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TOC, I've been following much of this thread, although I haven't read it all. But just want to say your story is very similar to mine. My XWH was also texting/sexting OW, and he accidentally sent it to me (and DD17). The shock and pain were just excruciating. He also begged me not to leave him, said he was glad it was over, it never meant anything - all the usual. I kicked him out immediately, and filed for D soon after. 24 years of M, gone. For me, the LTA was a deal breaker. My XWH's A, like your WH's, was not just a "mistake." All the selfish lies, the plans, the texts and phone calls, the secret hook ups, etc. were too much. I knew that I could never trust a man with such a lack of empathy and integrity. I just want to say that filing for D was the absolute best decision I have ever made. I'm sure you are having some moments of doubt, and wondering if your M could somehow recover from this. I was tempted at times to rug sweep and just have it all go away. But I made it though, and my life is good. You will be okay.

StayStrong - that is exactly what I needed to hear! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! I'm glad you're doing so well.

Turn,

You did such a great job with your self care over the weekend. It's a great sign that you have the right support system in place, your manager is on board, and you have your own personal activities to help your mind and body.

What struck me about the conversation is that he has not accepted ownership for the betrayal. He termed being "pressured" on a couple of occasions. One resulted in her being in your home while the two of you were gone. The other time was getting together with her as you were leaving town and her two day trip. He isn't a candidate for reconciliation until he owns what happened.

He felt strongly I knew but convinced himself otherwise

This is from you recounting the JFK conversation with him. He statement then varies dramatically from what he said in your recent conversation where he panicked.

This, coupled with the information that Bob pushed him more than once to end it tells me that he wasn't pressured or panicked at the time.

Is it possible that you can make arrangements with him to be absent from the house when you get the final things? You can have some text/e-email discussions to come to an agreement about the furniture, etc.. Then you local Team TOC can help you move as they did before.

Another "business" aspect has to do with the boat and RV. I was fearful that he had brought her to one or both. A guy would do that to show off his toys. I still have the opinion that you should not walk away from them. Clearly, they are tainted and you don't want anything to do with them. Think in terms of taking the proceeds and gift them to your children or set up a nest egg if you move to Europe. Too triggery that you funded part of a f'ing love nest and leave them with him.

Level Headed TOC will make the best call on these business things. I remember your initial post said that your were level headed, sometimes to a fault. This seems to me to be a remarkable attribute to draw on in times of crisis. And still allowing your pain and emotions out.

I love hearing that you are now at a place where you can take time and be open to options as they unfold. Sounds like a healthy, healing place to be at this time.

TL

I surrounded myself with friends to keep from wallowing. I shared my previous phone call with them, too, and no one judged me for calling him. They picked apart everything he said, too.

It is really good that you're opening up for real-life support from real, present, human beings. Lots don't, so good on you!

He really didn't want to go over that (no surprise) but the way he phrased it was of course he didn't want to hurt me, he didn't want to relive the ugly thoughts attacking his mind about the affair, etc.

Yeah, deflecting and avoiding. Oh, selfishly not wanting to allow you to rebuild the story of your life because that would be uncomfortable for him. We'll hit that story of your life thing again in a minute (I just cannot think of the right words for that. PERSONAL NARRATIVE - that's the word).

After some coaxing from me (because evidently I love the pain)

No, you do not love the pain. It is, in this case, necessary. Here's why.

Each person carries with them their own personal narrative, the story, facts, events, of how they got to where they are today and how their life has been and is. Your H's A blew that narrative out of the water and then sunk it without a trace. Boom! Glug. Gone.

Leaving you foundering in your life. How the _fuck_ did I get here, you ask yourself. How the fuck did I get here, you ask us. How the fuck did I get here, you ask your H.

The pain is the difference between perception and reality, between what-you-think and what-is. The bigger the difference upon finding out something the bigger the pain _and_ the bigger the amount of processing that must happen to adjust the perceived course of your life to the real course of your life.

