SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

They say to wait six months to a year before you make any serious changes.

This is probably the worst piece of somewhat common advice that is given on this site, by the way. File for divorce as soon as possible. Extract yourself from the cheater and move on with your life. You wouldn't wait 6 months to a year to see if a tumor starts playing nice with your prostate, so why would you do that with a cancerous person in your life?

UAB,

You need to settle down a bit and be yourself as much as you can muster.

Understand that the hurt she has caused you, some day a new person will make it all up to you. Consider that someday you will look into the eyes of your new soulmate and be happy again.

Maybe that new person is your wife. Keep that in mind, the investment you have with her. She just might some day regret her choices and not be the bitch that she is now. Its a possibility.

Your wife is basically a drug addict. Mine was. She was as addicted to the affair as yours. Now she has been sober for some time, and she works so hard to heal me after it all. But in the end it is love and strength that endure.

You are her husband. Remain strong as you have shown, it is upon you to stand steady like a rock. I think you have done so. You are the beacon that is truth in her life and she just might see that again. Just keep that option open my friend.

I'm amazed at your ability to stay focused on what's right for you. I just want make sure you know it's ok, and recommended to solely focus on you right now...and not the end result, a divorce.

I strongly disagree with the opinion that your WW fell out of love with you years ago and is just using you to raise her son. You have no proof of that, its just conjecture. From everything you have described you had a happy relationship up until the affair. One that you truly loved being in. If you are not careful you may end up being the one that burns all the bridges. Yes, I know she was the one that cheated, but if you refuse to respond to anything at all, then there is no way to R.

Most of us here were in the same boat as you, with regards to how fricking nuts our wayward was during their A. They blamed us, lied, projected, minimized, and on and on. Your wife is doing the same things. And many of us here today are with our wayward, trying to work through this crap now. Once they got their head out of their ass (the fog), and realized how much they lost, and how much they wanted to repair the damage and fight for us, that was when many of us decided if it was worth it or not, to give them a chance.

They say to wait six months to a year before you make any serious changes. Your emotions are likely to change from day to day, sometimes minute to minute. Give yourself the time to absorb all that's happened. You may find you want something different months down the road, and if she's changed her behavior completely.

Right now, you're doing amazing. You're beyond strong. Keep insisting on the respect you deserve. And if in the future, you decide to attempt to work things out with a truly remorseful WW, that takes immense strength too.

I just want to make sure you're doing what's right for you. We here know you deserve decency and respect and honesty. We don't however, know where your heart is, and where your future should be. That's completely up to you.

I wish you peace and good days ahead...

This ^^^^^

If you do eventually want to R, I would think long and hard about your current course. The majority of the advice you have been given is strongly and aggressively pro divorce, almost to a frenzy. You are following that advice to the T, and its where you will end up.

Funnily enough I am usually pro D, but from the way you describe the last 11 years this is one case that I think may actually be a successful reconciliation. If R is something you may be open to, make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot.

Crazily enough, I'd entertain the notion of R.

I don't crave D.

I'm all over the map.

I've been hoping 180 would give me space and clarity.

I think right now even saying you'd entertain R is a pain and a variable that you can't introduce. I'd personally take R off of the board given the amount of disrespect she has shown you. At this point it's not even the affair.

You seem to be the guy who operates well when he has something to work towards but when multiple paths are introduced it can get slugger.

It's not saying you couldn't get back together one day, but my (respectful) disagreement about R is based more on your own emotional happiness and sanity than anything else. The long and the short of it is that she has don't too much damage to unwind it without you healing completely first. It's probably a moot point. She's still with him so what's the point

Filing for divorce immediately is probably the best way to reconcile with an unrepentant wayward.

Focus on yourself. If you stay strong, and make sure you end up ok through all of this, either you'll be alone and doing find, or she'll look at the mess get life is in, then look at where you are, and come running back.

She isn't interested in R, which requires remorse splashing out of the buckets as approaches you.

Her willingness to blame you for her affair says a great deal about her.

She should record an apology on the VAR. Charge the batteries and send it to you.

Some people really push R. Others really push D. I say so what's best for you. My first WH cheated with at least 75 people over the course of 7 years (6 years dating 1 year married). Eventually he came around and was repentant which is what I had always hoped for. It took 6 months, me filling for divorce and moving out, and finally being happy for him to see the error of his ways. I just knew I could never come back from the level of mistrust, betrayal, and disrespect I'd suffered through. There can be a straw that breaks the camels back. Only you know what that is for you. None of us have to live with the decisions you make. If you truly want to R if/when she emerges from the fog that's up to you. But if you decide that in her fog induced stupor too much has happened no one will fault you for that

[This message edited by AwesomeSauce at 5:16 AM, May 21st (Thursday)]

R is not your call, it is hers!!!!!

