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I think we fail to remember that their professions do not define who they are as people.

Well, I am sure that some people do their jobs just because that is all they can get that pays the bills, such as maybe garbage collectors and *SOME* strippers. However, I am a college professor, and to a large degree, that defines who I am.

I work with teachers and I would guess that 99.9% of them would say being a teacher is a large part of "defining who they are."

I would agree that not all people can be defined by their job, but many people can be, including most strippers. That is my opinion.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 6:07 AM, October 11th (Thursday)]

Just a thought:

And, really, my FWH and a stripper in the same house? puhleeze................

To me, there's a 2nd component in you judging and it's this. You have extra reason to be uncomfortable. No one has really focused on the subtext to your discomfort (unless it's the shout out that the reason we're all in this forum is due to infidelity and sexual impropriety).

I myself am currently prejudiced against female cops. Hmm. And women who trawl for sex on CL, oh, and waitresses, and attorneys who give away US tax dollars to foreign aid programs (that's the short list) ... gee, I wonder why????

No one has really focused on the subtext to your discomfort

Thank you cayc. So true. Hey, its bad enough I have to deal with the Up North slut with the loose boundaries (and she does it for free!) but, really, having someone in my house that blurs the lines of appropriate behaviour for a living? I think that is expecting a lot of me. I am not Saint Milkshake.

Touchy subject here. We all have our opinions I guess. I never dated a stripper. But I did go out few times with a girl who bartended at one of those lingerie bars. Thats where I met her. In my early twenties a group of guys I worked with used to go there every other week when we got paid. Typical place overpriced drinks, hot scantily clad women etc. I used to just chat with her when I went there. It was not really my type of joint. But I wanted to fit in with the guys so I went along. She actually was a pretty nice girl. She was a single mother who married young. Husband left her and gave no support. She told me the only thing she had going for her at the time was her looks. And she made good money there. She was not the type who hustled guys for money or gave sob stories. She worked 4 hours a night and was going to school during the day. To be honest when I took her out it was pretty normal. Dinner, movies, listening to music at bars. And trust me when I say this she was not putting out.

I asked her why she wanted to go out with me as she asked me out to begin with. She said that I was the only guy there that actually spoke normally to her. Most guys naturally assumed she was an easy piece of ass. But she wasnt. When the guys I worked with found out I was dating her they started with all the frat boy questions and comments. But reality was far different than their assumptions. It was in fact what we all would call "normal dates" I probably would have continued seeing her but she had alot of baggage. And at the time I was not looking for a relationship. Plus she had a kid and I was too young for that. I do know she hated working there and could not wait to graduate and find a regular job. I have to admit I liked her. I often wonder what ever hapened to her. I hope she found her way in life. I guess you cant judge a book from its cover.

OK, couldn't resist the urge to jump in here.

Gonnabe2016 is spot on.

Sister, you have a right to pick and choose who you invite into your home. Your son has a right to date whomever he chooses. However, just because he is your son, you do not have an obligation to allow him to bring whatever pond scum he wants into your clean (read that moral) home.

To those who keep saying that all strippers do is take off their clothes and dance seductively, and do nothing else... you are living in the dark ages!

My marriage was compromised and nearly destroyed because my h became so accustomed to the environment with work "meetings", etc. that he began to see these people as normal working girls. NOW, away from it all, he can clearly see that FIRST, it takes a certain person to be able to get up in front of a crowd, take off her clothes and jiggle what she's got in a seductive manner as her advertisement. Her money is made by "lap dancing" which is essentially dry humping. Come on- even someone who thinks a girl needs a job to support her family has to admit that it is demoralizing to pretend to screw a guy for a living. OK- that's the first part of example of how messed up SHE is starting out in this relationship.

According to my H, who unfortunately visited the multitude of clubs around here, and got to know a great many stripper "friends" will say that NONE come without damage. THe MAJORITY use drugs and alcohol excessively. MOST provide a "menu" of offerings up to full service. (I'm not just including the low class clubs- but also the high class gentleman's clubs whose names you'd recognize.)

