SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If you're planning to see an attorney then I wouldn't confront her. Let filing for D do all the talking. You gave her a chance and were more lenient with her than her actions deserved and this is how she repayed you.

Time for full 180. You don't have to tell her why until you talk to your lawyer.

I told her i already spoke with my attorney. In reality, I hadn't yet.

There is no harm in confronting her, but why bother? Didn't you already confront her? Didn't she already promise to end it "soon"? Didn't she swear on someone's grave already? Didn't you just find out that it was all just words, "blah blah," that she's still planning secret meetups, still lying about it, still absolutely no evidence of ending it? She said she would end it "soon," but did she even bring the subject up again?

You said it yourself, "Blah Blah." She doesn't care what you say, or what you threaten to do. She didn't care that you already had "spoke with my attorney." Either she figures you for "all talk no action" or she just doesn't care. Will she care when she actually is served? There is only one way to find out.

But the time for talk is over. No harm in talking, but if you do, it's all just lies, and it's all just a waste of time.

Luke, this is how it plays out just about every time. Your case is fairly typical. She's not going to just end this; she thinks you will allow the affair to continue, that you will not do anything about it, or at least not enough. Nothing you SAY will make her think you are serious.

If I were in your shoes, I would just go see an attorney and file for divorce. Don't say a word to her about it. Let her come to you to talk after she has been served. Really, do not even bring up the affair again. Let her bring it up if she wants to talk. Why should you be chasing after her to save this marriage? Let her chase and beg you; SHE is the one who cheated, not you. Live normally with her until she is served. Why waste your breath until she knows you're serious? And then? She may choose to leave you for him. There are no guarantees.

A few truisms from the cheater's script:

1. Don't believe the words, the tears, the look in her eyes - only believe in her actions; her actions won't lie.

2. You have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it. An affair is thrilling. The sex in an affair is fantastic, fueled by those new love butterflies and the excitement of sneaking around and having a special secret and not getting caught. Many, if not most cheaters, who follow the script your wife is following won't end the affair until they are forced to by the loyal spouse filing for divorce. You can stop the divorce if she somehow can prove to you the affair has ended. That will be tough for her to do while she still works with the other man.

3. After you have her served, which will likely be a couple of weeks at least, consider letting her very close family and friends know what is going on. You'll have to wait until that time to see if you think it might help the situation. Sometimes it does. When everyone close to her knows about it, you can ask them to try to influence her to give your marriage another chance. Having people know takes a lot of the thrill and excitement of the secrets and the lies and the sneaking around out of the affair. It becomes no fun anymore with everyone knowing. The affair sex becomes ordinary sex again, maybe not even ordinary sex.

(By the way, every single time I have read about a cheater swearing on someone's grave, or swearing on someone's life, it has turned about to be a lie. Every. Single. Time. "I swear on the lives of our children, I didn't do it!!! I swear on the grave of my dear departed Grammy!!!!" I must have read about cheaters swearing like that about 20 times, and it's always turned out to be a lie. I consider it to be a part of the cheater's script.)

I spoke with her last night. She wanted to talk about planning a trip for our anniversary. I asked her if she spoke with the OM about ending it. She said she didn't that she didn't have time. I asked her again,"so your telling me you didn't meet, talk, or text yesterday". Yes she said. I told i find it hard to believe they didn't. I don't want to give up my source of info. Then she said would I rather she lie to me and say something like,"We met at the a local restaurant in the city and made out after work," I told her thank you for telling me the truth, and she said no that wasn't true but she could make something like that up.

I said actually that sounds true to me. I said i know you haven't stopped with him so as of now there's no point planning anything for us. I'm choosing not to share you with him so as of now it's just you and me as parents raising our kids. Not husband and wife. I told her i needed to move in a different direction. She asked what that meant. I said it means i'm planning my life and kids life as if she's not there.

If or when she ends it we could talk about reconciling if it wasn't too late. I told her don't worry about sneaking around with him i know. I know you met today, i know you're having sex with him. Which then she flipped out on me saying she never did. She was shouting at me saying my time for talking was over, and she would never have sex with him. Why don't i believe her. She said she never planned on leaving the family for this guy. She was hoping to end it/wind it down before i found out. But, never did she intend to leave me.

Then she said if i am saying we are over, why should she bother. She said she needed hope that she could come back and save our marriage. She said she is going through a midlife crisis right now and needs me to help her. I asked her why she deleted messages today. She lied at first and then said she just can't bear for me to see them. She said she's getting home earlier @ night now. The OM wanted to go out to dinner last night after work but she told him no. Wasn't that a start she said. I told her why can't she end it tonite on the phone while i listen cause why should i believe she is going to end it in person.

