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Just Found Out :
I Now Have An Inkling Of What To Do

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CanoeVA ( member #46071) posted at 4:12 PM on Friday, September 11th, 2015

Canoe - Or stupid. I've done quite a number of things as a teenager that I thought was brave, but in reality was just dumb and stupid. Hard to know, which one this would be.

Well, every situation is different, and we're all just anonymous message board posters.

Only you know your situation. What you've described sounds to me very much like a remorseful WW. That, right there, puts you in a better position than many of the people here giving advice. So many BS's don't (or didn't) have that.

You're a business man. It would be stupid if you haven't done your background work. (Like buying a stock without understanding the financial statements). You sound to me like a methodical, logical guy. You're doing your work. It takes time. I doubt you'll R without both of you (you, and WW) "doing the work". You just don't seem to me to be someone who would go forward with eyes shut.

Now, ...if you go into R...both of you doing the work, and it doesn't work out.. that still isn't stupid. It's just unfortunate and sad. But not stupid. You would have tried. You would have done the work and tried.

I could even form a cogent argument that it is stupid for some to not even try to R. But it is an individual decision, case-by-case.

Nah. I use the word "brave" because you'll be putting yourself back out there, going through pain, fighting mind movies, all the while practicing a special sort of faith. Dude. That's brave. Risking, for that reward.

..and I'm right there with you. 9 months out, I'm feeling brave...and vindicated.

You may even want to start poking around the Reconciliation board, if you're so inclined. Not nearly as active as this place, but there's a bit of good "group therapy" type of discussion there. It helps.

Keep posting, Walloped. Good luck.

Me = BH
fWW- 2014 affair most of year; EA Feb/March became PA April until DDay
Married 1986
DDay- 12/08/14
2 adult children, mid 20s
OM = Wife's best friend's brother
We're both working on R

posts: 2571   ·   registered: Dec. 24th, 2014   ·   location: Virginia
id 7343026
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HobbesTheTiger ( member #41477) posted at 4:30 PM on Friday, September 11th, 2015

It's great that you're moving home. It's ok to take lots of time to decide whether you want to try to reconcile or not. Don't let anyone, including yourself, pressure or rush you into making the decision. Recovery from infidelity, either ending with R or D, is a marathon, so be patient with yourself and take care of yourself.

Best wishes

posts: 3597   ·   registered: Nov. 28th, 2013
id 7343039
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 Walloped (original poster member #48852) posted at 4:59 PM on Friday, September 11th, 2015

I could even form a cogent argument that it is stupid for some to not even try to R. But it is an individual decision, case-by-case.

Nah. I use the word "brave" because you'll be putting yourself back out there, going through pain, fighting mind movies, all the while practicing a special sort of faith. Dude. That's brave. Risking, for that reward

And that's why I said "or stupid." It really isn't, but that's me talking from a place of fear. Fear of the unknown and fear of potential pain and hurt.

One day at a time, but if things progress well, then as you said, I would be stupid if I didn't have a goal of R, IMO.

But as of now, I feel more like Brave Sir Robin, than anything else.

Brave Sir Robin ran away.

Bravely ran away, away.

When danger rears it's ugly head

He bravely turned his tail and fled.

Yes Brave Sir Robin turned about

He gallantly chickened out.

Bravely taking to his feet

He beat a very brave retreat.

Oh bravest of the brave, Sir Robin.

Me: BH 47
Her: WW 46
DDay 8/3/15
"Every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa the bad things don’t necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant.” - The Doctor

posts: 1816   ·   registered: Aug. 6th, 2015   ·   location: New York
id 7343072
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Still1991 ( new member #49171) posted at 6:43 PM on Friday, September 11th, 2015

You need time...it is the one thing you can not rush. Act in haste, repent in leisure. I do know that for me, and who I am, my fWH's behavior was something I could not accept in a partner. I could not be the kind of wife who couldn't trust my spouse 100%. I need to be with someone who, like you, would never do that. EVER! I wanted to keep my marriage intact, but I knew it couldn't stay intact with a man who could at any time think so little of me, us and what we had built together.

Good Luck with your decision W...I'll pray you get the strength to overcome it sooner than later, for all of your family's sake.

fBW at 34 (me)
fWH at 30
Married five years...together 8
D-Day March '91
No Kids
No R
D 2/14/1994
Happily Re-married
"What is left when honor is lost?" - Publilius Syrus

posts: 6   ·   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2015
id 7343202
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wantthistostop ( member #48922) posted at 7:11 PM on Friday, September 11th, 2015

Good afternoon Walloped,

Brave sir, you are not in the least that Robin....ironically (or not!) my XWBF apparently is

Needless to say, we are all dealing with our individual situations of pain and anguish, and we will make mistakes along the way so will W's even though we may all be hyper vigilant, meticulous and thoughtful, nevertheless the minefield is there! Mistakes are opportunities for learning and growth! While we are devastated, we are not destroyed!

