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My wife of 8 years, mother of my 2 young children, has been having hotel laisons with a man when I thought she was on girls nights out.

It would seem I found out quickly, she wasn't great at hiding it. It was a handful of encounters over 6 weeks. Nonetheless, I am devastated. The woman I married was loving, selfless and adored me as much as I her. Yet, almost overnight my world has come crashing down. The woman I trusted implicitly without question did the unthinkable.

Once caught, there has been many tears on both sides. My wife always scorned cheaters and said herself she never thought she could be one. However it just happened and she was apparently swept away in it.

Now, I find myself in a weird position. I would expect asking forgiveness etc but it has not happened. Instead she seems somewhat more upset at herself and scalding herself. She has apologised of course many times, she said i have been a perfect husband and could have done nothin different.

However, she is saying she doesn't know how it got to a point where this could happen. She now questions if she is still in love with me and if we should separate. She said any time in the past any people trying it on were immediately turned away, the fact this guy wasnt must mean she no longer has the same feelings.

it sounds to me that she is mixing up love and excitment. we have 2 boys 5, 3 and one has special needs. 2 days after discover she doesnt know what she wants, im in a limbo where she is deciding to stay or go.

Now, i dont want my kids home wrecked, my autistic son would have real coping issues, as would i!

I feel i shouldn't be sitting here awaiting the fate of my family. She should be the one waiting to see if this can be fixed. If it werent for the kids, this limbo period would be enough to just end it as I'm in agony.

[This message edited by generic at 12:46 PM, November 19th (Wednesday)]

That is rough. Sorry.

Your story is similar to mine. It sad she doesn't know what she wants. I would think about a short term separation to see if that changes her mind.

Don't even fathom improving the marriage unless she shows complete commitment that she wants the marriage.

Generic,

Sorry for your pain. A few more details might help with advice you get.

(1) She did not hide it well. How did you catch her

(2) Who is OM and how did she meet him. work, or really on Girls Night Out.

(3) Who if any, were the enablers covering for her if any

It sounds like she is really not remorseful but regretful that you caught her. The not being sure that she is in love with you anymore is her defense mechanism to justify in her mind what she did.

You need to see an attorney asap, and let her know you are doing it. She must be knocked off the fence of not knowing if she wants to continue her fun single life or not, or she will keep you in the dark and wondering.

You will get a lot of comments recommending 180. That is for you, not to win her back, and right now I do not think you should detach until you get a more clear picture of which was this is going.

You need all the details, NC with the AP, and total transparancy of anything she has that is electronic. if she refuses that, she will continue to cheat on you. and is not interested in being married anymore.

You MUST not tell her how much you love her and want to forgive her. it sounds strange but that is the absolute worst message you can convey right now.

Take a deep breath and try tto stay strong. You will not "nice her back"

Hi generic. So sorry you find yourself here. A lot of what you are seeing is classic wayward behavior. She does not want to give up the A, the fantasy, and all the "good" feelings that came with that. An A is very addictive so it's extremely difficult for them to come out of their fog. So a lot of what you are hearing like

Instead she seems somewhat more upset at herself and scalding herself.

is regret at getting caught. Not true remorse. There is a big difference and often true remorse doesn't come until much later. And this

She now questions if she is still in love with me and if we should separate. She said any time in the past any people trying it on were immediately turned away, the fact this guy wasnt must mean she no longer has the same feelings.

typically means they want to have their cake and eat it too. Separating is a way for them to be able to continue the A without your watchful eye. This is a typical fence sitting move. You need to force her off the fence. How do you do that? Well...that is going to be one of the hardest things you have ever had to do. You need to show her consequences for her actions which I'll get to in a minute.

First, you need to start to employ the 180 for yourself. The 180 is a tool designed for you to detach and get yourself into a better head space. Very hard to do. This is not a tactic to win her back. This is for you to get yourself mentally stronger so that you can start to get yourself out of infidelity. That should be your #1 goal here. Get out of infidelity.

If she wants to separate, fine. Pack her bags. There's only 1 of you in the marriage if that's what she wants. That does not make an M. Let her be the one to leave. The only way to save your M is to let go of the outcome. She just hopped up on the fence with this statement as many many of the WS's have here. Kick her off. Tell her that you are getting out of infidelity and if that means her leaving, tell her you will help pack her shit. She needs to see these consequences of her actions. Tell her that you want to fight for the M but you won't do it the second she walks away or continues the A in any way. Be strong. Decisive. Show that you are willing to let it all go so that you can have a better life because you are worth more than an open M.

Suddenly if she wants to stay, fine. Boundaries and consequences. Put them in place. Compose and send a NC (no contact letter). Is her AP (affair partner) a work colleague? If so she will need to get out of her job.

Gently, you both need to get tested for STDs regardless of what happens here. Especially you. Most A's protection is not used no matter how much they swear up and down it was. There have been several that have come through here only to find that they had an STD later. Don't let that be you.

