, fWH is much more then nag than I am in our marriage).

FWH dumped OW, asked for another chance, and came home, all on his own. The fog was LIFTED. There was no "what if", no romanticizing his A with her. By the time the A was through, he seemed thoroughly disgusted by her.

She did not tell him she was pregnant until she was 4 months along (she claimed to have just found out), so they were never together *knowingly* during her pregnancy. She received no belly rubs, no positive reinforcement, nothing.

So, I am kind of an advocate of kicking a WS to the curb if they are not immediately remorseful. FWH was not, when I caught him. (He lied to me, told me I was crazy, he loved me and only me, then once in front of the OW, screamed at me and told me he wanted nothing to do with me). He certainly was after he got to spend some serious time with OW.

So, I did that thing I'm not supposed to do, again... I checked her FB page. New pregnancy photos. Professional. She's very pregnant and looks to be right on schedule, according to the dates she gave. She also posted the baby's name. She's glowing and lovely and I hate her so much. Not an ounce of shame... not a smidgen of anything that says, 'Hey, I'm a whore'. Nope. She's not one little bit feeling ashamed. She's frigging glowing with MY HUSBAND'S BABY inside her. My husband has two baby mamas. Oh my God.

I feel like I can forgive him for everything... I just can't seem to forgive him for that. Who has sex with a 21 year old, and doesn't think PREGNANCY ALERT. Could she be more fertile?? Seriously, is coming inside a woman SO MUCH MORE EXCITING than straight up affair sex???? ZERO boundaries??? Literally, ZERO boundaries. He is older than her mother. He is old enough to be that baby's grandfather. He impregnated a woman five years older than our daughter. As many times as I say that, it never stops being disgusting to me.

The one thing that is giving me comfort is that I have had three children, and I know how very quickly that glow goes away. She'll be leaking milk and hopefully losing hair and never sleeping, and she'll be alone. Like she's alone now. Alone in her bed, crying herself to sleep. And she won't be able to go out on dates or dancing or scoping out a new luhhhver.

My H has never seen photos of her pregnant, and I'm so glad he hasn't seen her IRL. He loves pregnant women, loves talking to their bellies...

I feel so traumatized... I actually cannot believe this is my life. I cannot believe that my husband actually did this to us. I actually want to die.

Please somebody tell me my marriage can survive this.

I think we get immersed in this and it sort of becomes normalized. Then it becomes surreal when put in context.

Plainpain, for me, the shock comes back when I see new information that is reality. It takes a while to process and sort through.

Reality is your husband became a stranger and got involved with someone else. Now here is this child. I felt the same strangeness about my fiance. It knocks me off the rails everything I get a new reminder of what he did. I feel so alienated.

If your husband is being supportive to you and respecting boundries, the probably you have a good shot. It's really really hard and triggering and upsetting when mine goes to see his kids. It scares me. His ex is determines to frame the visit as "he went back to her and their FAMILY".

the exwife/ OW deliberately got pregnant. She has stated intentions of having 2 more children with him as the father.

want2help, he did not stay this last visit. He knows exactly how I feel and why. He points out to me that he can't be over at her place longer than 5 minutes before she has ticked him off. He sees her as a trap and thinks I am being silly about it.

We had a huge fight when he came back last Sunday. He left and went to stay with his mother since then and is apparantly trying to recover from how upset I got at him. The retreat thing. He seems to like to use that as a way to reset the situation in his favor. Unfortunately for him, I am very vocal about what I expect.

I think he will go and stay the night again soon. OW is EXTREMELY manipulative and tries to get him to engage during holidays and hubby to her and daddy to the kids. I think he is moving very quickly towards not staying there anymore, but I can feel a last hurrah on this during the holidays.

Regarding therapy, I have yet to get him into anything like that. He is an extreme introvert when it comes to most matters and in particular, personal ones.

I decided to give this another 6 months. If he won't start making choices and sorting out the custody, etc, then I don't know if I can stay. It's really messing up my own life.

So atm, I am expecting him to go visit the kids again soon. We will see if he stays over.

Like you Plainpain, I wonder how to recover the relationship really. With this stuff there never seems to be any real closure.. the end never comes because of OC.

Having a really hard time today. He decided to disregard me and I guess our relationship and has gone over to his ex's to see the kids and is spending the night.

I am being ignored completely. I know it is because he is still "upset" about last weekend.

It really hurts.