Infidelity is the BS that baffles our brains. Now we question everything, wonder if our thoughts processes are actually normal or we are ready for the straight jacket and the rubber room!

I understand the fear associated with this, my fears obviously different from yours, but underlying both of our fears is that foundation of who we are at our core! We have been upended and unearthed, our core has been attacked, so naturally we question whether who we are at our core is authentic/real!

When I was bargaining, before D date (Ugh, I know!) I was trying to hang on for dear life not having a clue what I was dealing with!

After D day I realized that my most trusted ally had retreated and left me alone on the battlefield to fight on my own!

Its not anything like the neighbour with the drill, because you know how to deal with him ... you have been around that block before and know what to expect!. But this is a block you haven't been down, so how can you know what to expect and protect yourself from it when you have no idea what danger lurks in the laneway just ahead.

Well, Star Wars fans....get that light sabre at your side and recall Yoda's words of wisdom (although barely audible, you can hear them!) So compadre...get that light sabre strapped to your belt and may the force be with you!

(((Walloped)))

WTTS

BGF: Me 51 D 2002 DS 21 and DD 20
XWBF: 50
D day: August 9, 2015

Taking it one day at a time!

posts: 212   ·   registered: Aug. 11th, 2015   ·   location: Toronto, Canada
id 7343234
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tbkjcn ( member #44744) posted at 7:26 PM on Friday, September 11th, 2015

Fear of the unknown and fear of potential pain and hurt.

Those are two very primal fears. A form of self-preservation. But as human beings we can chose to override those fears and open ourselves to the possibility that by facing them, something good may happen. And that by doing so and moving forward past those fears, we may end up in a better place than we are today.

Me: BH 49 (then)
Her: WW 48 (then)
D-Day 8-30-14 3 yr LTA and 1 ONS (9-1-14 the rest of the story, she can't remember how many men)
Divorce filed 1/14/15, final 4/7/15
Married 23 years together 28

posts: 667   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2014   ·   location: IL
id 7343249
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cajun123 ( member #48989) posted at 8:33 PM on Friday, September 11th, 2015

Walloped, prayers today for God to shine a light on your new path & to give you strength,courage & compassion. My best wishes...

posts: 126   ·   registered: Aug. 16th, 2015   ·   location: Louisiana
id 7343318
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HobbesTheTiger ( member #41477) posted at 10:06 PM on Friday, September 11th, 2015

+5 brownie points for the Monty Python reference, Wal :)

posts: 3597   ·   registered: Nov. 28th, 2013
id 7343390
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happyman64 ( member #33212) posted at 1:12 AM on Saturday, September 12th, 2015

Walloped

I urge you to read this book if you have not already.

http://www.amazon.com/Unbroken-World-Survival-Resilience-Redemption/dp/B00RLZ9I8C/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1442016796&sr=8-6&keywords=unbroken

It will take your mind off of your struggles and give you a new outlook on life.

By the time you finish reading it to the end I encourage you to look at the authors statistics that she put together so completely.

It will make you realize how lucky the main character was able to survive at all.

Then you will understand what his "leap of faith" moment truly entailed.

The movie did not do the true story justice.

HM

[This message edited by happyman64 at 7:12 PM, September 11th (Friday)]

posts: 1971   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2011   ·   location: New York
id 7343548
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 Walloped (original poster member #48852) posted at 5:08 AM on Sunday, September 13th, 2015