Contact a lawyer asap. There are rules in most states regarding separation and the legal ramifications of who leaves the house. Please don't you be the one to move out if you do S. This could have huge ramifications on you. Regardless of any decisions you need to educate yourself with a lawyer on what your state laws are and what would happen if this thing goes south in a hurry. Just by seeing a lawyer does not mean you have to file. HOWEVER, you may want to file anyway and start the clock ticking. I have seen this time and time again knock the WS off the fence. Make her decide one way or the other instead of torturing you and your kids with I don't know what I want. Let her know if you do serve her that it can be stopped at any time as long as she is willing to put in the hard work to heal you, the kids, and herself.

However, she is saying she doesn't know how it got to a point where this could happen. She now questions if she is still in love with me and if we should separate. She said any time in the past any people trying it on were immediately turned away, the fact this guy wasnt must mean she no longer has the same feelings.

This ^^^^ is noise but it will happen again if she doesn't get to the bottom of her selfish behavior. She will be repeat offender if she doesn't figure out why she thought this was acceptable to do to you and your kids. You should make IC for her part of any of your demands to recover the M.

What about the OBS (other betrayed spouse)? You should notify her or the significant other. She has a right to know. They will also help to be able to keep an eye on the A from their side. Once your WW's AP has consequences on his side, see how fast he throws your WW under the bus.

Show her consequences to her A. That will help snap her out of her fog. Here are some threads and articles to get you started here on SI:

You can find most of the abbreviations here in the upper left corner in the Healing Library. Please check that section out.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/library.asp

read up on the 180 so that you can decide if you want to use it later. It is designed for you to detach and can be found under BS FAQ here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

And more 180 info under the target thread here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

I would also recommend reading these target threads in the Just Found Out forum:

Tactical Primer

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Great Posts for Newbies to Read

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740

Boundaries and Consequences 101 for all new BS

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

Before You Say Reconcile...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

For the newly betrayed

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=535178

For the foggy, unremorseful, cake eaters:

20/20 Hindsight: What I should have done when I J F O

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=446349

Please read these as well as prep for any sort of upcoming confrontation that you may have with your WS:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/no_contact.asp

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/boundaries.asp

Recovery Plan:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961

Calling all BSs...:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=514479

Choosing an IC/MC:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=544948

Very sorry you are here Generic but we are here for you. Happy you found us. Keep reading. Keep posting.

yop

She now questions if she is still in love with me and if we should separate. She said any time in the past any people trying it on were immediately turned away, the fact this guy wasnt must mean she no longer has the same feelings.

We've seen this justification before. A WS proclaiming that having an A must mean their feelings for the BS has changed. However, that approach makes it more about the BS than the WS.

Supposing your feelings changed for your SO. That does not justify lying and breaking vows. You either fix the problem or end the M. It isn't that easy but it is that simple.

Again I think this is less a reflection of her feelings for you as her BH than it is her own immaturity and self-indulgence. Relationships take work, commitment and dedication. If she applies none of these things then of course her feelings will change. However, it is up to her to fix this.

You need to 180 her and see a lawyer. While it is possible she might find remorse and pursue R it is not likely imho.

You should NOT under any circumstances try to woo her or "nice" her back.

She broke it. You do not have the power to fix it. You can choose to accept her request for R if/when she sincerely wants it.

If I were you I'd assume this is heading to D based on what she has said at this point. I'd be concerned that any attempt to change her mind will only result in her pulling further away. You have to do the hardest thing of all at this point and let go of the outcome.

I am sorry for your pain. She is playing I don't know how it came to this, so I must not love you card. This plays on your fears. Now, you are waiting on HER deciding what happens next whether to stay or go. She is controlling the situation.

We all get knocked down by infidelity. We lose our bearings. We are at a disadvantage dealing with an A. The WS knew when the M changed, when A started, stepping away and out of the M. We the trusting souls get blindsided. She had a head start dealing with the changes you are just learning about. Give yourself some time and space to absorb all this. Realize though, you can make choices and decisions that will affect your future. It isn't all in her hands.

She should be begging for forgiveness. Doing everything in her power to EARN the gift of reconciliation. She should be giving you decent explanations about what was going on. She isn't doing that. She is sorry she was caught, but not willing to do much to comfort and heal YOU and the M.

Do the 180 for you. It isn't meant to change or manipulate her. It is for YOU to detach and get stronger so you can deal with this crisis and emotional upheaval.

[This message edited by momentintime at 1:41 PM, November 19th (Wednesday)]

Just to add a little extra detail first. She met this man on a girls night out, he's her friends brother. They have been in the same company often over the years, however it has only just become this.

Unfortunately, I have already said to her that I want to try and fix this, I have said it will take work and not be easy, yet been left hanging while she decides. It appears I already broke the big rule.

