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In the end, that's what I remember most about my parent's divorce that year. I remember my father being calm and cool, though I know he wasn't, and never once mentioned any of it to me. I remember the insanity that came out of my mother's mouth. Honestly the bad mouthing my father never stopped until the day he died. My father's only response to all of her venom was that he wishes her no ill will.

This is what the redpillers call "flipping the light switch." When women no longer feel attraction to their husband, they rewrite history. "I don't feel attracted to this man and I am doing horrible things to him. The only thing that can make me not a rotten person is if he were an abusive, terrible husband, so that must be what happened."

The sad thing is, they end up convincing themselves of this.

I will NOT, nor will I ever, badmouth her to them, or make them feel like she doesn't love or care about them. If she wants to badmouth me to them, that's up to her, but I won't allow myself to sink to the same level.

JM, I understand you're emotionally raw and devastated right now - as each one of us once was - but no one here has suggested that you badmouth your wife or make your kids feel like she doesn't love them.

All I can see is the recommendation that you stop speaking on your wife's behalf to your kids about HER feelings and attitudes about them. She fired you from that job, and quite frankly, you don't really know what she's feeling anymore. That should be quite evident from her behavior lately.

No badmouthing involved, JM, just your own truth. Your wife is responsible for her own truth and how she deals with it.

Wow....they knew even more then I did. How dare they keep this information from me!?!? heh

As a BH and a kid who's mom was a WW, I can tell you with certainty that the kids knew or suspected. You were right to tell them the truth.

As for "bad mouthing" the WW, you are right. You don't want to do that, because in the end she is still their mother and love her.

I was mad at my mom for a long time, but in the end, she was still my mother and worked to show she loves me. That's all I could ask of her. (Although I don't forget that she blew up my family and put my dad in a spiral for a while (I get what he went through now, too )

As for my XW, she's spent a lot of time being selfish, ignoring the kids, staying out all night, promising to pay for part of my DD's college and then not, can't hold a job or get one, while my two oldest (18 and 16) are working. There are a lot of times I want to just tell my kids, "I'm sorry, but your mom is a fuck up. That's just who she is."

But I don't. If my XW wants to do that stuff to my kids, they'll see it and figure it out. I've already had 2/3 kids tell me mom isn't reliable. But that's on the WW.

Your heart is in the right place (WRT the kids). You're doing well.

Your wife took your daughter to the track and left her alone while she talked to the OM?

Sorry but she does not love your children as much as you do as evidenced by the above.

That she is exposing them to the OM proves my point.

I've stated this before and will again. You need to make sure your children are not exposed to the OM's friends and family. If he is still involved with your wife once divorced and your children are exposed to his entourage they will be at risk.

You need to address this in the divorce and with your children (daughters) Do not count on your STBXW to protect them.

You know exactly what I'm talking about.

Jm72. I dont think i've ever said badmouth her. I think you need to keep to your own stuff? Did I make a mistake in my wording or my presentation? I think a mother who dumps an affair on her kids is gross. That's because I too experienced this..

Like others have said just speak for yourself no "your mom and I" when talking to them.

No one mentioned bad mouthing your ww. She needs to keep or redevelope her relationship with your kids.

You can't control what she says or does to them. Just be there for them if/when they need you.

You are a good guy and father and that is all you have to worry about. Like someone else said she fired you from the job of her looking good to them.

They will see it in her actions how she feels anyway.

The wording was wrong. I didn't mean to insinuate anything about bad mouthing anyone.

The whole point was, I'm trying to express to the kids that I love them, and mom loves them. They're gonna be OK no matter what. I told them that if they ever needed to talk, they can talk to me. I'll never lie to them.

I was just trying to reassure them as much as possible that they're gonna be OK no matter what.

Sure I could have told them - "Mom smoked pot with this guy, and if she stays out all night drinking and partying, she could end up killing herself or someone else" - but I won't.

They don't need ALL the details right now. I'm not gonna get them upset if I can avoid it. That's all I meant.

And who loves them more isn't a contest. As long as they're loved by both of us, and they know it, that's all that matters to me.

You did a great job. Your kids need all the reassurance they can get and you were there to provide it. So what if you ascribed a few extra feelings to her that may or may not be completely accurate?

Kids will figure out the truth. And the only absolute here is that they are finding out rather abruptly that parents are fallible. Your "high road" approach, the fact that you aren't the one that has left the marriage for someone else, is a glaring fact that says far more than anything else.

Any chance of getting the kids to counseling?

JM you are doing such a good job! That talk with your two eldest must have been difficult.

I agree you should never bad mouth their mother and they don't need the nitty gritty details. But I don't think you should be telling them that their mother loves them the same as you do. Do you want to let your daughter think that some one who loves her would go to spend time with her but instead leave her alone to walk the track while she chats to her boyfriend? That someone who loves her would leave her home alone while she goes out partying? That is not the actions of someone who loves her children the same way you do.

Make sure you kids know you love them. That you will always be there for them and that is the best you can do as their father.

I think it would be along the following:

My wife and I would go to court. We would both make statements about how much we love the children. IF I speak for my wife the judge would shush me because I do not speak for my wife. IF my wife tried to speak for me, the judge would shush her because she does not speak for me. Even if it was positive, she cannot speak for me in that courtroom right? The judge would then decide who really loves the kids most by the evidence put out by actions.

The courtroom is life. The judge is your kids. your evidence is by what you do. YOU cannot speak for your wife. Its not your place anymore...period. Speak for yourself. Only for yourself. Walk your talk. Period. No more, no less. This is a interdependent person. Someone I was looking for a child to be my adult ally.

A suggestion you talked about not being co-dependent etc.. Start leaving your wife out of your life. Later you do not want your kids talking about what she does (unless its detrimental to the kids) or you speaking on her behalf on how she loves etc.. those days are over. YOU DONT KNOW HER (your own words. She has changed. So don't speak for her.

Leave it alone.... leave it alone.

[This message edited by ToastedOats at 7:11 PM, April 28th (Thursday)]

How was the weekend JM?

Weekend was OK. Got half the money for the attorney, have to get the second half.

She keeps going out, I keep taking care of the kids, but it doesn't even bother me anymore.

I've completely detached, so as long as I do the next right thing, I'm happy and I'm good.

Sorry you're here but there's nothing left to salvage

Actually there is...

My self-esteem, my value, and my self worth.

I'm gonna come out ahead in the end anyways..

You certainly are JM!

I'm so proud of you

(((hugs)))

Found out from a family member that was sworn to secrecy, that my STBXW is trying to break up with this guy now, but knows I won't take her back. Maybe she's getting tired of buying him dinner...

Way to destroy a 27 year relationship for a few months of fun.

Wasn't even gonna post this, but thought it was ironic.

her loss JM. Let her break up with him and then expect her to fall at your feet. Too little, too late from her but expect her to try

Too late for that. I don't know how many times I've said it - what was 10 times worse then the affair was how nonchalant she was about the whole thing. Zero remorse while I'm sitting there going through the pain.

But, one gift I got out of the whole thing was to stand on my own 2 feet, work on myself, realize I deserve better, and I'm gonna find someone to treat me right, because I deserve it.

It's over, but if she tries talking to me, my only question will be - "Why would you want to be with someone who does everything wrong and ruined your life? You deserve SOOOO much better then that. Good luck"

Then smile and walk away.

Perfect.

"I can't be the husband you want and need so I have to let you go"

Go dark and quit wasting time.