Kalli, I am so sorry. I really cannot even imagine your pain right now. My FWH has an exW, and she is a beast. Seriously the most unhappy, manipulative person on the planet. I cannot imagine what you are going through.

On that note, when I met FWH his XW only allowed him supervised visits at the local mall, ONLY if FWH had money to spend on his kids (which he often didn't, because she was literally taking 50% of his meager income before taxes).

When I met him, I insisted he have a divorce modification to make it so that he got every other weekend visitation. It cost us nothing but the filings fees. A little emotionally exhausting, yes, but they were his children and he wanted to see them without being controlled by the wicked witch of the west.

Plainpain, I'd love to be able to sit here and tell you to stay off of OW's Facebook, but I still don't take that advice. When she was near her due date, I was on it as often as I could. I think processing the pain, and the situation helped me deal with it (FWH calls it "torturing myself", I call it facing reality).

But plaipain, you are absolutely correct in your assessment of how quickly that "glow" fades. Right now you can bet OW is pleased with herself, and likely still thinks there is a chance your FWH will come running once the OC is born. Then reality is going to hit (I've watched it myself, thanks to the magic of social networking). The nights alone, with no help. All of the milestones OC will hit, and no one to share it with. It is LONELY.

In my situation, OW put up a good front on her social networking about how much she "LOVED HER LIFE" and how much she "LOVED BEING A SINGLE MOM". But I'd see comments she'd leave on pictures of other people and OC (like her best friend) that said things like "You look better as her mom than I ever will..." etc. I saw her leave comments o other people that she was in therapy for depression and hating life (she ended up with her X before my FWH, who was getting married!).

Another thing that changed wwas the excitement of the people around her. During OW's pregnancy she had her support team of BFF's that were there for her 24/7, gushing about how'd they all "raise OC together", and that "OC/OW didn't need FWH!". They threw baby showers for her and posed for pictures all kissing her belly at the same time, like it was some religious deity. It was an exciting time for them all. Well, now OC is 5 and those girls are nowhere to be found. The excitement of the AFFAIR BABY is gone, and so are they. There is NOTHING exciting about a 2/3/4/etc year old conceived of an affair. NOTHING.

We're still waiting to hear something from the attorney about the adoption. I don't know what the next step is, if it'll be FWH getting more paperwork to sign, or notification that the adoption is finalized. I just wish it would get here, it's be awesome to start the new year with OC adopted.

As far as spying goes, I had to block OW when she found me on Pinterest on NYE last year and spent the new year (from 11:30pm-12:30am) repinning my pins (what a pathetic way to ring in the new year, we go on vacation to the beach every year while she sits at home internet stalking). I peeked at her Pinterest today, and she pinned this recently:

"If I could change one thing about me, it would be the voices in my head. They don't like me."

(with the caption: I couldn't agree more".)

Good, bitch. Listen to those voices. You're a horrible fucking person. An (at least) 3 time OW, 2 OCs... you're TRASH.

[This message edited by Want2help at 2:33 PM, December 21st (Saturday)]

My guy is mad at me for not understanding that he is painted into a corner. He acknowledges that he did it to himself.

Basically getting custody orders loses him 55% of his income. And that is after the big ugly court fight that he is certain will cost a huge amount of money. He is STILL paying off debt from when they were married over 8 years ago. He tells me he can't pay it off AND afford the 55% loss in income per month.

He is stitched up. He is giving me the silent treatment. He is certain he is helpless. And I am certain if he keeps doing overnights there, a third baby will be on the way in the next few onths.

So you are right, I am in utter agony right now. Not a thing I can do about it, except shut up and leave. Or shut up and stay.

I would adopt the little guy, the OC, but everything is in such a complicated horrible mess, there is no end in sight.

The silent treatment for a week is not helpful. It's hard enough when he is here and present. I feel abandoned and thrown away. I am starting to wonder how anyone who is ok with not being with me for that amount of time could actually even care about me in terms of their own needs for love.

I'm sorry, Kalli. Only you can decide how long you will accept living this way.

(((hugs)))

My h and I have been no contact for six years ....until a month ago. H had to go to court for cs because he is pretty far behind. He came home from court and was acting strange. I kept asking him what was wrong. I knew the court date was bothering him and I knew the past due cs was weighing heavily on him so when he kept telling me nothing was wrong I just thought it was those issues. I was wrong.