I will read 180 though. It has got to a point where I am trying to hang this al together for the kids. Sure i love her but this additional "do i love you" shit on the back of the affair has really annoyed me to the point I would give it up. I came from a broken home and really dont want that for my boys though.

One of her friends were covering for her. lying that they were together etc

I caught her initially because at 2am she wasnt home, I got worried and for some out of the blue reason used LTE to track her phone. She was at a hotel. I confronted her, she denied it and made me feel pretty shit over the accusation.

Later on, her story had cracks that bothered me so I dug around. Found proof her story was a lie. Also then found the following week she had been at a different hotel on her girls night out. So i confronted her again. She admitted it.

It appears I already broke the big rule.

So did many of us. This is a huge emotional event that makes the brain spin for quite some time, so it is rare for anyone to not make some mistakes. It is ok and is totally recoverable. I'm so sorry that you are here and having to deal with everything, but everyone here understands and wants to help.

You are early in the process. Read whatever you can on this site to help you get your bearings and understand how a WS's illogic and falsehoods work. Also take care of yourself -- eat, stay hydrated and try to get rest.

In particular, the other posts are dead on -- she is fencesitting and working the "Do I love you?"/"I don't know what I want" statements hoping that you will wait around and/or do the "pick me!" dance while she can continue to be involved with the OM. Please don't continue to allow yourself to be manipulated and used. She knows exactly what she wants and has made a choice to try and keep the OM but also full access to the kids, the house, finances, etc. That shouldn't be a valid option, so remove it from the table. Either she can go NC (both with the OM and the friend who helped her conduct an A), be honest, allow transparency and go to IC/MC in an attempt to R or she is out of the marriage with all of the benefits that she hopes to hold on to.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 2:20 PM, November 19th (Wednesday)]

Yeah. She's definitely resentful that she got caught. She's most likely way in the fog. You can still knock her off the fence even if you told her you want to R. Tell her now YOU are not so sure...because how can you be if she's pulling this separation shit. You are her plan B.

So put the consequences of her actions into full effect.

One of her friends were covering for her. lying that they were together etc

Friend has to go if you are going to try and work on things. She is not a friend to the marriage. She's not a friend to your kids or your family unit either. This has to be a condition in order to recover your M that she has to go. As long as your WW remains friends with her, your M will always be in jeopardy.

I don't see how recovering the M is possible at the moment since she's tried to separate. Knock her off the fence. Make her really uncomfortable with her actions.

What else do you know about her AP? Does he have a BS or an SO? Contact them immediately if so. Contact a lawyer asap. Get tested for STDs. Set up a meeting with your WW to start discussing finances and what that will look like if you separate. Talk about schedules for child custody. Most importantly, get your kids into IC once the S starts to happen. You are coparents so start to discuss this now. Let her see that her fantasy world is destroying the family too.

yop

Generic

So it looks like you are saying that even after her second hotel meeting that you caught she admitted it and continued to meet this guy.! You said a handful of times. If she blatantly kept doing this after she admitted what she was doing you need to present her with D papers asap.

Not sure why you would have not taken some action before it went on after second hotel if you knew what was going on.

And I hope you are not going to say she is still going out wit this girlfriend to bars .

You better make it clear to her there are not going to be three people in this marriage and she can forget about deciding if that is what she wants.

Head her for divorce and reverse the power she has. Your kids are too young for you to put up with this until they are 18

Sorry you are dealing with this betryal.

As many others have said your WW is justifying her behavior. That whole line of I'm not sure I love you is BS.

She is lying about the Affair it has been longer and more than what she has told you.

Go see a lawyer and protect yourself and your kids.

It was a handful of encounters over 6 weeks.

hmmmm, most of here will tell you not to believe everything the wayward spouse tells you completely.

Things tend to get minimized, left out, or lied about. You would not be the first to find out it had been going on for much longer, or with more than one. Don't give up on more searching. You need complete cell phone records for a year, credit card statements, do a credit report to see if there are accounts you don't know about, look around for little presents that you didn't give her, things that look out of place that before were insignificant may mean something else. Search everywhere, closets, car, clothes, shoes, etc.

I hope you don't find anything else, but expect the worst. Never reveal your sources.

THanks for all the info, I have a lot to digest. To clarify one point, as far as I know, the 2 hotel encounters are the only 2. There was lots of social media/SMS etc.

She has cleared all her messages etc so hard to get any proof now. the other guy has a wife who contacted me saying he paniced and admitted the affair to her. Although he actually left her last week (well, she kicked him out as was suspicious)

He also has kids, but seems to be known for trying it on with woman. I guess he cheats his wife a lot.

Wife thinks she has feelings for him,i got reading to do!!

Generic

Your wife should be reading the divorce papers you should serve her....

I am all for R.

But it takes two willing spouses. Yours is not.