So a lot has happened over the weekend so far. Mostly positive. I went home last night. Showed up at the door. Kids were happy to see me. So was my wife. I had my stuff in the car still. I knew my intentions but didn't know where she stood. Anyway, we ate dinner with the kids and after, she asked me if we could talk. She said that she had so much to say and tell me, but before we did all that she wanted to apologize. Meaningfully and sincerely. She said she's so so sorry for causing me so much pain and hurt. She said she doesn't know how she can ever make it up to me, but she wants to spend the rest of her life trying. She doesn't know what I plan on doing, and she knows she has no right to ask, but before I make any life altering decisions, could I at least give her the opportunity to show me how much she loves me and how much she wants a life with me and only me. And how she can be the person I need her to be. She knows she made the worst decision in her life and she'll regret it forever, and she doesn't deserve for me to want to be with her, but she wants to try and show me that I can be happy with her, and if I let her try, she'll dedicate herself to me and the family. To be the best wife and mother she can be. So I told her what I basically told all of you. That these past 2 weeks were really helpful for me. That I realized she's a different person now, and I don't know who she is anymore. That the person in front of me is not the same person I married. Or maybe she is and the ability to do what she did was always there, and that's a very frightening place for me to be because how do I know it won't happen again? How do I know she's safe for me? How do I know I can trust her? But, I told her that I want to. Or rather, I want to see if she is someone I can feel safe with. If she is someone I want to put the effort of trying to reconcile into. So I asked her if she's really willing to do the work? It's going to be super challenging - for both of us. If she's not willing she should just say so, but if she is, she needs to commit to this. She jumped all over that and said absolutely. Her IC had warned her what would be coming and she was not only prepared but grateful if I gave her a chance.

So I told her that I'm going to give her the opportunity to show me that she is that person, and at the same time I'm going to see if I can be that person who can put in the effort too. And the first thing I need to do is to move back home. She started crying and said thank you about 100 times. Actually alternated between thanking me and thanking God. So I went to the car, got my bags and brought them into my bedroom. I hadn't really been in there for nearly 6 weeks. It was very odd. She looked shocked when I started carrying my stuff up the stairs but didn't say anything. When I started hanging clothes in the closet she started crying again. I said to her that if I'm serious about wanting to see if we can do this and if she's someone I can trust enough to want to reconcile with, well then I can't keep hiding out in the basement. She just grabbed me and hugged me and cried. Again with the thank you's. I did warn her that while I was okay with sleeping in the same bed, I wasn't ready for anything else. She didn't care. She was so happy. I came downstairs. My 19 year old looked at me with big question marks in her eyes and raised eyebrows. I simply said we're going to try. She hugged me as did my 16 year old. Of course my 2 boys saw this mini group hug and decided to dive bomb on top of me. I needed that. I need them. Like blood in my veins, I don't know how I'd survive without my kids.

So we talked. A lot. She told me what she learned at a dozen sessions of IC. Her FOO issues. Her parents have a shitty marriage. I swear they have mismatched dishes from multiple sets because they're constantly throwing them. Her father was abusive. Not sexually, thank God but hitting was common. Both her, her sister, and his wife. And her mom was/is no picnic either. She would curse him out and say the nastiest things. My wife expected our marriage to end up like this. Basically, and she emphasized that these were not excuses, but her warped reasons, she felt useless and unwanted in life. She knew and always treasured her role as a mom but my daughter getting married had her feeling that she was no longer going to be needed. Then what good was she? What value did she provide? She had this need to be loved and told that she was worthy. Apparently, at home, she was always a good for nothing and would get beaten for not doing chores, etc. she thought that was normal life. And so when I was too busy to spend time on the wedding, she started playing these tapes in her head about what the next step was. First I'm abandoning her and leaving her alone to deal with the wedding. Then she has no value because her role as a mother is ending, and soon we won't have a marriage either because we'll end up just like her parents. She was back to being a good for nothing. My "abandoning" her was just the first step. And that's when POS stepped in. She read Shirley Glass' book Not Just Friends while I was gone so she has a much better perspective on what went on, which her IC and her discussed. She confided in him. He was a nice guy. Seemed concerned cause she was walking around rather depressed. And she opened up. She recognizes now what he did. And she realizes that if someone tried hitting on her at a bar, they'd have no chance. He didn't do that. They just talked. He listened. He did everything I wasn't doing at that moment. And he kept complimenting her. Telling her how much she was handling and doing. And she no longer was a good for nothing. She was someone to be valued. She had worth. She was so disgusted with herself when she told me this. Said how she fell for it. No, she ate it up until she craved it. She needed it and he kept validating her. And then he made his moves and kept telling her how wonderful she was. And she ended up sleeping with him. And she felt so dirty and she panicked. She tried to scrub him off and was sure I'd see right away that she cheated. And when I didn't notice what she had done, it just confirmed in her mind that I didn't care about her. But POS did. He valued her. And so she slept with him again because when she did, he would tell her all these wonderful things about herself. And she was so pathetic that she gobbled it up and wanted it like a kid wants candy. She said she didn't truly love him. She recognizes that now. But she really convinced herself that she did. She had to. Otherwise she'd be a cheap slut and she's not a cheap slut who just fucks other men. So it must mean she loved him. And so she devoted herself to that. She invested herself in her love for him because the more she did the better able she could handle sleeping with him and getting the ego boost she wanted, needed, and craved. And so she acted like she loved him. And made herself believed that she did love him and lived that way with him too. And she was so so so sorry for betraying me like that and not believing in my love for her. For forgetting what I do and have done for her and for our family. She just pushed it all to the side cause nothing else mattered as long as she got her validation and ego boosts from him.