He springs it on me that he is going to contact the oc. He's doing it regardless of how I feel. No discussion or anything. I have brought up the oc many times in the past. There isn't a day that went by that I didn't think about her or worry about the choices we were making. I worried about how my com were going to be effected as well. I asked several times if h wanted to contact her and I always got a resounding no. He didn't feel anything for her and she would know he didn't feel the same about oc as he did com. He felt that would hurt her more in the long run. So his change of heart was a huge surprise to me and they way he presented it a huge slap in the face. All I heard was an ultimatum....accept it or the marriage is over. He, of course, doesn't see it that way.

Sorry, I got off track a little. After many fights and the brink of divorce I decided to try. We made contact through facebook with oc's mom. They live in a different state. It was my choice to go directly through her. I tried to put myself in her shoes and how I would feel to raise a child on my own for six years. I wanted to be respectful and try to keep things amicable. I didn't want to use the courts unless we have to as a last resort.

The h and I agreed that all communication would be done when we are together and agree on what we transmit. I told him that if I decided to try, he would have to look at the oc as our daughter and not just his. He has done all I have asked in this capacity.

I will also say given the history of everything our initial contact went better than I expected. I was pleased with the way the cow was handling things.....until yesterday. She sent a message out of the blue and I am so angry about it. She asked about cs which we wanted to address anyway but then she took things to a personal level. H wrote back told her that communication was to be strictly about oc. She then wrote again saying she was keeping it about the oc. However, in my opinion she took it personal again.

So, here I am again infuriated, hurt, no control, and feeling crazy. I don't know how to deal with it. I keep thinking divorce is my only option. I don't want to keep dealing with this crap for the rest of my life. And then I am angry that I have to let go and everyone else just gets to move on with their lives, minus my kids, with no consequences.

I needed this outlet to vent.

I'm sorry, anobligation.

First, I would get to the bottom of WHY your H feels the need to contact OC. If it's strictly out of guilt, or a sense of "I'm paying for OC, may as well have contact with OC, I do not think that's in the best interest of anyone.

Secondly, in my own experience (my FWH has children-now adults- from his previous M and now an OC) custodial parents often equate financial support with the right to visitation. They are entirely separate in my state, money goes through child support, visitation goes through courts.

If this is the case, I would calmly remind her that you are getting the CS taken care of, apologize for being behind, and let her know that a relationship with OC is much more valuable than money.

I'm sorry that you're going through this, it is unfair of your FWH to give you that kind of ultimatum without talking it out, in my opinion.

Thanks Want2help!

I understand h's reasons for wanting contact. I feel it is the right thing to do as well both for oc and com but not necessarily the easiest. My kids are thrilled. They are young enough not to understand the implications. The oc is very sweet, open, and loving. She is overjoyed to have her dad in her life and has embraced me and her siblings as well.

The cow said in her message that the relationship was more important than cs. The messages were still self-serving, She played the victim/martyr and crossed a line as far as I am concerned. It's her total lack of self-realization that kills me. There is no accountability only the role of the victim.

I had to delete a message I almost fired off at her in anger. I just hate not saying anything but then again I am trying not to engage.

Once I began to respond to contact from OW, things blew up badly, anobligation. Even now I get contact from the lady and she is ugly hearted. Be so careful, once the bad feelings are picked up, the drama is explosive. Everyone gets hurt. Kids, you, your husband, OW makes bitter.

Anyway. I see my fiance's issues is that he is still enmeshed in feelings of guilt and obligation. Trying to make everyone happy, then getting frustrated and saying screw it and doing what is easiest on him in the short term.

Wantto, that ex thinks she is entitled to EVERYTHING because she has his kids. I think she pesters the heck after him about getting remarried and coming "home". She LOVES the arguments and drama.

I already told him what I feel is the best way forward. He has me here, I have a diamond on my finger. His promise as a man is to me, his promise as a father is to his kids. I gave my input, laid out my own boundries and simply told him what I feel I need. Now he has a choice to decide how he is going to sort it out. He made the mess, he can clean it up.

Once he stops sulking and being mad at everyone else for being upset with him.

My perspective is maybe more balanced today. I resigned myself to his silent treatment and have gone about my own business and did some things I have been needing to do and some things I wanted to do that make me feel better.

Plainpain I am thinking of you today. Give yourself a break on the facebook stuff. It's hard not to look at it, but avoiding it for your own well being to keep yourself from spiraling down is way more important.

