SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Oh yeah....mindgames is the way to go here. I also support the idea of you going home while he's on his way there.

Pay a PI to get the info on the phone number, and get the address. Get all of his clothes and put them in trash bags and dump them at that adress's front porch. Take a pic of it there and send it to him.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 2:02 PM, September 17th (Saturday)]

My wording about him making you happy was maybe too abbreviated. Now that you are aware, and it has crossed his mind that you might, he is trying to keep you in the marriage, contact you, make sure it is OK. As opposed to a cheating spouse who really really really was unhappy in the marriage, probably wouldn't call at all and be happy for the the lack of contact. Not that prior to him thinking you might know, he was not doing anything special to make you happy. But in general, he was living his normal life with you. And part of that was keeping you happy in a normal contented sort of way.

The way I see him, at the time of the affair, he was content in the marriage, then an opportunity came up and he went for it. Marriage is very boring, routine, even when sometimes boring and routine is better than huge fights and arguments and makeup passion. But long-term marriage is not big on the butterflies, the infatuation, and new and variety sex. So at the time of the affair, he probably was not unhappy, if not joyous, each day. Content.

Across his path came this other person. I doubt he sought her out, at least not seeking for an affair. He had interactions, and he felt something, maybe she flirted, maybe he did, who started it, who knows, but it went pretty quick from there. Could be it was something he did a little something for himself, you didn't have to know.

As far as "unmet needs," no, there are never unmet NEEDS, there always are unmet WANTS. Not that unmet needs are right. When it comes to affairs, the unmet wants are usually disordered or abnormal or amoral. Like, what if I had an unmet WANT to have sex with multiple women behind my wife's back? Should my wife be understanding of that? What if I call it a NEED instead of a WANT? I need water, nutrition, air, and sleep. Those are needs. The rest are wants.

Another thing to think of, which I suggest - remove your preconceptions. Right to the point - you think this was the first time he cheated? It is very very possible it is, but he has been on this planet and in relationships a fair number of years, you think this just sprouted out of nowhere five months ago? Again, it is possible, but it also is possible that he does this every now and then when someone gets his attention.

One of the most hurtful thing to me that I see here, many times the cheater uses the same modus operandi as when they first courted the loyal spouse. Same restaurants, same bringing flowers, same cards, same phrases, same pet names even. Sometimes. Enough that it is a place you can look, if you remember how it happened with you and him.

Also, how did you meet him - did he initiate or you - and how. Older people don't usually try new tricks, they stick with what they know. There is some variation and some do just start due to midlife, empty nest, family death, or some other reason, but it happens the same from other relationships that if you are wondering where to look it is worth a shot to see.

Have you tried typing the number into the search on Facebook?

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but you need to be tested for stds.

Hi Everyone, I'm really grateful and thank you for the replies and advice. To answer a few:

1. I don't really want to hire a PI. My desire to know who she is, get pics or any of that is very low priority. After reading a lot of posts, no matter what, it seems to make everyone feel worse and doesn't matter if she's prettier, younger, fitter, smarter or if she's a big step down - it all seems to heap more buckets of hurt no matter what. Not having a picture of her in my mind's eye seems to make it easier for now. I'm a bit unusual in that I'm not nor have I ever been the jealous type. Somehow early on I learned that I can't control anyone so being jealous seemed a waste of time. If someone was going to cheat, they were going to cheat, didn't care how I felt about it and today I see I was right all along.

2. Yes, I know I must get the STD test but I'm away from home right now so will have to wait until I get back but it will be done right away.

3. I did put the number in FB search but nothing came up. I also have access to my WH FB log-in and there is nothing there in messenger. I looked at his friend list and don't see anyone unusual but I also looked at those people FB says you might want to be friends with and there are some people I have no idea how they came up with them, mostly all women, so as I looked at them I wondered if perhaps one of them could be the OW. Who knows. It just made me crazy thinking about it so I logged off.

