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Wow, Played again.

She is playing you like a fiddle my friend.

You need to realize this.

Until you do, she will continue to manipulate you, make you feel weak, and destroy what little bit of self esteem you have left.

You got your true answer why she is stringing you along. She doesn't want to give up her current duel life. Who would a guy here to love and care for her kids, and with a combined income a fairly decent life. A boyfriend an ocean/plane ride away, who I can guarantee she was in contact with last night, who makes her feel young, sexy, and awesome. Right now she has manipulated you into believing that she will now be tranparent, and save her M. I guess they both went and got their burner phones so they can continue to stay in contact with one another.

We say these things because we have been there and done it. We know what you don't. Your wife isn't some special little snowflake, she is a liar and a cheater. What words come out of her mouth mean nothing. ZERO, ZILCH, NADA. Quit listening to her, quit engaging her. Watch her actions. IT will tell a different story.

Oh and if she is so willing to make it work has she done any of the following?

Made an appt for STD testing?

Moved any cash from joint accounts?

Check for a lawyer bill as well. I would be surprised if she cancelled her appt.

Let her sleep in a different room for a while. Cool her jets, also make a schedule of who is responsible for the kids and when, and take some time for you. Let her see what being a single mom is going to be like.

Do not stop any divorce stuff without a postnup.

Believing her and trusting her aside. You can believe and trust a used car salesman won't sell you a lemon for a second time, but you know damn well you better get the warranty on it this go round.

OMG, the force is strong with this one

Well, rinse and repeat.

What does transparent mean???

Does it mean telling her boss she cannot go to UK and why???? Or does it mean she goes off for a week and you HOPE???

What she told you last night was all about HER fears, What about physically being more attracted to him?????

Has she offered to take a polygraph. ??? Has she offered to do anything other than give you lip service and tell you that when she thinks you are getting serious she makes "nice".

Yesterday you did not make noice and what did she do??? Run right to OM???

So what exactly are you feeling so good about, That is the question. She told you the exact same things as before she went right back to work and broke all the NC boundaries.

How about she tells her empoyer she cannot work with OM any more???

yes, you're falling for it again.

of course she's scared. if she wasn't she'd be stupid.

you should have said, "why should I commit to you, when you obviously won't commit to me? Why should I give you another chance? When I told you last night that I couldn't do this, you threw it in my face."

Dude, I know this is hard. But what "Actions" has she taken? If it were me, there would be no way in hell she's going to England for a team meeting.

imo you really need to lay down the law. If she doesn't get "all in" real fast, you need to give her divorce papers.

another thing, demand the emails. If you want to hang on to one simple thing that she could do, get the emails. then, after you read them, make a decision. my bet is she won't even do that one simple thing.

she is manipulating you by playing for the sympathy card. she knows you're a nice guy. quit it.

good luck

[This message edited by mike7 at 7:31 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

She is afraid of not being able to provide I totally get that. I am the same way... I have an incredible career I put alot of time and effort into. What I do not understand that if she is afraid of losing everything then why has she not began looking for an even better job? It is ALL IN THE ACTIONS.

There are times when she appears to be COMPLYING ... complying is not good enough. She literally needs to steer the ship!!! She caused this mess .. and i think she has a tendency to cause things and not expect herself to clean up the mess after. That is not how life works.

She had an affair with a co worker so she pushed herself into a corner where she needs to choose the job or the family. It is from her doing ... to make it out that YOU ARE causing this is BULLSHIT.

The things you are requiring are necessary, they are reasonable but for some reason she thinks you are asking too much. And she keeps trying to get YOU TO BACK DOWN.

She needs to find a better job. In the meantime THERE IS NO DAM WAY she needs to be flying out to where OM is.

Her behaviors are very consistent with her statement of being torn. One day she is like "fuck you" and then next it is "why are WE doing this?" you are not doing this SHE IS.

I am a woman and I am telling you she is feeding you shit with a velvet glove.

ICO - I'm a longtime lurker, and I rarely comment - but I've been following your thread closely. Your story saddens me, and I am hoping the best for you.

In short - yes. You are falling for it again. Your ambivalence is going to kill you in this. You've gotten such solid advice in this thread - worth its weight in gold - but you seem intent on following your heart even if the end result destroys you. Stop responding to the noises that happens when your wife's lips move, and keep a keen eye toward her actions. Has she actually given you ALL of her passwords? Has she made any attempts to find an alternative to traveling across the pond for this "conference"? Telepresence, perhaps?