When/if she asks for it thekn you decide.

The 180 is for you to be able to look after yourself and distance yourself from a toxic situation.

However bear in mind that if R is even a remote possibility, then continued 180 and crickets can be detrimental in the long run.

R relies on communication in the first instance, without communication neither of you knows where each other stands.

If I were in your situation the first step I would take is to ask;

"Did you break it off with OM? Will there be complete NC with OM? There is little point in talking about other matters between us until this is established"

I believe that people in 'euphoric affair love' can do things that, whilst they appear cruel, heartless and evil to us, it feels normal, right and proper to them. Maybe something to consider??

If I were in your situation the first step I would take is to ask;

"Did you break it off with OM? Will there be complete NC with OM? There is little point in talking about other matters between us until this is established"

I don't think you owe your WW any conversation at this point. You drew your line in the sand and clearly stated the consequences. You MUST follow through with those consequences or she will know she can continue to walk all over you. I wouldn't even bring up the A to her at this point. She KNOWS what she needs to do. You shouldn't hold her hand through this. She's a big girl and makes her own choices. You need to KNOW that any choices she makes are 100% hers and not due to your constant reminders of what she should do. You need her to choose your marriage out of love rather than obligation. For me, I did not want to the together because it was *the right* thing to do.

Is filing for D the finale? Not necessarily. No one has a crystal ball. There are people here that have R'd after D. When their WS woke up!

Keep your word. Don't make empty threats. Follow through. Keep your integrity. Continue IC. R or D YOU will be a better person for it.

This VAR issue is either a non-issue or something you should talk to a lawyer about. IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT STATE YOU ARE IN:

http://www.vegress.com/index.php/can-i-record-calls-in-my-state

Updated to reflect the 2 party consent laws apply to when you record conversations you have with her, not conversations she has with others. Depending----you may still be able to legally record her conversations with others under limited circumstances like home ownership and car ownership surveillance. In any event, be careful, not because she might try to show you as a "bad guy" in any divorce, but to stay away from criminal charges.

[This message edited by crisp at 7:40 AM, May 21st (Thursday)]

unloved, it s normal to have up and down emotions.

However as you stated:

Crazily enough, I'd entertain the notion of R.

I don't crave D.

I'm all over the map.

You are going to have to decide this. You already have an attorney.

We are here to support you. One thing i wont do is tell you to R or D contrary to what you want.

Right now you have taken steps but where are you at with your lawyer?

If you are going to entertain R as you state, then you will have to engage your wife.

Since you have an attorney, I would proceed with D but you can do so while trying reconcile as a divorce can be stopped at any time. I would hate to see you backtrack though.

If you even try to R, she has to play ball.

You cannot will her to, however you can give her conditions and rules to follow that require verification to earn you back. That is what the point is, she has to EARN you back.

If she talks about what she feels or gives excuses beyond her OWNING it 100% (like marriage issues or you) and seeking help for herself as to find what broke inside.

For you to R, you must fix first what broke which is her, then the marriage comes next.

Do that out of order is like fixing the sink with the water still on.

You can be upfront and tell her you are proceeding with divorce until you are satisfied she has done enough work to a point that R is even workable.

The only issue i have is that you already gave her a condition which she broke.

So decide and we are here to help in whatever direction you wish, BUT DON"T get stuck in inaction and never settle.

"The sleeper must awaken."

It was the first condition but not only did she break it, she went to visit her lover that he knew about and likely spent the weekend on a fuckfest bender.

This is not a woman who wants to reconcile.

Call it fog or whatever, but ultimately that's just a silly excuse. She's an adult and at some point needs to make her own bed. And that point was like 800 miles ago by even the most lenient observers.

Lucky2haveme, respectfully I disagree;

We are talking about a very broken, fogged-up wayward here. Expecting someone like that to make sensible, rational decisions can be counter-productive.

Admitting you are wrong is such a vulnerable thing to do, and some people need an olive branch and helping hand before they get it.

Look, everyone here gives advice based on their own experiences and bias.

In my experience with my WW, I saw immediately that she was so broken that she would forever be broken unless I helped. She needed that initial shove, that helping hand, that security blanket to be able to look at herself. She believed she was beyond redemption, was a hopeless case, and all she needed was someone to help point the way, to assure her that she was not alone, that there was something worth fighting for. Had I hard 180'd my WW, as I was told to do when i first posted on here, well, i can tell you that with the knoweledge i have now, I would have lost her, completely and forever.