She said in a perfect world that's what would happen. She said she needs time to talk with him and she needs his help to get through this. I told her what if he doesn't want to stop. I told her he just wants to fuck you he's not going to stop. She said she needs him to understand it can't work and stop pursuing her as it is bad for both of them. She said she needs to do in person. I told her that's fine but you've made your choice for now. You have chosen him over me and our kids. We didn't talk after that.

I didn't sleep any last night, and i wasn't in our room. This morning before she left she just said goodbye and asked if i would still be home with kids tonite when she gets in. Meaning were we leaving her.

Finally, if for whatever reason she ends it with him, and we try reconciling how do i ever get over that she slept with him and did other sexual things with him. Seriously, how does anyone reconcile from this?

This is really hard for me. I'm dying right now on the inside. She was my wife and my best friend. She was someone who always had my back. Sorry for the long post.

[This message edited by Luke at 11:19 AM, September 2nd (Tuesday)]

She said in a perfect world that's what would happen, but she is planning on Thur or Fri to go out to lunch with him, and explain. She said she needs time to talk with him and she needs his help to get through this. I told her what if he doesn't want to stop. I told her he just wants to fuck you he's not going to stop. She said she needs him to understand it can't work and stop pursuing her as it is bad for both of them. She said she needs to do in person. I told her that's fine but you've made your choice for now. You have chosen him over me and our kids. We didn't talk after that.

The above is such bull shit it is sickening. She is meeting him to try to figure out how they can continue and go underground.

The next time she tells you they have not had sex, you tell her you do not believe her and that you will schedule a lie detector test to verify that she is telling you the truth. She will freak out and that will be your confirmation that she is lying.

Luke, go to the attorney's office and prepare the divorce papers. In your case, I WOULD let her know you have done that because she is disrespecting you in the worst possible way by lying to you again.

This lunch meeting is NOT about ending it. She could have done that on the telephone. And if she stays in that job, it will not end at all.

Now you don't talk to her about anything but kids and finances.

You are at war my friend and this lying, cheating, cowardly slut that has taken over your wife is the enemy. THE ENEMY.

Read my threads.

You must act quickly and with intent. Either she will break down and show true remorse and try to reconcile or she won't. Either way, she won't do it without consequences.

Time to nut up. See a lawyer. Don't fuck around, start divorce proceedings.

She is trying to put this on you by saying "If we're done, why should I bother?" She has to try to convince herself that she is not an abhorrent human being by blaming you if the marriage fails.

Fuck her. SHE IS YOUR ENEMY. Don't tell her anything. She'll know you've seen a lawyer soon enough.

You've already seen that Badhurt and Bigger know what they're talking about. Let them (and us) guide you. You are a man, and you are at war.

ETA: By the way, this mid-life crisis bullshit is enough to make me go fucking postal. It's a complete load of horse shit. I was in the same shitty relationship and we are the same age. If I hear this mid-life crisis line again someone might get hurt!

[This message edited by ChangeMaker at 7:38 AM, August 20th (Wednesday)]

She said in a perfect world that's what would happen, but she is planning on Thur or Fri to go out to lunch with him, and explain

^^^^^

This is total disrespect to you and the marriage. If she wants the marriage, NC immediately. She's feeding you a major line of bullshit. Her actions and her words do not match.

Personally, I'd give her an ultimatum...any more communication, the marriage is over. No wiggle room. No texting, calling, and no meetups.

Have you outed her to her family/friends?

One question. If i can get audio/video of her with this guy at work or outside making out or talking sexually with each other should i show that to her to make her see i've seen it all? Whether a PI or bug i don't know just thinking.

I mean i just want her to know that i know. I know what she is doing, and i can see and hear it. Maybe she would feel that. I don't know.

That being said i am going to see my attorney this Friday. She said she wants him to help her through it . My god. The only thing this fucker wants to help her wife is getting her clothes off.

Also, should i tell her Mom,siblings. They have great influence on her. Thoughts?

[This message edited by Luke at 8:16 AM, August 20th (Wednesday)]

So ..."She said in a perfect world that's what would happen, but she is planning on Thur or Fri to go out to lunch with him, and explain. She said she needs time to talk with him and she needs his help to get through this."

My friend, if you buy this, well then, you know I've got some prime bottom-land that you might be interested in buying as well. It's going for a song.

You know she is with him. She is telling you that. I am guessing you are monitoring her today like yesterday.

You will see how seriously she took the conversation this morning by what she does tonight. She will either come home directly and try to bull shit you some more, or she will go to dinner with him and tell you it was your fault for threatening her.

Like, you have got to be strong here. Unless you caught tem in hotel seeing them together in public does not tell you anything unless they are making out in car.