4. I went for a really lovely and long walk and took a seat at a beautiful spot in a park nearby. The weather is unusually nice and warm where I am now so it was nice to get out and clear my head a bit. I got the urge to call a best girlfriend, one who has seen me at my worst who I have known since HS (a very long time ago!) and I blurted it all out. She was stunned. Then she was pissed. Then she was sad for me. Then she offered to get on a plane and come and be with me. That's why I called her. I needed someone in my court. I declined her offer to come - she has family, a business and a boatload of responsibility but I loved her for that. I asked that she not say a word until I figured out what to do. We aren't in the same town so she can't do any drive-by PI work for me even though she offered. She was my sounding board and i have a feeling she'll be calling throughout my trip here. She agreed to keep it all quiet for now.

5. The WH texted back - "so relieved you are OK. I was worried but you must really be busy. Call me when you can. Always love hearing from you and love you. Going to tinker around the house and yard today - blah blah blah. WH" I seemed to have thrown him off the trail and he probably thinks all is OK for now.

So, my GF and I talked about what I should do. I'm leaning towards having him fly in thinking he is joining me for our planned vacation but I'll instead have flown home - probably passing each other in the night. He knows the hotel so I'll just keep it and tell him I'll leave a key at the desk for him in case I'm out, give him the room # and everything. My friend had a good idea that I should write him a letter and have it waiting for him in the room - outlining what I know. I thought that sounded like a pretty good idea. I could get him out of the way while I head home, seek legal advice (which by the way a best friend of mine is a family law attorney so I have that aced already and will set a time to speak with her) and plan my next move. I figure I have at least 24-48 hours lead time before he can possibly be back home.

So, the question I pose to all of you is - what should that letter say? I was thinking -

"Dear WH -

I KNOW. I SAW the TEXT (barf! ) I NOW SEE YOUR CALL and TEXT LOG. You are a LIAR and a CHEAT. HOW COULD YOU? 5 Months!? I AM DEVASTATED!!! You are not the person I thought you were.

You should know I am gone - when you got on the plane to meet me, I was getting on a plane back home. You're on your own - get used to it. If for some reason you want to reach out to me, be very careful about what you say - you might be better to write it down instead and there will be rules to follow if you decide to do that.

Here are MY RULES:

1. No LIES! The second I believe you are lying, conversation OVER! I will slam the door on you and our marriage and it will never open again. If you want to be 100% honest with me, I will muster all the energy I have in my weak and beaten down body and try to listen to you explain what you have done - to me, to us, our family and friends and with whoever she is.

2. Listening does not mean forgiveness. At this point, just like we always said - CHEATING means IT'S OVER. Maybe that was your mantra but now let's see if you can walk the walk. Not sure why you would ever think it didn't apply to you but hey, maybe this is what you wanted - a life without me and I was too dense to not see it.

3. There is NO PLACE in your explanation for blaming me for any of this! The second I hear anything that shifts blame to me - DOOR CLOSED. I work hard. You have always known that. You work hard, too, but I never found comfort someplace other than in your own arms. I could not give one fuck whether you were lonely. Whether I was always busy. Because I wouldn't do XYZ to you (did you ever ask me?), blah blah blah... Just putting it out there that you better tread carefully on how you explain your behavior because I'm not in the understanding or forgiving mood. It's OK to say YOU FUCKED UP, YOU WERE AN IDIOT, whatever your excuse might be. It's not OK to ever look towards me for a reason for this. Got it, cupcake?

4. WHO IS SHE? Do I know her? How? When? Why? And this is most important - DO NOT DEFEND HER TO ME! The second you try to tell me "she's nice....BOOM, door closed! I didn't want to hurt her....BOOM, DOOR CLOSED! I want to know why you did it. Why her? And I want to know what your plan is now. That's all. I don't want to know if she's younger, prettier, older, richer, poorer. I give two fucks about her physically, spiritually, socially. I just want to know WHY HER?

5. I realize I am not leaving you many options but you somehow have to find a way to explain to me how you took this lovely, formerly safe, fun, and seemingly perfect marriage and put a bullet through it's heart. What made you want to KILL US?

I have no idea whether we will weather this storm but my head says no. Your rules, remember? For my own peace of mind, I would like to know how i got it so terribly wrong. We always said we were lucky - our relationship was so easy. We found the perfect companions in each other and we would live the rest of our lives together. I never thought for a second we would be here. I am so lost. I have no idea who you are.