Your wife is making room for her agenda. She is only ever giving you enough to string you along and keep you playing the game on her terms. What consequence has she suffered? I mean a serious, tangible consequence for what she's done to you and your marriage? Without that, what possible reason would there be for her not to follow her own bliss and ignore your bleating? Please, man. PLEASE listen to the veterans here. They care, they want your ultimate good, and THEY KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE what is going on here. You, your wife, and your situation are not unique in the least.

She came to me this morning and asked what we were doing. She told me that she's terrified about losing everything and then having to try and support kids on a shitty income. I have to admit, I believe her. I believe her reasoning. It's not the answer that I wanted but she made me believe that it wasn't because of the OM. That she was very scared of losing everything and her job on top of it.

Honestly, she put to bed a lot of my fears this morning. She saidthat she's willing to do whatever it takes to be as open and transparent as necessary.

She's deceived me for a year, but I believe her more now than I have for many months.

I feel like she's telling the truth. She said that when I start scaring her, she recoils a bit and acts ambivalent. (Not physically. I've never even gotten close to hitting her)

SHE SAID... but what has she DONE?

So far, she's only done the bare minimum necessary to keep you on the hook. Prepare yourself for more of that.

What do you do when you believe your WS?

You remain in a state of infidelity, that's what. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but honestly, how has believing her words worked out for you so far?

Actions, not words.

Now she needs to follow through and do what she says. Right?

Right. But beyond that, she needs to know that there will be consequences for failure. Namely divorce. She needs to understand that words won't cut it anymore. Keep your appointment with the lawyer.

Am I deceiving myself?

In my opinion (for whatever that's worth), there's a very strong liklihood that she's deceiving you...but she can only do that with your consent.

[This message edited by PlanNine at 7:37 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

How can a small 110 pound person ask a 1200 pound horse to listen? it is not out of fear but respect.

When you ask for something you need to MEAN it (NOT WAVER) and when you say NO .. NO MEANS NO. no yelling, no force required. The strength of what you are asking for and saying must fill EVERY cell inside your body. You will not accept anything less than what you ask for. Period. Know your worth. This woman has undermined your position in this marriage for so dam long you do not even know how valuable you are in it. You must mean what you say and stick to it. You need ACTIONS. Strong meaningful actions. No trip to the UK, PROOF that she has told HR and requested NC with OM at work UNTIL she finds a better job. A polygraph. And you need the details of what she has done ... no more of this vague stuff. No more attempts of rugsweeping and allowing her to say "we" ... there is no "we" right now and there has not been for awhile. She lost the right to say "we" when she ripped off her panties for OM.

This is the only way to deal with a Wayward.

She slept in the other room. Why???

You were sad, and resolved. Heart/head. We all get that. Perfectly normal!

She came to me this morning and asked what we were doing. She told me that she's terrified about losing everything and then having to try and support kids on a shitty income. I have to admit, I believe her. I believe her reasoning. It's not the answer that I wanted but she made me believe that it wasn't because of the OM. That she was very scared of losing everything and her job on top of it.

Honestly, she put to bed a lot of my fears this morning. She said that she's willing to do whatever it takes to be as open and transparent as necessary.

She's deceived me for a year, but I believe her more now than I have for many months.

I feel like she's telling the truth. She said that when I start scaring her, she recoils a bit and acts ambivalent. (Not physically. I've never even gotten close to hitting her)

I told her that she has to make me believe that she is trying to make this work, to be open and transparent. She accepted that.

She's been reading the books. I brought that up to her that she knows that some of the ups and downs are natural for this process. She accepted that too.

What do you do when you believe your WS? I feel absolutely convinced that she is telling me the truth. I feel like she is saying the right things. Now she needs to follow through and do what she says. Right?There is no doubt that I am confused. I feel better about where she is at now than I have so far. I feel better about my chances. Our chances. My chances are fine. I'm a survivor, I've figured that out already.

She understands trust but verify.

Am I falling for it again? I was resigned to divorce last night. I thought we crossed that threshold. Now, I feel there is a chance. Am I deceiving myself?

I may be different than some BS's here. I'm forever the optimist and want a "happily ever after" for everyone. Problem with that view of mine is that sometimes the "balance of power" is as equal as China negotiating with Luxembourg (i.e., lopsided)

Okay. You were sad last night and set on D (her wishes). This morning hopeful for R, because what she is saying.

Fine. She resigns the job this morning before 10:00am EST, if she is sincere. Fuck the money. Marriage is "for richer or poorer" and so money does not factor in AT ALL.

Actions, not words. Ball is in her court. Let's hear about that resignation, shall we?

Good luck, ICO

[This message edited by CanoeVA at 7:56 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

Oh and if she is so willing to make it work has she done any of the following?

Made an appt for STD testing?

Moved any cash from joint accounts?