Tonight you give her one more opportunity to end it with you present . She will refuse. Then you tell her you are scheduling two appointments. One for the lie detector and two for the attorney and you suggest she secure an attorney

It is my opinion, others may disagree , that virus time to take off the gloves and make it real for her. From what you have said to her, unless she is stupid, she had to know at least you are considering filing so no need to keep that secret anymore .

My guess is she will keep the lunch date as far out as possible to keep stringing you along and give herself more time. Do not let her do that

Bro, if she wanted to be with you and fix the damage SHE HAS CAUSED she would not need to see OM ever again. This whole "closure" bullshit is just that, bullshit. Its a desperate attempt at eating cake. And from the sound of your conversation with your WW she is at the desperate stage. She is going to try and plead her case, talk you into going along with her insanity, and basically have you allow her to see OM yet again. You do know that if you allow this it is never going to end, don't you ? Best you stay the course and your ground. The only thing a WS can understand is hard truth and consequences. You fuck another guy, I file for D. Period end of story. Her next acts of desperation are going to be anger, vileness, mockery and rage. She is going to try and bully you into backing down. she will demean you manhood, flaunt OM in your face, use whatever threats and actions she can think of to get you to back off etc. This is the most dangerous stage and you must protect yourself from false allegations including DV and other means of silencing you. A VAR is a good start in protecting yourself, so is limiting your alone time with her. Try and have a 3rd party around as a witness when interacting with her. Turn the VAR on when alone with her at all times. Sometimes getting the truth out helps in keeping her from spreading stories about you. I personally regret that I kept my XWW sordid secrets to myself early on. In doing so I gave her the opportunity to spread many rumors about me. I give this advice because my XWW who I never in a million years thought would cheat turned out to be a multiple offender. When cornered and could not lie her way out of things she resorted to having me arrested on a false DV charge. She then spread some really horrible rumors about me through our social circles. All the while I sat there like a chump taking it. If took me literally years to restore my good name and tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees I may add. Bottom line is not to think they are past doing anything. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. You cant go wrong with that thinking. Best of luck to you.

Hey Luke,

should i tell her Mom,siblings. They have great influence on her.

My opinion is YES!!! This will put more pressure on her.

Your wife is an alien being right now. Needs help from OM to end the A?!? Are you kidding me? That is infuriating!!

Shine the light of day on what she is doing.

Also, as far as getting video/images to prove that you know, how about just saying that you know what she has done? That you have irrefutable proof....and say that she needs to end it and come clean to you 100%.

Take care.

E.

Luke, have you confronted OM? I mean called him at work and informed him that if he continues to have any contact with your wife whatsoever, you will have absolutely no choice but to contact their HR Dept?

Yes, inform her family.

I know your wife needs to make the decision to stop living in this fantasyland, but if the OM feels his job might be in jeopardy, he might just pull the plug himself, and your wife just might be able to pull her head out of her a$$.

Just a thought.

She said she needs him to understand it can't work and stop pursuing her as it is bad for both of them.

This is all BS!

That is crap, that she needs to tell him to stop pursuing her. SHE is the one letting him pursue her. She is doing everything in this world to have the OM believe there is a green light to pursue her.

She needs you to help her, another total lie. Help her only as long as she agrees to what you do to help her. What that really means is she needs you to say it is okay to go out with him all of the time.

Then she said would I rather she lie to me and say something like,"We met at the public library in the city and made out after work,

I used to hear that crap all of the time, would I rather hear a lie to make me feel better. Amazing how a WS will lie as in minimize and say it was not to hurt us, and then they say would you rather I lie and said we had sex to make you feel better. Amazing amount of bullcrap and so common.

99% of the time it means they did have sex and are going to again as long as you let her.

I wish you had not confronted her last night. She is fully aware you are reading texts.

Your wife is now giving you the crap about well if its over then why stop the affair.

DO NOT confront her anymore. Everything you say can and will be used against in one way or another. Or you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

It would have been better to hit her with everything at one time. It would be best not to say things like I am only here for the kids. That just gives her more rationalizations in her mind to continue the affair.

Also, by confronting her last night, you might never know for sure if they had sex, only guess without proof.

You have to hire a PI and or put a VAR in the car. Or you can watch them on Friday.

What you should do now actually is tell her, NO MORE talking with him. There is nothing to discuss. Explain to your wife she has now been caught in lie after lie after lie.

She tells you things like she wanted to end it before you found out, that is another huge lie. Because you now found out and she has no inclination to end it.

What is needed is immediate NC and are to hear her say those words to him. Because this thing about her having to tell him he cannot pursue her anymore is just total BS.

When in reality, the SOB should never have been pursuing a married woman in the first place.

ETA:

Luke, have you confronted OM? I mean called him at work and informed him that if he continues to have any contact with your wife whatsoever, you will have absolutely no choice but to contact their HR Dept?

