SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just my two cents.

While I appreciate the author giving his perspective, a few things stand out in my mind. First, he is not being honest. Unless he has told his BS everything, he is still living in secrecy. I know that he is not claiming to be honest, but it is almost implied as he is explaining his methods and mentality.

Second, “wanting more sex” is an excuse. He is saying that is why he went after other woman and that it is all he was looking for. Hell, I have not had sex in almost 18 months so I could say that I am not getting enough. But I am not going after other woman, let alone married woman. One of the key things that gets mentioned in the Wayward Forum is digging deep to find out the “why” of the affair. The author has not found out the “whys” of his behavior.

Third, he was not honest with the women he went after. It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better.

I know that not all A's resemble this situation. Sometimes it is the woman who is the more aggressive person. I understand that there can be a one time mistake or a momentary lack of boundaries. But, A's are flat out a painful experience that extends beyond the two individuals involved. It doesn't matter what the reason or excuse is. There is NO justification for an A. It doesn't matter what your significant other said or did.

Again, I applaud the many WS's on SI who have done the work to R or at least dig to find out the whys of their actions.

One final thought, For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job. Um, no. Gotta disagree on this one. Not everyone has a hidden agenda. Don't remember who has it in their signature but the quote is something like “integrity is what you do when no one is looking.”

[This message edited by gotmylifeback at 1:25 AM, September 18th (Tuesday)]

The guy isn't saying anything shocking IMO.

AP's use each other equally. The WW's in this story were not duped by this OM.

It reminds me of the line from Night Moves. I used her, she used me. But neither one cared. We were gettin' our share.

If AP's weren't getting what they wanted they wouldn't be doing it. It's that equal exchange that keep affairs going.

People only cry foul is when they realize they were also the getting used in the process. How DARE they! Takers don't like it when they realize they themselves were taken.

Yes he sounds like a sick bastard but maybe this particular guy is more self aware than the WS and AP who see themselves as victims or who romanticize their affairs as special or about love. He knows he's a user and a taker and sounds like he's ok with that. He feels he deserves what he's getting -- where have we heard that before -- serial cheater or no serial cheater.

Is there a sliding scale that makes one selfish individual better or worse than another?

The people to whom he is most dangerous are his BW and kids -- the victims in all this -- but that is the case with any WS.

Over and over we see it, hear it, say it, read it, live it but no matter what, no matter what excuse, reason, motive, justification, explanation, cause, basis, grounds, no matter what. IT TAKES TWO WILLING PEOPLE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR. Not one weak one and one strong one. It doesn't matter who does or does not have the stronger/weaker sex drive or who was/wasn't getting the attention they needed. It does not matter who worked more/less around the house or with the children. It does not matter who stayed/didn't stay in shape or kept themselves up. ALL of these things are important, but NONE of them are an excuse for an affair. You can villianize the OW or the OM ALL you want to, but it just comes down to this: IT TAKES TWO WILLING PEOPLE. PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER TO SAY NO AND THEY HAVE THE POWER TO SAY YES. WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO SAY DETERMINES WHAT IS DONE IN A RELATIONSHIP. And the SOONER you stop blaming the OP/AP the sooner you will be able to SEE and HEAL the damaged person you are/or that you are married to. This is just my opinion.

[This message edited by whensitover at 9:48 AM, September 18th (Tuesday)]

When I posted this, it was in no way to make women or men feel victimized.

I posted this so that people could see the mindset of this particular cheater.

Gender makes no difference and blame is not one-sided.

Both participants are at fault.

All guys don't think this way, but those who are predators do. Their techniques may vary but they are all looking for a weakness.

Yes it is up to the person to keep up boundaries so this doesn't happen.

This is just a tool for those to see that the OM or OW is not in it 95% of the time for a long-term relationship. They want to get needs met and will go to great lengths to do it as long as they can keep their target on the line.

The only usefull tool to avoid a OM/OW is a healthy you.

By saying this is a tool to help a Wayward realize that the OP is not in it for a long term relationship is just too late. If that is what changes the the mind of a Wife or Husband who is in a "Long term relationship" that, well I would get involved with him/her but they probably wont want a ltr. Then I think we have already failed..

With all the talk about victimizing and portraying as victims etc...

Did anyone notice that this guys technique was not about seduction, convincing, pressuring... this was not about "having game" or anything else. It was just a technique he used to identify who would cheat. Nothing different than a fisherman casting a line and seeing which fish was dumb enough to bite.