She is in limbo.

How do you end limbo?

1. You server her. No separation. Straight to divorce. Why? Because she would use the separation to continue her cheating.

2. You announce to her family, friends and coworkers why you are divorcing? Because your wife cheated with her friend/coworkers brother. She opened up your marriage without asking you.

3. You risk your marriage because until your wife knows your serious she will sit on the fence as long as she can.

4. She gets therapy. Many marriages with special needs children end in divorce.

She needs a good shrink to figure out what she wants.

Give her the items listed above and limbo will end.

HM

She now questions if she is still in love with me and if we should separate.

That means the affair continues and or she wants it to continue.

I would suggest talking to a lawyer right away to find out all the answers to all of your questions.

Keep track of everything she does and where she goes. If she is so sorry, she needs to prove it.

So far she has done nothing but give you lame excuses and cop outs for her actions, she has not shown remorse or taken responsibility.

Why is she always going out drinking and staying out all hours if she has three kids at home. Something is way off with her.

Do not let her separate and leave, and if she does, she has abandoned the family. Others here can discuss the legal issues of that. But do not kick her out whatever you do.

It sounds to me like she needs to grow up and stop the going out all hours. Make her affair as miserable for her as possible. DO not let her lie to you. Continue to check her whereabouts at all times.

If she really is sorry and she really wonders how she let this happen, than she needs to go to IC or therapy, that is the only way she is going to know.

BTW, did you ask her why she deleted all the messages, she had no right to do that and she has no rights to lie to you.

About not being sure if she loves you or not: This is not uncommon, especially in cheaters who hate cheating. The reasoning goes something like this: "I would never cheat, not in a million years. I hate cheating and I hate cheaters. But I cheated. Why would I cheat if I hate cheaters and I hate cheating? It must be my husband's fault (your wife skipped this one, but I wouldn't be surprised if it re-surfaced) and/or I must not be 'in love' with my husband anymore. It can't be me, because I normally would never cheat."

Feelings for other man: I kind of doubt that she just slept with him right off the bat. He probably saw her on numerous occasions and worked his game. He was exciting, illicit, not like the boring and very arduous tasks at home with finances, kids, autism issues, work, etc. If he was experienced at this type of thing, it probably was pretty easy for him to figure out exactly what to do and say to be everything you were not. This is not a bad reflection on you in any way. For example, to be a stable good provider excludes you also being wild, reckless and dangerous, although those traits can be attractive to a woman, they typically are not what relationships and stable families are built upon.

As far as initially being sorry and now not so much, saying she has feelings for him: Well, at first she thought he would return to his wife, therefore unavailable, therefor make an attempt to mend fences with you; now, it looks like he might be available, and maybe she wants to give him a shot at the title. Don't be surprised if what comes next is that she "needs time and space" to herself to figure things out (meaning "I need to see if other man might be the magical answer to my non-exciting family life).

If you make yourself too available, she will take you for granted. I believe this is human nature to a degree, we really don't appreciate fully what we have until we lose it, or are about to lose it (as you feel now); she probably doesn't feel as if she is about to lose you, so she still can take you for granted.

Just some thoughts for you to consider.

Don't beat yourself up. The first few weeks suck. Much of what you've been doing is emotionally based. We've all been there. I'm 5 months out from DDay and the ONLY reason my WW and I are R is that SHE is working on the issues she needs to deal with that lead her to stray. Yes, I have things I'm working on, too. But you, no BS's, are responsible for the WS straying. It is a conscious choice they made. If you can find a good MC, good for you. As for believing everything she says, don't right now. There will be more TT's coming out - just the way it is. Do the best you can to take care of yourself hour by hour. Not easy, but it can be done. The dust will settle and then you'll have an inkling of what to do next.

My wife came home today and said she wants to try and fix our marriage. No 180 required it seems.

I suppose step 2 for me now is to lay down the rules I need set to get this moving...

No 180 required it seems.

I suppose step 2 for me now is to lay down the rules I need set to get this moving...

Hmmmm, here's the thing. What has she *shown* you to prove that it's *safe* to try R?

She sure has *said* a lot though. How much of it do you believe and why.

The 180 is for you and you alone. It will give you some distance so that the forest becomes visible in spite of the trees.

This will be a marathon brother, not a sprint. 2-5 years regardless of D or R.

BTW, welcome to the best club no one ever wants to join.

Strength

My wife came home today and said she wants to try and fix our marriage. No 180 required it seems.

I suppose step 2 for me now is to lay down the rules I need set to get this moving...

Hmmm.....

Don't get into too big of a hurry. And don't show too much eagerness to reconcile.

I suspect the AP has thrown her under the bus because he is going back to his wife. And your WW has realized she wasn't quite so "special".

You would be wise to make her work for your willingness to reconcile.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 5:53 PM, November 19th (Wednesday)]