Your wife is telling your stuff like she needs your help ( I heard that crap also) and that she needs to tell this OM it is not okay to pursue her. Well then, to a logical mind, that means she needs you to help her make this guy stop pursuing her.

[This message edited by craig2001 at 9:03 AM, August 20th (Wednesday)]

Read, then reread strongers post. XW did the same to me.

Regarding telling her family? I'll lay dollars to donuts that she has already begun to lay the groundwork about what an evil man you are. Get it out now. Tell them who he is, don't reveal your sources.

If i can get audio/video of her with this guy at work or outside making out or talking sexually with each other should i show that to her to make her see i've seen it all?

Nah, only if YOU need more proof. She knows everything she's done. YOU don't need to prove it to her at all. Just tell her you know.

Strength

You don't have to prove anything to her. You want her to know you know? You do know. Keep her wondering how. SHE IS YOUR ENEMY, keeping her off balance is good for you.

You're getting good advice here. Put up yer dukes boy, your in a fight. Either for your marriage or for your divorce, but you are in a fight.

You're probably gonna have moments of weakness and flip-flopping, that's normal. Come here and post when you do. Don't go to her, she doesn't give a fuck about you right now. Don't show her when you're feeling weak.

You are doing great so far. Keep making the decisions. She doesn't get a say right now.

You're getting good advice here. Put up yer dukes boy, your in a fight. Either for your marriage or for your divorce, but you are in a fight.

I completely agree with this.

And this is one reason to stop confronting her on little things, because all you will get is lies and denials. For your own sanity in the future, I do believe you will need proof for yourself as to whether or not she ever had sex.

Just something to keep in mind. Most I think would agree knowing is far better than wondering.

Then she said if i am saying we are over, why should she bother. She said she needed hope that she could come back and save our marriage. She said she is going through a midlife crisis right now and needs me to help her.

Many of us have heard this line and MANY more from our own waywards. It's all manipulative blameshifting. MLC is one of the "excuses" they use a rationalization for their disgusting behavior. The wayward figures if the reason for their A can be clinically defined, then it really isn't their fault it happened. "See, I was just temporarily bat-shit crazy! Don't blame me. Blame my MLC!" There's the healthy way of re-prioritzing one's life, then there's the "Hall Pass from life and its responsibility" approach. Your WW's biggest issue is poor boundaries. No matter what, having an A is a choice. She let it the A happen and she CHOSE to pursue it further.

Thus, ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THIS IS ON YOU. SHE OWNS THIS SHIT 100% IN FULL. So like Stronger8 says, prepare for the blameshift and manipulation shit storm the likes you have never experienced before. Your WW's only defense against the truth is full on denial. There isn't anything that the OM has better on you and it isn't even about that ass-clown at all. It's about the addiction to the A that she is defending.

Know this - Actions speak louder and more true than mere words. Observe her actions as they will be the only thing you can rely on from her along with any other tools at your disposal to monitor her communication with the OM. I would use Badhurt's approach to taking action with the seeing a lawyer and having her ass served with D papers (ideally at her work), then take Bigger's advice on how you communicate and act around your WW from that point forward. I would only add don't mention seeing an attorney and when you are filing to your WW at all.

You say you don't know if you can stay with her if you have proof that PA has actually occured. I and many of us completely understand. If anything, she will owe you a complete timeline of the A and as much detail as you need to make that determination. You can better determine from that information if you want to stay or not. I was a full on "any affair is a dealbreaker" person, but my XW had a small window of opportunity to come clean and at least show me she was going in the right direction and convince me otherwise. She pissed all over that chance. So first things first, the objective is to blow up the A, then kick your WW off that cake-eating fence and see which side she tries to jump to. If it is your side, then you make those demands on her for R, get the timeline from her and as much truth of the A as possible, then decide if you still want to stay in the M or not. Either way you choose, we all support you. If she chooses the OM, then you already have a head start on your life without her with the D being filed.

I told her that's fine but you've made your choice for now. You have chosen him over me and our kids.

This was perfectly worded except the inclusion of "for now". She simply made her decision. Act accordingly. Protect yourself.

Hi Luke, you're getting so much great advice and I think you're also doing the right things. I don't have anything to add except I really agree that the VAR and PI and lie detector would be good things to throw in. Plus having more solid proof of the affair and that it was PA might be a factor in case you're divorcing?

I had a thought when I was reading what your cheating wife said to her excuse. She needs help from you, from the male-slut and from who else? It reminds me so much of my cheating husband, he always was the 'poor victim' and I was always the helper. Is this a common pattern that 'helper' type spouses are cheated on more often? Maybe because our cheating spouses get the vibe that they can do this to us? They might never have dared to cheat if we had been firmer, more selfish and less altruistic and tending to their needs?