Yeah, what Dixie said.

fWH was horrified when our MC pointed out that he had taken advantage of knowing what was going on in MOW's marriage to be to her what she thought she preferred. MC was totally right. But MOW was not blameless. She did exactly the same thing! If either one of them had an ounce of self respect and self awareness at the time, it probably wouldn't have started.

I see this as a cautionary tale, but one that could potentially give a false sense of security. Sure, this guy sounds like you'd see him coming a mile away, but I bet he's subtle and comes off as the good guy. I'd alo be willing to bet he gaslights his conquests as much as he does his BW.

Just my 2 cents.

This is just a tool for those to see that the OM or OW is not in it 95% of the time for a long-term relationship. They want to get needs met and will go to great lengths to do it as long as they can keep their target on the line.

Great lengths -- like lying. WS do that too.

Whether the AP is looking for a ONS, short-term fun, a LTR -- whatever, it's still about both AP's getting what they want -- each getting their so called needs met at the time. One is not more noble than the other.

This isn't going to be a popular stance here, but I see most WS as predators. I didn't used to but I do now.

Affairs do not just happen. AP's seek out the weak because they are weak. They are hunting to get what they want, some more aggressively than others. They smell that ripeness that the OP may be interested in something.

It may not be as strong as a shark smelling blood in the water and attacking but as Aesir pointed out with the fisherman scene, at least one is throwing a line out to see who takes the bait. If you aren't fighting for your life to get away, you are not prey.

Maybe you are not the one who initiated the first exchange so that makes it better somehow -- but as soon as you decided this is what you want -- you are hunting to get what to think you need/want just as hard as your AP is. Thinking it's all in the name of love, or your next LTR to get those needs met doesn't mean it's any less predatory then the guy that's just out for a fun time -- not IMO anyway. Both AP are on the hunt for themselves or there would be no affair.

Lots are on the hunt for something and giving off the vibe long before their AP came along, they just didn't know it. Doesn't mean it's a predator/prey situation.

[This message edited by DixieDevastated at 12:04 PM, September 18th (Tuesday)]

I am not meaning to offend - I think part (not all) of why this article is so upsetting to me is that I've seen the same behavior and blatant "I'm using these people" attitude in single folks too. There are all kinds of single people of both genders who just wanna use other people, and who probably have the exact same attitude as the author. Just because they're "legitimately" single doesn't make it healthy or right. Admitting to preying on others, whether you're single or married and whether they're single or married, and doing it with so little emotion, really is sickening. Since the author and the women he pursues are all married... That means he's knowingly hurting their families, their BHs and children, in addition to his own BW. And he just doesn't care.

And no, I'm not letting the WWs in this situation off the hook. I think the reaction is so strongly against the author because, since he wrote the article, we're in HIS head. I'd be interested to read any articles that were written by the WWs in this situation.

I think anyone feels a great deal of discomfort when another person outright admits to using other people, and so callously. That's why WSs find it so hard to own their actions. Either compartmentalize - like that douche was doing - or look in the mirror and cringe. And own it and FEEL IT.

Thank you to SI for giving us the support we need to become better people.

The only usefull tool to avoid a OM/OW is a healthy you.

By saying this is a tool to help a Wayward realize that the OP is not in it for a long term relationship is just too late. If that is what changes the the mind of a Wife or Husband who is in a "Long term relationship" that, well I would get involved with him/her but they probably wont want a ltr. Then I think we have already failed..

You can pick apart my posts as much as you like. Long term relationship is meant in the context of the AP or even WS promising that if that will keep the person in the affair.

He/she may be candid and say they just want no strings attached or a ONS, In any means it is said to keep the other in the affair for as long as they want it to go on.

A healthy you is definitely needed to not have an affair...and yes it is too late for those of us who already went that path, but this is for the present.

Some of us know now..some us still fight with it and who knows if someone is lurking and may read this and they see it stops them from making a mistake.

This isn't going to be a popular stance here, but I see most WS as predators. I didn't used to but I do now

You are correct in that statement because when the WS makes the decision to go with the AP..they become predators also.

Contacting and setting up dates, hunting down their AP for another fix...I can agree with that.

Becoming good liars (not all, but some)and covering tracks. Yep. I agree.

FRM, I think from a BS side this is good for discussion because so many of us in the beginning -- and I was one of them -- want to blame the AP more than the WS.

The AP must have been a predator.

I've especially seen that on this site with some BH. Maybe that helps them sleep at night. But I think part of the healing process for a BS and WS is that they have to accept and own what happened. No one held a gun to the WS's head. They wanted to do it and they did it. There are a lot of women out there, single and married who are no shrinking violets.