UAB, only you know your wife, we can only go by what you have said, we dont know the ins and outs of conversations you have had with your WW. Yes initially, most waywards believe the reasons they say for having and affair; I promised to help fix these problems, knowing that the real whys and wherefores would come out and be addressed later. These things are not fixed in a few days, they WILL take months and years.

From reading your WW communications you have posted, she appears to have a problem with being able to trust you, maybe that is something to look into?

I know what I am saying goes against everything you have been told here, but think about this;

Shock and Awe can mean many things,

For my WW, shock and awe was the compassion I showed her, the love for her I displayed and my actions that showed her that I was not like everyone else she had ever known - I would never abandon her.

People do some stupid shit when they are in "puppy love" I know I did. The thing to remember that even grown-ups are susceptable to this and that it is not real love, it can be a mind altering drug type of experience.

All the best, my friend.

[This message edited by AlwaysOnEdge at 8:36 AM, May 21st (Thursday)]

UnlovedAndBroked,

One of my fWW's co-workers married a widow with a newborn boy 16 years ago. Because it was believed it would affect the boy's survivor benefits, there was no adoption, however, to the co-worker and the boy, they are father and son. About two years ago, the co-worker and his wife separated and she now has a 4 month old daughter with her boyfriend. I do not know if there was any infidelity involved in the breakup. There has been no divorce yet.

When they separated, the boy chose to stay with his Dad. He was not happy that his Mom was breaking up the family. This summer Mom, boyfriend, and the baby will be moving two states away. This is the boyfriend's idea. Mom said that the son, now 16, would be coming with them. The co-worker, since he did not adopt his son, does not initially have the legal standing to stop her from taking his son. However, the son (now 16) told his Mom, no way! He will visit, but is staying with Dad! By the way, the son sees the boyfriend only as his Mom's boyfriend, and not in any parental or friend position.

I see parallels with your situation, and hope it turns out the same way for you and your son.

Now for the humor of the situation. The divorce has not been pursued due to a lack of money. I told the co-worker that under state law, and the law of most states, as he was married to the mother when the baby was conceived and born, he is the baby girl's legal father, and the baby's biological father is a legal stranger to her. Furthermore, since Mom has not worked for the last year and a half, if she a boyfriend break up, she could come after him for child support. He could not get CS from her because she has no income. So, co-worker told his estranged wife that he was so happy to have a daughter, and then gave her the explanation. That triggered a scurry of activity. Boyfriend and estranged wife did an Acknowledgement of Paternity, with co-worker's permission, and the divorce is now underway.

Call it fog or whatever, but ultimately that's just a silly excuse.

Yea, FOG is not an excuse but a description of irrational or behavior that would never be in the context of what was once understood of the spouse.

The FOG is really the "addiction" cheaters are addicts. The problem is, many are "Politically correct" with the word as in removing fault. Quite the contrary, it is always self-wrought and for it to end, the addict is the only one who can.

There is never an excuse and that is why she is no where near ready to reconcile, she enjoys the high and it is everyone and everything else to blame for telling her otherwise.

We are all a product of our actions. Some actions are intentional, some are unintentional. But that's who we are.

She took MANY intentional actions to get to a point where one could place the blame on this involuntary fog action. Just like Unloved has taken many actions in life where he turned himself into the type of person who would not have taken those steps.

Another way of looking at it is that not only is she not remoreseful, but she's still the person who is capable of entering into a condition where fog was possible. She's done literally but prove time and time again that she's not the type of person who will ever be adverse to entering into another fog.

Take that and contrast it with another popular thread, Spaceghost007's. While he ultimately, and correctly, took the action which made him whole his wife showed signs that she was willing to create a new person because the previos person was...horrible and broken. There is literally nothing in even one works of these 30 or so pages that would indicate someone who has that kind of self-awareness or desire to reinvent themselves.

I can be wrong, but I'm a pretty good read of people. I also feel somewhat strongly that Unloved needs to completely remove himself from the situation, his soul is too burnt from this and he'll never be right until he's happy with himself. He can't do that embroiled in this shit, even if it was going peachy keen rainbows and sunshine.

I like Freeme response to the VAR if any response at all

What are you talking about? What recorder? I don't know what you are talking about. Sounds to me like OM might have planted it. Don't understand why? Maybe he knows that if they cheat with you they will cheat on you.../quote]

[This message edited by convert at 9:40 AM, May 21st (Thursday)]

being non-emotional is an asset.

In times like these, you have to think with the mind and not the heart. The heart is great when things are well. The mind saves you from yourself.

These aren't the days of wine, cheese and a romantic overlook. These are the days of a greedy person throwing away your entire life and trying to destroy you. Think with the mind !!!!!!! It will save you.

Many days after you are saved will you have to cry and grieve. Now is not the time.