She apologized a hundred times for not talking to me about what she was feeling. For not trusting me. And for not seeing POS for what he was.

So we talked about him. I wanted to know where she would be now if my brother hadn't seen her. She admits nothing would have changed. She still maintains that she never thought of leaving me. How she compartmentalized it all. But she did admit that she thought of him a lot even when we were together. She had these things in mind of what he would tell her about herself. She understands now it was all so he could get in her pants, but what she's been working on at IC is why she needed this so desperately and why she has so little value of herself.

No. It was never about the sex. It was about the validation she received before, during, and after. That's why when his wife called her a whore, it hit her so hard. She didn't give it up for dinner and trips to MOMA like her sister said. She whored herself out for compliments. Cheap compliments. And that's when it hit her what she had become.

We talked about other things. Her sister didn't know but suspected. Confronted her based on her behavior but she denied it. Her sister warned her anyway. So that's why she was so pissed at her when it came out. Because she guessed and told my wife to quit whatever she was doing and my wife did it anyway. I asked when this confrontation happened. About 3 weeks before DDay.

I asked about the cuff links. She bought them with him. The more she did for him the more he praised her. Told her how amazing and thoughtful and sensitive she was. Looking back, everything she did, she did for him so he would tell her what she wanted to hear. Funny thing? She hates MOMA. So do I. Can't stand modern art. My wife always make fun of it. Give me the masters, renaissance, impressionists, any day. She went because he wanted to and she wanted to do for him so he would do for her.

She asked about the poly. She wants to take it. She wants to show me she's being open and transparent. No, she says she has not been in contact with him nor received any messages from him through anyone else.

She called my brother to thank him. Told him she doesn't know where she would have ended up as a person if he hadn't seen her and had the guts to tell me. But even if we don't make it, she feels she's much better off as a person now than if she was still with him. So she thanked him for looking out for me and apologized to him for what she did to his brother and nieces and nephews. I didn't hear what he said. All she said back is "I won't." and "Thank you."

And she thanked me for the way I've handles this so far. She fully acknowledges that she wouldn't have been so kind to me - she considers herself way more selfish. I didn't argue the point. And she thanked me for going away. Said while she knows I did it for myself, she needed it to. To really fully think about her situation, devote herself to IC, to devote herself to the kids. and to think about me and what she did to me and what she can do to try and rectify some of this, if I gave her the chance. And how what a shitty person she's been for the past 5 months. That her sister, and my brother and SIL were all so supportive of me and her, and helpful, and she was just so selfish.

And yes, she has lots of self-lothing and shame, and guiilt and all the expected emotions, but she's trying to work through those with her IC so she doesn't focus on them because those don't help her focus on me and her and our future. So she's trying to deal with them in a constructive way so it doesn't impede what she needs to do for us.

And finally, I slept in my bed last night. No. No sex. I'm not there. But it was my bed. We weren't together but we were. It was strange. But oddly okay. I couldn't have done that 2 weeks ago. But I did. Took Ambien to sleep, but I did sleep. She didn't hug me or anything. Just touched my shoulder to say good night and thank you again. Going to go to sleep soon as its after midnight here. One day at a time.

Me: BH 47
Her: WW 46
DDay 8/3/15
"Every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa the bad things don’t necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant.” - The Doctor

posts: 1816   ·   registered: Aug. 6th, 2015   ·   location: New York
id 7344525
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wantthistostop ( member #48922) posted at 5:43 AM on Sunday, September 13th, 2015

(((Walloped)))

I am truly humbled by this update and the positive news for your return home.

The group hug...gave me a warm fuzzy feeling and tear of relief and maybe even joy!

Your W sounds like she's done alot of work in IC so far, and I would expect her to continue, since she is Mrs. Walloped!

FOO issues...they will always be there! Awareness is the key to minimizing their detrimental effect!

I had a feeling that your journey would be to try the R route! You both have much work ahead, and you're right, it won't be easy! But nothing worth doing ever is.

Wishing you much success along the way and a roadmap to help you both navigate the cowpies!