This whole Christmas season is messing me up. We watched The Nativity movie last night, and I couldn't think of anything other than that OW is fully pregnant, OC could easily be born on Christmas Day, OC is the 'miracle baby' she wasn't supposed to have because she 'couldn't get pregnant'. It's all jumbling together in my head. This whole advent/expectation feeling that I usually have at Christmas is now morphing into a dread and a counting down of the days until OC is born. My H's birthday is Christmas Day. I'm terrified OC will be born on Christmas/his birthday.

How's that for a trigger? Mother Mary and baby Jesus are a BIG, MONSTER-SIZED TRIGGER.

Ugh, plainpain, I will be thinking of you on Christmas, and willing OC to not be born.

I understand, OW's birthday is the same day as my father's death (he died 2 years before the A, and his death was the biggest factor in the downward spiral our relationship was on at the time). OC was born on my father's birthday. Everything about OW and OC remind me of my father, my only parent, dying.

I will be thinking of you, too. Hopefully the child will thwart it's mother's wishes. May it be the first in a long line of future thwartings.

*hugs* to everyone here.

Hi Everybody ((((((everybody)))))

As Christmas nears I am thinking of everyone. I just went through and saw some new names/stories. Sorry all of you are here. But you've come to the right place for encouragement, support and understanding! I just had my bonus baby's 4th birthday party yesterday (she is an ALMOST Christmas baby) and it was a blast. After all this time I am truly at peace when it comes to her. Now her mother... we have a fairly good working relationship... she calls me her "co-mommy", but I still don't trust her. I'm not talking about trying to get with my hubby, I'm talking her being manipulative. We had to take the little one down to her mom's (they live in a different city) for the party she was giving her and OMG. The child is a different person when she is there. With us she is great... very obedient etc, there, yeah, didn't listen. She actually hit me. Something that does not happen and is not tolerated in our house. Then when I told her to apologize she would not. Her father/my hubby (who she ALWAYS listens to) had to tell her to apologize before she would. It just made me think about how much of an impact her mother and what she allows, tolerates, does etc is rubbing off on this child. She and her mother have a very strange relationship. She truly feeds off her mother's energy. Like once while she was with me her mother called and was talking to her and was talking in a very sad tone, and this child started crying, just from that! Then while we were there for the party her mother was negotiating with her (something else we don't do) to get her to leave with us (she wanted to stay with all her new birthday gifts... it was sooooo frustrating) and her mother says to her "OH baby, don't cry, you're gonna make me cry" and I thought... Okay, that's where she gets that from. (s/n- when my hubby said "she can stay if you want her to stay that bad" she QUICKLY changed her tone and was like "well I always want her to stay, but if she stays she will just wake up and be upset when she realizes she can't go with yall" and took the little one to the back to "talk with her". Little one came out acting like her normal self. was ready to go, no fuss, no tears (so I know she didn't get scolded), nothing, just acted as she normally does when we pick her up, it was all very strange to me)

Anyway, I digress, lol. I wanted to come wish everyone a Merry Christmas and peace of mind. Enjoy the holidays as best you can... PLEASE.

@Plainpain... I'll be joining Kalliopeia and Want2Help in praying that child stays put past the holiday.

Hi All,

I haven't posted over the holidays which for me is pretty good - we dealt with Christmas fairly well considering we're living in seperate houses and my family now hates H. Which my oldest child sees and is pretty angry because he's still daddy and loves him so much. But, we spent the holiday with his parents too...so that made it easier.

Our final court date is in a couple of weeks. This one will determine how much support OW gets (if any - my H receives disability support). AND my H ran into one of the fathers of OW's children (he recognized him from a pic OW took off of facebook and said (according to her ex) 'SEE I TOLD U I KNEW WHO HIS DAD IS!' ) and he said "OW is a vindictive bitch - she tried to break up me and my wife because she was mad I wouldn't stay and help her raise our child and her other children - be careful man...don't even bother with visitation." WOW.

**edited to say: ((((HUGS TO ALL)))) hoping and praying we all have a happy 2014!!**

[This message edited by strongerdaybyday at 9:57 AM, December 27th (Friday)]

Hello, Merry Christmas to all. I hope everyone enjoyed their holiday... and plainpain hope OC stayed in womb. Sending hugs and strength.

As far as I can tell, baby is still in.

Awesome Plainpain. I was thinking about you on Christmas Day.