And most importantly, if a relationship with the stripper and you son does truly develop, can HE handle the idea that every day she goes to work, she is purposely enticing and seducing as many men as she can... and at the bare minimum, makes her money by "lap dancing" (dry humping). My h was fully aware that there are plenty of jealous husbands and boyfriends of strippers, who you hear about in the news when they beat up or shoot patrons they are angry with. (I'm not making this up- off the top of my head, I can think of 4 different shootings/murders that occurred in the nearby city which houses the most clubs.) I am not saying that YOUR son would do anything wrong, but many patrons become quite possessive of their favorite strippers. They call and text outside of the club to set up meeting each other, which leads them to believe there is a real connection. These "regulars" often don't like seeing their stripper getting too close to their boyfriend or h, and vice versa, setting up a volatile situation. Can your son handle watching other men flirt and touch his girlfriend in front of him. Can you son stay away from her while working and NOT worry about what she's doing with the next guy?

If I were you, I would talk with your son about the real life cons of this relationship. If he is still gung-ho, you still have the right to express your opinion, and ask that he does not bring that into your home.

(All that being said- I went to a fancy work party once, and one of the guys brought his stripper girlfriend. It took all of a couple of minutes for her to show her "work" skills at trying to manipulate men, and he was genuinely ashamed that his sexy girlfriend embarrassed him by "being herself".)

What is your H's opinion? Would or could he have a man to man with the son out of his concern to protect his son from the obvious long term outcome?

[This message edited by triskele at 7:19 AM, October 11th (Thursday)]

I suppose that would boil down to your definition of morals. According to my own personal moral code, being in the *sex industry* constitutes a violation.

There are enough preachers out there cheating that I don't think profession has much of anything to do with morality until it edges into the "I'm a psycho killer what eats fetuses" territory.

As the mother of 3 pre-teen boys, I am not looking forward to the dating game - AT ALL.

I am extremely liberal, I really try to be very open minded and non-judgmental. I have never really given much thought to strippers and never once thought about my kids ever dating one. Now of course, I think it would be my worst nightmare. As open minded as I want to believe I am, I would have a hard time with it.

That being said, we make the decisions about what we are comfortable with in our own homes. If you're uncomfortable, then that's all that matters. For me, I refuse to allow any negative comments about someone's sexuality, race, weight or disabilities. My WH and children know how I feel, they may not agree, but they respect that my feelings are mine and since I'm the mom/wife, my rules are THE rules as long as you live with me. End. Of. Story.

FWIW - my dad is a life-long Playboy subscriber, if you want me to look up her "bio" i'd be happy to. i'm pretty sure she wouldn't write that she's a stripper, but it might tell you something about her. then again, it could all be lies.

Hi

I haven't read the whole thread but basically some comments make me feel ill.

Not the girl I would want for my son. Not the girl I want in my home.

With good reason I believe. I am sure there are lots of "very nice" strippers, prostitutes, porn stars, mercenaries, etc out there who are just trying to earn a living. All of us are doing that. Sometimes, times get tough and work is hard to find. If I'm poor, a deserted wife and have 3 little kids to feed am I a good person if I become a drug dealer because the hours are good, the money is good and I can spend quality time with my kids and help out at their school and maybe even spend some time with the poor old lady next door who never has visitors? It's not my fault that these idiots kill themselves using drugs is it? I am not hurting anyone. They make the choices to buy this crap.

A stripper doesn't make men want to cheat on their wives. I can hear the justification:

The men make the choice to buy any additional services I provide. If a married man comes to see me several times, begins to want me and I do whatever to make him feel attractive that's not my fault. If he goes home and looks at his wife and starts to desire a younger more attractive woman you can't blame me!!!!!

But I believe our choice of jobs says a lot about our character. When my daughter was considering a job in law I was really worried she would have to compromise her values. When my husband and I had a business there were many times we could have been dishonest and made much more money. Sometimes it is very hard to make ends meet. Me, I'd rather scrub floors than strip (In case you were wondering I was offered a modelling contract at 19 so I have (or should say had ) the credentials.

No our jobs do not define who we are as people. Yes everyone has to find a way to earn a living.

But our choice of jobs does reflect on our character.

Personally, I would rather support my daughter until the day she dies or see her working 40 hours a week in a fast food place compared to 20 in a strip joint rather than demean herself and all women working as a stripper.

Call me narrow minded, a prude, conservative whatever. I don't care. I am tired of excuses/justifications for immoral behaviour.