WTTS

BGF: Me 51 D 2002 DS 21 and DD 20
XWBF: 50
D day: August 9, 2015

Taking it one day at a time!

posts: 212   ·   registered: Aug. 11th, 2015   ·   location: Toronto, Canada
id 7344535
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Foley05 ( member #48459) posted at 7:02 AM on Sunday, September 13th, 2015

Reading this it's hard to believe your wife and her sister grew up in the same family.

posts: 239   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2015   ·   location: Central US
id 7344549
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kimichi ( member #47377) posted at 8:24 AM on Sunday, September 13th, 2015

posts: 200   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2015
id 7344561
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HobbesTheTiger ( member #41477) posted at 9:04 AM on Sunday, September 13th, 2015

Awesome update. Best wishes!

posts: 3597   ·   registered: Nov. 28th, 2013
id 7344566
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sensibletinch ( member #45491) posted at 10:13 AM on Sunday, September 13th, 2015

Sounds like great news. I really hope you guys can make it.

posts: 151   ·   registered: Nov. 4th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 7344581
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Valentinessucks ( member #46486) posted at 1:08 PM on Sunday, September 13th, 2015

I have a lump in my throat after reading your update.

It's so weird to share the bed.

So strange to be together, physical proximity, but no touching. The urge to reach out, but the anger and fear that keep you from actually doing it.

Surreal.

Me: BS, 52 Him: WS, 68
Married 30 yrs; DDay E/A, 5/2012
2nd DDay, again E/A, broke NC 2/2014 Reconciling.

posts: 2705   ·   registered: Jan. 24th, 2015   ·   location: pa
id 7344614
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 Walloped (original poster member #48852) posted at 1:53 PM on Sunday, September 13th, 2015

Kimichi - nice to see you posting here again.

Can you elaborate?

Me: BH 47
Her: WW 46
DDay 8/3/15
"Every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa the bad things don’t necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant.” - The Doctor

posts: 1816   ·   registered: Aug. 6th, 2015   ·   location: New York
id 7344630
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happyman64 ( member #33212) posted at 1:59 PM on Sunday, September 13th, 2015

Glad you went home W.

Your kids need you. Especially your girls at home.

But most of all your wife does need you.

Now continue to hold her accountable. That accountability means she holds her self accountable.

She gets those issues in her head straightened so she can be the best woman, mother and wife that she promised to be.

And Rome was not built in a day. Neither will your new relationship be with your wife.

Patience. Good things come to those who wait.

And the POSOM needs a good beat down. I heard of a crazy cop in NYC who gives beat downs to the wrong man all the time. I heard he is available.

HM

posts: 1971   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2011   ·   location: New York
id 7344634
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eric1 ( member #47762) posted at 2:06 PM on Sunday, September 13th, 2015

W -

A very big weekend for you. A+ for taking action. My suggesting for this week is to do absolutely no thinking on the affair. Mentally, it's going to be important to adjust yourself to the new normal. For the first time in six weeks you'll be living, atleast in terms of living arrangements, to how it was before D-Day.

Your greatest enemy for the new few weeks will be either complacency or momentary fits of internal rage.

You're doing great! Keep the focus on healing yourself first - you are still VERY far away from that. Be aware of White Knight Syndrome after learning of he somewhat checkered past.

posts: 1040   ·   registered: May. 4th, 2015
id 7344637
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 Walloped (original poster member #48852) posted at 2:08 PM on Sunday, September 13th, 2015

Valentine - Yes. Very strange. First, I haven't been in that bed for nearly 6 weeks. And to be exactly as you described. Surreal is a good word for it. She's been good about it. Giving me my space. She's not reaching out to me with any physical closeness, more because she's taking cues from me. I can tell she really wants to. But she's putting my needs first which I'm happy to see. No lingerie either or anything provocative either.

Anger is there, yes, but fear is a big thing too. You hit it exactly right. Even if I get to the point where I want to, I'm scared shitless. Am I going to envision her with him? Is she going to compare us? How do I compete? Should I compete? Am I going to overthink everything and have performance issues? Stuff to talk about and work through at IC, I know, but you're so right about how strange it is.

And you want to know what really sucks? It's been two mornings so far but when I woke up yesterday and today, for a second everything was normal. I was in my bed, my wife was next to me. It was 23 years of normal. And then it all came back in a rush. Hit me like a freight train. And it's anything but normal. It was all I could do not to freak out. Or cry. Sucks. I wonder if this is going to continue for a while. Wake up each day in my own fantasy land before reality smacks me upside the head.

As I keep telling myself: one day at a time.

Me: BH 47
Her: WW 46
DDay 8/3/15
"Every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa the bad things don’t necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant.” - The Doctor

posts: 1816   ·   registered: Aug. 6th, 2015   ·   location: New York
id 7344641
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