Check for a lawyer bill as well. I would be surprised if she cancelled her appt.

Let her sleep in a different room for a while. Cool her jets, also make a schedule of who is responsible for the kids and when, and take some time for you. Let her see what being a single mom is going to be like.

She already had an STD test and she is going to do another one in December. We got the results back and they were clean.

I check the accounts every day, sometimes several times a day. Nothing is missing. I actually have control over the accounts. Everything is in my name.

There is no way that she could paid for a lawyer without my knowing unless she charged it to her company card. That will get her fired. I'm not worried about that.

She's slept in the guest room several times so far, including the last two nights.

I know she's been looking for jobs. I check the logs.

I realize that she's not some special snowflake, but when I actually believe her, what am I supposed to do? At some point I either have to take a chance and maybe pay for it, or cut ties. I believe her. If we are going to make this work, then we both have to jump in.

My goal in life is not to humiliate her or to cause her pain. If I wanted to do that, I could call her HR, her boss, let her sisters know and tell all of her friends and our friends. What is that going to do in the end? Is that going to make her like me more or less? I'm betting I know the answer to this.

She is the mother of my children. We will always be connected to one another no matter what. Do I have to destroy their mother in the process of this? How does that help my kids, or me?

I'm been reading some books, and a lot of online advice, on what it will take for reconciliation or divorce. They all say that at some point you have to decide.

In the end, my job isn't to make you all believe her. I understand that. Her job is to make me believe. I am coming to you all for advice and clearly I have to decide to follow it or not.

I also understand that I could be setting myself up for a DDay 2. What I don't want to do is half in or half out. The statistics of that are bad. I have to go 100% and make sure she does too.

At this point, I am willing to give her a chance to prove to me that she is being truthful. That's a start. That's enough to make me take a step down the path.

No trip to the UK, PROOF that she has told HR and requested NC with OM at work UNTIL she finds a better job. A polygraph. And you need the details of what she has done ... no more of this vague stuff. No more attempts of rugsweeping and allowing her to say "we" ... there is no "we" right now and there has not been for awhile. She lost the right to say "we" when she ripped off her panties for OM.

The above came to you from a very smart female member. Has your wife offered ANY of this/ Not a chance.

And I am NOT telling you to divorce her if she meets the requirements of R.

But you are imposing none, not even the ones about cutting out her girlfriend.

Notice not one person here believes any of this shit she is telling you.

YOU ARE GOING TO GET WHACKED AGAIN SO HARD YOUR HEAD WILL SPIN AND IT WILL MAKE THIS THING SO FAR LOOK LIKE CHILDS PLAY.

Read what you wrote.

EVERYTHING SHE TOLD YOU WAS ABOUT HER!!!!!

You already know you cannot monitor NC at work. You already know she is talking to him every day. What the fuck does transparent mean.???? She will let you look at her cell phone????

You have absolutely no way to enforce anything with her and him in the same positions without a polygraph. You refuse a VAR.

The reason you got so many quick resposes and even some from new posters to you is because everyone but you recognize what she is doing here.

You are totally co dependent on this woman and she is going to shit all over you again, and it is a crying shame because you have all the tools necessary to stop it from happeneingg to you. Many BS are not that lucky.

How is she going to be transparent in Uk for a week with OM eight hours a day???? You have an answer on that one???

[This message edited by nononsense at 7:57 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

So what's the situation regarding her job? What did she say about that?

In the end, my job isn't to make you all believe her. I understand that. Her job is to make me believe. I am coming to you all for advice and clearly I have to decide to follow it or not.

I also understand that I could be setting myself up for a DDay 2. What I don't want to do is half in or half out. The statistics of that are bad. I have to go 100% and make sure she does too.

At this point, I am willing to give her a chance to prove to me that she is being truthful. That's a start. That's enough to make me take a step down the path.

That is great, and I'm rooting for. Okay. So, now what?

What does proof (on her part) actually look like, other than just words? What does 100% 'in'(on her part) actually look like, other than just words? NC is a big start. As you can see above, I'm a HUGE advocate of work-affair folks leaving the job. Staying makes zero sense. We see it justified here every day (money, esteem, importance, lifestyle, debts, whatever) and it NEVER works for the benefit of the marriage when a WS stays in a job with OP. Never.

Certainly the trip is out, ..yes?

[This message edited by CanoeVA at 10:00 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

At this point, I am willing to give her a chance to prove to me that she is being truthful. That's a start. That's enough to make me take a step down the path.

But she has done literally zero actions to actually prove anything. You are rug sweeping. I'm not saying this to 2x4 you, I'm saying this to ask you a hard question. What has she actually done?