I have been seeking advice through other channels and I now know you should get an STD test asap. If you need to understand why you did this to us, you probably should set up an appointment with a counselor. I know I plan to. Think about who you will tell because I already told XX and I plan to let others know. This is going to kill my Mom. She loved you so much. You didn't just do this to me.

Don't call me or send me an email until you have really thought this out. And lastly, FUCK I am pissed you ruined possibly the best vacation ever planned! FUCK YOU!

BS TOC"

Thoughts? How do I make this better - more impactful? I have a few days to work it through. I want him to have the punch to the gut I got...only 10X worse!

If you do decide to try and reconcile,you have to know who she is. You can't be sure he is NC if you don't know who she is.

[This message edited by confused615 at 6:05 PM, September 17th (Saturday)]

To get to the truth quicker, I wouldn't give away exactly what you know and how, otherwise he will quickly close down those methods of communication (possibly taking the affair underground) and he will also minimise his story to include only what you know and nothing more. Just tell him you know, and he'd better confess and if he tells you anything that doesn't fit what you know or omits anything of importance it will be over.

I quite like the idea of letting him come to see you while you fly home. Though you also need to get hold of his phone again and run a text recovery program on it to see what else you can find that way.

Debra and Confused - good points. I'll hold back a bit of the info I know which truthfully is not much.

Confused - The plan is that he divulges who she is and if he doesn't, there is nothing to say and will be no R. No need to take it further underground. I won't be offering R as an option. He can bring her out from under the rock for all I care at that point. I know I sound cold hearted but believe me, I am suffering to my very core. I have always not just loved my husband but I am in love with him still. But i won't share. I won't forgive easily. At this point, my well-being is most important to me. If he can't 'fess up - not something I can control. I really don't need to know who she is before any attempt at R is even considered. It will literally just make me insane. I would obsess over her and I don't want to do that. Believe me, this is best for now.

I'm so sorry you had to join us here, but if you are in this awful situation, this is the very best place for advice and support. The people here saved my sanity

You are doing really well, you are thinking and weighing up the options. My only concern is that with the letter you've drafted you're giving your H too much information. You are giving him your expectations and I think if he does do the right thing you will never know if it's because he is a good person who made a mistake and will do everything to keep you, or if he's just really good at following directions. If you are going to get through this and end up together you need to know it's because he values you and will do the right thing to try to save the relationship

I'm not as confident as some of the other people here, who give wonderful advice, but I learnt so much here and was given such wonderful support that when I read your posts I wanted to help you

You are doing so well in giving yourself time to weigh up your options. I don't think going on holiday would be a good idea, you won't be able to enjoy it at this time, but I do like the idea of letting him fly out while you fly back. Sending him on a wild goose chase while you find out your options on your home turf would be good for you, but I don't think you should leave such a detailed letter

What's important is that whatever you do, you have to do what is best for you

Keep posting and letting us know your thoughts, you might get differing advice but that is good, you'll be able to think about all your options. Everyone who offers advice will only want what's best for you and you have found an incredibly supportive place with the most wonderful people who will support you

Remember to look after yourself, you need to keep strong

[This message edited by Drained2015 at 6:43 PM, September 17th (Saturday)]

^^^^Agreed. Never give up your sources. Tell him you know, but don't tell him how you know. Otherwise, your letter is great. I can imagine his balls shrivelling when reading it.

I'm a firm believer in giving WS one chance for complete disclosure, a detailed timeline. If he expect you to believe one syllable of what he writes, then he needs to schedule, pay for, and pass a polygraph exam that verifies the story.

No sense going over and over incomplete or false stories looking for explanations.

Remove

I KNOW. I SAW the TEXT (barf! ) I NOW SEE YOUR CALL and TEXT LOG. You are a LIAR and a CHEAT. HOW COULD YOU? 5 Months!? I AM DEVASTATED!!! You are not the person I thought you were.

Just say that you know without a doubt that he is having an affair but would like him to write out a timeline of the affair.

I would try to take some of the emotions out of the letter, and not answer the questions for him... you want to see how he will answer unaided.

Don't tell him you know it's 5 months see what he tells you. Don't tell him you saw the text log, let him sweat how you know, how much you know, and what to tell you.

hey, maybe this is what you wanted - a life without me and I was too dense to not see it.