They too become predators and all that entails to keep getting what they want.

Perhaps the AP were the aggressor in the beginning -- I like that word more than predator, cuz with predator comes the notion on the other side there was a victim or someone weaker. I don't believe that to be true.

As always you get people talking

[This message edited by DixieDevastated at 12:44 PM, September 18th (Tuesday)]

Perhaps the AP were the aggressor in the beginning -- I like that word more than predator, cuz with predator comes the notion on the other side there was a victim or someone weaker

Predator does denote that there is a victim..I will say that sometimes the WS may be ripe for an affair, but not consciously looking for one until presented.

So it's just an instance that is waiting to happen and a person is clever enough to coax it to fruition(aggressor).

In the animal kingdom, prey is not looking to be killed, just wrong place, wrong time or right place right time depending on the view.

So saying a WS is a victim is not true to me either. They were willing to give in to the aggressor.

As always you get people talking

I just put things out that interest me..seems it interests others too at times..lol

Thanks for posting.

[This message edited by floridaredman at 12:58 PM, September 18th (Tuesday)]

Did anybody read the piece in New York Magazine about child predators, specifically Jerry Sandusky? It describes the way they approach their potential victims. The similarities here are creepy.

This sounds like the guy my best friend just ruined her life over.

She is a therapist with three college degrees in behavioral science/psych/social work.

She analyzed these things as she was simultaneously falling for them. That's how powerful FOG can be.

From what I can tell, this guy has a lot of similarities to OM, even down to the detail of lying to my wife about having a vasectomy and having a "built in shmuck" to pay the tab (that would be me).

Another poster mentioned that this guy sounds like a sociopath, and I think that fits the bill pretty closely.

In a strange way, I find relief in the fact that OM was such a selfish sociopath. He's only looking out for his own best interests. He could give a rat's ass about my wife and his biological child that I am raising and loving as my own.

Ultimately that's what I want, is for him to leave my family alone, and that is what he has done, even though it is only because of his own "best interests" and CYA on his part. He's only interested in chasing his next piece of tail, as far as I know.

Triggery article, but a lot of food for thought. Thanks, FRM.

[This message edited by LosferWords at 12:08 AM, September 19th (Wednesday)]

Sociopath, um - ya think?

Nothing different than a fisherman casting a line and seeing which fish was dumb enough to bite.

THis struck home. The OM in the article, I think, is less a sociopath/predator than he is a fisherman fishing for sex.

FWW and I have had this conversation a lot. Her OM was a serial cheater. Did he seduce my "weak and vulnerable" FWW? I don't think so. OM had been in a running group with several women (including FWW) for quite a while. He was fishing for his next AP and he cast his bait at a time when FWW was ready to bite. If FWW hadn't taken the bait when she did, it could easily have been someone else. Indeed, within a few months after their A ended, OM was with a new AP.

mine was a sociopath...hard line sociopath. Had 3 A going at once.....I could sit here for hours and tell you the insanity that he embodies....but....ya know

MortuusCor, what I meant by him being honest is he spelled out exactly what he wanted from these women: sex. That's it. In no way was I even implying he was being honest with anyone else. Not the women he was pursuing, not his friends or family, certainly not his BW.

As I said in my other post, I do NOT see the WWs as victims. They chose to take the bait he threw out. Same as every WS did, whether they admit and own the choice or not. As a very old but true saying goes, it takes two to tango.

You know, I see this OM as being a really sad person.

He doesn't have enough self esteem to go and approach a woman who is single and confident, he has to go after the vulnerable.

In the pick up artist world, most agree that married women are the easiest women to get, mostly for the reasons already mentioned in earlier responses. I agree with this.

I was never an OM, but I had a lot of opportunities to be in my younger days. It was so weird how many women who already had boyfriends or husbands were interested in me. But I didn't need any external validation from anyone (or in this guys case, extra sex).

The very same year my WW did what she did, there was this beautiful woman who is a singer/songwriter (I am also a singer/songwriter) who made it absolutely obvious that she was interested in me. Everyone knew it and most of my friends were angry at her for making it so obvious.

They were like 'what's going on between you and blah blah'? Nothing was going on, because my marriage vows actually meant something to me. Sure, she was beautiful and she was a great musician and we could have made really cool music together, but I was married and that means something pretty huge to me.

I could have been a WH and I could have been an OM, but instead I chose to honour marriage and relationships, and even though I ended up becoming a BH, I am proud not to lose my integrity.

This OM never seemed to have any integrity or self worth at all.