She is still going to the UK for her fukathon.

She knows this burns you. Sure is she actually looking for a job, has she even tried telling her boss "I have some personal issues which will likely prevent me from travelling. etc etc etc"?

She is still in contact with her boyfriend, and you know this and have confirmed this.

She is playing her chips to the middle of the table and calling your bluff. You say that you believe her. What did you believe when she was making love to him three weeks ago, was she telling you the truth then?

Humor me - you're an IT guy and have an analytical brain. Pretend you're being interviewed. Give me the hard facts on how you should trust your own ability to tell you the truth. Know your limitations - you not only can't tell when she is lying but you want to believe her lies, because you're a good person.

She

Is

Still

Lying

To

You

I PM'd another member last night that I was very proud of what you did last night and that I knew you had it in you. He PM'd me back betting me that you would fold like a blanket in the morning. He was right.

You are a good man and you need to stand up for yourself.

Icanovercome ... i wish you had a partner with the type of class, decency and commitment to mirror your own. I honestly believe you are a truly caring decent man.

I never ever wanted to hurt or humiliate the man I loved. and I choose not to. I went through DDAY 2 .. and i still choose not to humiliate him. I gave it my all like you are doing now. I refused to allow what he was doing to REDUCE me to be something I am not. But after DDAY 2 I realized the ONLY way for me to hold on to what and who I am was to walk away. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life (and I am a very strong woman).

I sincerely wish and hope that your best intentions and deepest wish comes to fruition for you. And you are right to hold on to all that is good within you.

But at some point you will see how special you are and know you can find a way to assert the very reasonable and necessary boundary around you to ensure no one abuses or takes advantage of you, especially your WS. Guard your heart STRONGLY.

they do not call this a rollercoaster for nothing ... and you want to instill calm in the waters ... it sounds like that is your nature ... just do not do it at your own expense.

You can explore all of this in IC and post and receive support here as you continue processing and working on yourself and your marriage. It is a arduous journey and you will need support .. so we will always be ready and willing to help in whatever way we can.

ICO, have you recovered the messages yet?

————————————

—————————————-

this is from July 17th

She has seen two ICs. She found one today that seemed to be good. That IC told her that she needs to be willing to let go of the job if she wants to keep the marriage.

So she’s not listening to her counselors anymore, and you’re not listening to us :)

I am coming to you all for advice and clearly I have to decide to follow it or not.

Absolutely true. Only you can decide if any advice here applies to you and your WW. But please keep in mind that every person here has been down the same road. Some have D'd. Some have R'd. But all have had a WS. All have experienced the pain of having a WS lie and deceive. Most of the advice you're getting is not trying to force you down one path or another. But rather to protect you from more pain. That's the priority. Detaching your emotions from your WS is not to punish the WS, it's to protect you from additional pain. The 180 is not to punish the WS, but to protect you. Seeing a lawyer is not to force you to D. It's for you to get information, to understand your options and rights.

You already know what the end of one path looks like five years down the road, you and your wife all happy and loving again. You don't know what that path looks like, that's why you need to go see that lawyer.

Today is not the day to decide if you'll D or R. Today is the day to decide to end the affair, and protect yourself, emotionally and legally and financially. Today is the day to sit back and watch the actions of your WW, not listen to the words.

My goal in life is not to humiliate her or to cause her pain.

Nor should it be. However, your WW is an adult. And has made the adult choice to have an A. And the adult consequences of that choice are going to be painful and potentially embarrassing for her. She needs to put on her big girl panties and face those consequences head on. And show you through decisive action on her part that she is 100% committed to fixing her fuckup.

I'm with Canoe in that I like to think that anything can be fixed and that everyone gets a happily ever after. The problem with that is that it means that both sides need to be all in. We know that you're all in. What we haven't seen is the actions on your WW's part that show her commitment to fixing the shit she caused in your life.

Right now she's more worried about herself than you, and that's not the way she needs to be thinking. You've said she's been reading the books. She doesn't seem to have internalized them yet. Those books should have her falling all over herself to make you feel loved, safe -- to helping you. Instead she's still thinking about herself. A remorseful WS who "gets it" would never say "Oh gee, work says I have to go to the UK? Well, if they say I have to, then I guess I have to." A WS who "gets it" would say "OMG, if I go to the UK, to the very place where my AP lives and works, that's going to hurt ICan, and cause him pain. I need to do everything in my power to make sure it doesn't happen, including outing the A to my boss, to HR, and quit if I have to." And do these things without you forcing her, or even asking. Remember. You cannot fix this. She has to fix this.

[This message edited by tbkjcn at 8:28 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

Do you love her more than you love yourself?