This makes you sound weak ... begging for him to say he wants you. This is no longer HIS choice.

#3 I'd just say no blame shifting, I did not cause you to have an affair and not write out the details of what you don't want to hear.

#4 I wouldn't admit that I didn't know who she was but make sure to demand a timeline that includes everything.... it should have her name in it.

I like the idea of him flying out and getting the letter. You can tell him to not bother flying home until has an honest timeline of events.

I like the part about how giving you honest answers does not mean you forgive him.

There is a similar thread on here from a while back by "SpaceGhost" that is very similar. I'll try to pull if up if I can find it. They had a wonderful marriage, and had discussed that cheating was a deal-breaker. She cheated on him but didn't want a divorce.... It just shows that you can have a wonderful marriage and be cheated on.

Freeme - and all -- wow, thank you so much! Of course I shouldn't give so much away. I need to let him come at me with all of it. Reading through all the posts I guess I am really trying to avoid TT and just get to the bottom of it. I am way too "matter of fact" for my own good. I will just tell him I KNOW. End of story. Don't insult me - give me the truth, the timeline and who she is. And yes, no putting myself down. I'll turn that "maybe you wanted me out" to "I'm way too good for this and you blew a good thing." I'll figure it out.

Wow, like I said, can't thank you all enough. He is NOT going to know what hit him. I am so glad I had the wherewithall to think this through and avoid some possible game changing mistakes. I know no matter I will stumble but at least I can minimize all that.

Hugs to all of you!

[This message edited by TurnOtherCheek at 7:42 PM, September 17th (Saturday)]

My two cents.... You have been traumatized, are in disbelief that the marriage you thought you had is a lie. That's going to take some processing. I'm glad you get some time off to breathe and think and that you are already prioritizing your needs as first. You are in a position of strength, no small kids to consider or financial restrictions that could impact your decision making.

TOC, you get to choose what you want. Your written thoughts are good, clear and thorough. I would make my first demand very brief. He comes 100% clean with every detail and be willing to take a polygraph to prove he is telling the truth and you will determine where it goes from there. That the choice is his. He can agree or not. Based on that information and findings, I would save the rest of the letter for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th conversations. You will be mucking through this for a while, even if you D. It's not clean cut like a business deal. Both of your emotions will be all over the place as you assimilate what's happened to you. You will grieve, deeply. So will he.

At this point he deserves nothing from you. Nothing. He gave up that right when he chose to dip his stick where it didn't belong. Stay strong and smart, you're doing really well. I mean, surprisingly well under the circumstances. Rest, take care of you, get outdoors, sleep, see a movie and drink lots of water. You're in for a ride.

Definitely don't reveal your sources or the extent of what you know.

When I found out about my wife's affair, I had his name, number, knew what he looked like and had a good idea of when it started. I was having a really hard time keeping my emotions under wraps -- something I'm normally VERY good at -- but I was visibly crushed. When she asked what was wrong I just blurted out his name. If I could do it over again I would have told her I know she has been keeping something from me, just to see how much she would divulge.

Do you think he suspects you know something?

OK everyone - my head is swirling and my heart is aching. It's late here now and the sadness surrounds me again and the tears won't stop. This sucks big time. When I first saw that text, understood the significance of it and then realized I was leaving for just over a week, I thought there was no way I was going to be able to handle this. The truth is, being forced away from WH these last days has probably saved me from doing some really stupid things - has helped me consider how to be the one in the power position here and has helped me get centered - if that is possible. But damn does this suck!

I do realize I am spared the really tough obstacles like finances and kids but I have been there and done that and paid those dues years ago. I do believe going through that has helped me be more level-headed here but I still can NOT believe I sit in this position again.

I have no idea how he is going to react. I do know that I will be even more pissed if he gets pissed about getting here and finding I'm not here. I'm hoping he'll be devastated but clearly I don't know him nearly as well as I thought I did. His reaction could be all over the place.

I went to the "chemist" (pharmacy) here and I got the equivalent of advil PM and also picked up a bottle of wine. A hot bath, glass of wine and sleep aids are in order for tonight. I hope I sleep until the afternoon and give my mind a chance to quiet down.