Laura

ETA: I would also question the values of a male stripper!!

[This message edited by Laura28 at 8:04 AM, October 11th (Thursday)]

I feel compelled to clarify that prostitution is not legal in Las Vegas. Lol

SM, I would feel the same as you. I am no fan of the industry for an assortment of reasons. Hope it was just one date.

Your house, your rules.

I agree, your house, your rules. Don't have her over if you are uncomfortable.

I also think you are jumping the gun. Maybe the stripper has family of her own to see at during the holidays? Maybe your son will chose to go with her? You don't know that they will even be together in a month

You also need to remember that this stripper isn't likely the only attractive woman your husband is going to run into. You can't stop your husband from seeing them, unless literally you either lock him up in the house or arrange to have his eyes gouged out.

So, what does your husband do to comfort you when you trigger? Perhaps, he should be redoubling his efforts there, to make you more comfortable.

My H is a recovering sex addict and I have a son. I'm sure my son is going to engage in behavior that's going to trigger the sh*t out of me. (Sorry, but I don't see my son never masturbating or trying to watch porn etc. He's 8 so we have a year or two yet before we deal with this.) But, I know I'm going to have to be careful. My husband's SA is not my son's cross to bear, kwim?

When your daughter is dancing in a club or your son comes home with a stripper you can get back to me and we'll see if you feel the same.

DD has a friend that has been a stripper - does that count? She has been to my home and she is a very nice girl. She stripped for a while to help pay her college tuition. Oh and that same girl is now an engineer at boeing.

NEH, maybe it is just me, but your post above does not go well with your tagline.

You know I am all for boundaries and people not liking things, and I think I laid that out in my first post. This comment brings me back though:

If I'm poor, a deserted wife and have 3 little kids to feed am I a good person if I become a drug dealer because the hours are good, the money is good and I can spend quality time with my kids and help out at their school and maybe even spend some time with the poor old lady next door who never has visitors? It's not my fault that these idiots kill themselves using drugs is it? I am not hurting anyone. They make the choices to buy this crap.

That isn't narrow minded or conservative, it's wrongful, spiteful and hateful.

What connection does education have with drugs? If you were a pharmacist and selling meth that's a better analogy. Whether or not all strippers are whores or all cops are corrupt or all dogs go to valhalla crosses a line from personal boundaries to generalizing a group of people. Maybe someone's experience with a township of racist, homophobic corrupt cops in some podunk West Texas town has led them to believe all cops are like that because that's their experience, and I can see a seething hatred and disgust for all cops if someone has to suffer that.

Rationally, however, a police officer has a duty to enforce law, and is given a certain measure of autonomy to do so. It is to the police officer individually that corruption or amorality is blamed, even if it's an entire township force. The same with any other legal profession, which includes stripping. If these women are doing something illegal then that's on them, as well as the men or women who facilitate and engage in that.

It is not only wrongful to box up every single stripper as a whore, it strips those people of their personal responsibility for their choices, at both ends of whatever transaction occurs. You know what else ruins lives? Alcohol. How many people die every single day because they're too fucking stupid to put their keys down and walk it off for a few hours?

The people who brew, distribute and sell that alcohol are not responsible for those deaths any more than strippers who don't have sex with people illegally are whores.

People can abuse anything. You can eat too much toothpaste over time and get stomach cancer. While nude dancers are obviously plying a sex appeal, that's an extreme end of the spectrum which also involves everything from clothes commercials and broadway musical presentations to 50 shades of horribly written BDSM softporn.

I respect that people find certain professions repugnant and that's fine. I consider it degrading to throw out an entire group of people as a social cancer.

eta:

As for scrubbing floors, it's easy to say that when you don't have to scrub floors for less than minimum wage while your 3 kids are at school and that 40 dollars a week doesn't even keep the electricity on and you have no family to help you.

Having had the power company turn my heat and lights off in the middle of the worst blizzard since 1994 while I was commuting 90 miles each direction to drag piles of discarded scrap metal around so I could try to make rent and cobra for my sick wife and 2 month old infant, I don't know how scrubbing floors would have fed another mouth on less than a third of 15 bucks an hour. If I had killer tits and didn't suffer from a crushing introverted personality I'd have gone out and gyrated my ass to the beat instead of scrounging firewood and choking on pine fumes from a chimney we couldn't afford to have cleaned and a landlord who didn't give a shit and there was no Meat Night that week because there was nothing on sale low enough to afford.