I did send WH another text - told him I took a nice stroll in the park, told him the weather was nice and acted as "normal" as I could under the circumstances. I didn't tell him I missed him. I didn't tell him I couldn't wait until he got here. I didn't tell him I loved him - all things I always say without hesitation before that awful text message. He hasn't texted back yet and that was about an hour ago. Of course my mind wonders why not, especially as he was SO worried about me - but I refuse to let my mind go there.

Just one thing - there is no way that text meant anything other than exactly what it said, right? "I can't wait to be in you again. xox" It implies intercourse. It implies multiple times. Correct? Could there have been a more perfect text to prove an affair? I think not! His explanation should be priceless.

Good night my inter web friends. 24 hours ago I wouldn't have believed this kind of support was possible. I thank god for each of you tonight.

TOC

Just one thing - there is no way that text meant anything other than exactly what it said, right? "I can't wait to be in you again. xox" It implies intercourse. It implies multiple times. Correct? Could there have been a more perfect text to prove an affair? I think not! His explanation should be priceless.

Yep, yep and yep. Sorry

You'll probably get the cheaters script "we're just friends".

That many calls/texts can mean only one thing. It's good you know what this is and where you are at this time. Many live in denial which just keeps them in limbo longer.

Good luck to you.

Oh I'm so impressed with you!!!! Truly, you are handling this like a champ. So many of us wish we had played our cards differently in the beginning. It sucks ass to be here but you found the best people on earth to guide you through. Use us! Post before you act! We are here to help you.

Here are my thoughts. Make sure you disable any ways that he can monitor your location. Are you on an iPhone? I can show you how to turn off the frequent locations. If he has an iPhone, it's unlikely he has turned it off and you'll find a ton of info there. Find my iPhone too.

I think your letter is far too long. You're giving up too much information. I would get in touch with an attorney and have papers drawn up on Monday. I would let him fly there while you fly home. No letter, no info. Let him scramble around and try to figure out WTF is happening and where you are.m You come home, bag his shit up and leave in it in the living room. Tape the divorce papers in the entry way or put them on his car seat in his car at the airport.

Divorce takes a long time. You're not there yet. But I think it's crucial that he realizes that 1) YOU ARE NOT FUCKING AROUND, 2) he has one chance to get this shit right 3) you are far smarter and strategic than he ever realized. Oh yes, he has fooled you up until now but the gig is up.

I'm also a bitch. But happily reconciled!

Edited to add: yes, there is only one meaning to that text. And he deleted it confirming what you know.

[This message edited by Alaska77 at 10:39 PM, September 17th (Saturday)]

Turn: Are you certain you are covered financially here?

In addition to getting STD tested a quick consult with an attorney and securing your assets is best, maybe even before you confront? Not sure what the standard SI advice is on that, but WH knows the spotlight is on him - I just don't want you to get hurt anymore.

You seem pretty savvy and "have been though this before" so . . . that would be my second concern after you health - mental and physical.

After that - confront the SOB - yes there is no excuse for that text and it means exactly how you interpreted it.

You need to plan for as clean an exit as possible here, while considering Reconciliation.

Doc>Attorney>Confront>Move Forward with some IC and a new life (maybe, certainly a changed life) for you.

Good Luck!!

[This message edited by ChangingChump at 11:04 PM, September 17th (Saturday)]

I disagree with whomever stated divorce cannot be straight forward like a business deal. You are self sufficient and share no children. You've been down this road before in a previous marriage. Life is truly too short to spend it with a lying cheater.

Here's what I would recommend:

Let him fly to Europe to "meet you". Leave him a letter that says...

Dear (his name),

I know. That is all. The end.

Signed,

Your Wife

Fly home, and file for divorce. Secure your finances. Change the locks on the house (assuming you will keep the house) or move your belongings elsewhere immediately.

Go completely dark. Have him served. At work would be great.

Here's the thing. You're at least middle aged, given your history and having grown children. You're financially secure. You've been down this road before. There is NO WAY I would willingly walk through the shit storm of attempted reconciliation again. Ever. There is not a human being on this planet worth the pain involved with infidelity under your circumstances.

It will hurt. There's no way around that. But I honestly believe the sooner you get yourself on the road to healing, the faster the process will be. I would cut this man out of my life like a cancerous tumor, and I wouldn't look back.