Being poor *fucking sucks* - I don't blame people for making ends meet however they can within the bounds of the law.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 10:08 AM, October 11th (Thursday)]

I maybe jumping the gun, but I told DS I didn't want to have a stripper at our holiday dinner. In fact, told him I didn't want a stripper in my house. I chose to not associate with strippers, I feel I can chose to not have them in my house.

And if he and this girl get serious, you just ensured that you will see a whole lot less of him.

I don't think it matters if you are being judgemental or not, the point is you just turned dating this girl into a cause. For your son it could have been a novel ego boost, going out with a girl who was in Playboy. But now if he ends up liking her it will be all the more romantic.

I know

I thought about changing it before I posted but that seemed kind of dishonest,

I saw the tagline somewhere else and "stole" it, it realy does apply to OW (she wasn't a stripper, she had a "respectable" job)

but Aesir, just becasue someone strips, doesn't mean they sleep around.

t/j one reason I won't ever judge someone my kids date before meeting them is because I have been the one pre-judged. Not because I was a stipper but because I had a child. H's parents treatment of me, even after we married, led to him and they having a huge fight 7 years after we married, and they haven't spoken since and that was 18 - 19 years ago. It's so sad.

ETA: back to the tagline, it is in reference to the OW, who I am not [italics]pre-judging[/italics]

[This message edited by neverendinghurt at 10:17 AM, October 11th (Thursday)]

NEH, just because they strip does not mean they sleep around- you are correct.

But, because they strip, they DO sell their bodies and their sexuality (and lots of bs to pump up their customers to keep spending money on them).

I do believe that a good girl might chose stripping to make some fast and very easy cash just using their bodies... but if that girl has integrity, and morals, she will see that she is selling an objectified woman and sex... and will not stay in that profession.

We all push limits, but that is a big morality limit to be pushing, and then, I believe it does define who they are as a person. How can you say it does not? That woman choses to sell her body (despite whatever limitations she puts on her "extras" that she sells along with her lap dances). Does that not tell us who she is as a person?

Does that not tell us who she is as a person?

It doesn't tell me who they are as people, no it really doesn't.

We are each of us more than what we do for a living.

Personally I am more interested in how someone treats others than in what they do for a living.

We have seen over and over that some people that we think of as a respectable and leading resepectable lives are anything but respectable, ethical or moral.

In recent weeks a news story has begun to break in britain. It concerns a famous celebrity there, he died about a year ago. During his many years in show business, he raised thousands and thousands for charities. He worked closely with several hospitals. He was well known for working with handicapped people, kids and adults.

He was almost considered a saint.

He was knighted.

He is now being accused by over 20 women of sexual abuse going back over four decades. Abusing young girls all of that time.

Good point, NEH.

But I see it as him choosing an honorable profession- one that he could be proud of and could be accepted. He chose "good" where his profession was concerned. His profession defined him as a good man, although he truly was not.

How would we look at him if he had made his money exploiting women and promoting all levels of prostitution, but gave some of his earnings to shelters for abused women?

I maintain that one will not compromise himself to work in a profession that promotes objectifying women and encouraging others to give them money to perform sexually, if they strongly felt that it was immoral or below their personal values.

I was never a prude, nor am I now, although I must admit that I am somewhat jaded. The mere fact that there are now 4 pages of comments on this topic indicate that there IS a connotation put on stripping as a profession. Like it or not, these girls are prejudged. Like prejudice, it is an earned judgment. Whether or not she is a saint who is doing what she believes in her heart to be ok, her chosen profession says something about her character and her standards.

[This message edited by triskele at 10:52 AM, October 11th (Thursday)]

Hey, its bad enough I have to deal with the Up North slut with the loose boundaries (and she does it for free!) but, really, having someone in my house that blurs the lines of appropriate behaviour for a living? I think that is expecting a lot of me. I am not Saint Milkshake.

SisterMilkshake, how is Mr SisterMilkshake responding to all of this? Is he being reassuring? Has he done or said anything to make you uncomfortable? How are you feeling about him right now in this situation?