In the R forum the WS and BS are told that the BS will ask the same questions about what happened over and over and over. I did when I JFO, both times. Over and over. To the point that I realized that I just wasn't capable of assimilating the information during question-and-lie time, so I started writing everything down. I didn't have a smart phone then (either time) with Voice Activated Recording capabilities.

You are rebuilding your personal narrative. You are filling in the gaps and, my friend TOC, that takes time and that hurts and I'm sorry that you're having to do it but it is yours to do and you have to. If it is any consolation, you have been so very much quicker on the uptake than I was. Scant consolation, but true.

If I might suggest an exercise - take the immediately previous post of yours and your other phone call one, copy and paste into Notepad or something and then re-write and add bits until you have a timeline of your life. Start from where it all started going pear-shaped and end with today. This will be your reality-check, your what-is instead of what-I-think-is, and it may help you.

well, now his boat

Now, now, marital asset! You get half or half the value. I'd suggest either left or right half because I think that that will result in faster sinking in the marina. Got a chainsaw? I do. Two.

because she was very upset he was going on vacation with me

She saw another way to manipulate her future meal ticket. _Seriously_, is his mind that wrapped around his dick? I suspect that this isn't her first rodeo (not at that age) and that she knows how to play men like a fiddle. That's what boundaries and healthy skepticism and Transactional Analysis are for.

I've had women come on to me in my life. I might be a jaded, suspicious old man (if so I was also a jaded, suspicious young one), but one of the first things I ask myself when they start getting all romantically chummy is, "Why?" I'm the statistical embodiment of the Caucasian, U.S. of A. male. There's a billion of me to pick from. So, why me? What does she get out of it?

Clearly, she has very strong feelings for him.

More likely for his lifestyle and wallet. That's jaded dm again.

He said in his mind now, he thinks he wanted it over. To have it come out. To be done with it. The end of the affair. He didn't call it relief but he said he felt some sense of finality and a lifting of the weight.

You know, I tend to call bullshit on all of this sort of "I secretly wanted it found out" thing. Especially the after-the-fact application of it to explain stupid mistakes. IMHO, he made a stupid mistake and he doesn't have to appear quite so ineffective if he dresses it up in tights and a tutu. Now, "silent cry for help" and the like _does_ exist, but you can usually detect more of a lead in, more repeated behaviors, more _signs_ that that is what is coming out.

Who knows, perhaps he's especially effective at the "unknown cry for help" thing than the average. If so, he needs to rethink that whole strategy, especially in light of previous agreements that cheating equals divorce.

I'm going for the tights and a tutu theory, myself. Lipstick on a pig is his "wanted it to come out" thing. Sounded good, all dramatic and sad though, didn't it? Mad props for drama and pathos.

He said time stood still.

I've had this happen. Usually while I'm struggling to hold my sphincter closed right after some awful error that I've made.

When he realized the extent of his mistake, he said it shocked him back into reality.

Because that's when he came right home after being caught-because-he-wanted-to and confessed everything, revealed everything, and then started work on himself... Oh, wait, that didn't happen.

He texted her he wasn't coming over. He told her he couldn't talk and would reach out later

I do believe this part of his narrative. Notice that it is pretty factual and not a lot of good-sounding contrition being lathered over the top. Oh, wait...

(because at that moment he said the idea of the affair literally filled him with shame - you know because being caught will do that!)

Ah, the missing contrition from the previous sentence. I believe that he sat there trying to figure out how to pull the wool over your eyes once again.

And then he said he deleted all their texts and blocked her.

I believe the first _and_ the second. He deleted the texts in case you found his phone and demanded that he open it and he blocked her so she wouldn't be blowing up his phone whilst the shit was hitting the fan at home.

And, in so doing, he protected himself, her, and their precious A, all at the same time and at the expense of only one person in this. You! Blunderboy deserves a pat on the back.

And then he waited for my reply and it never came.

Now _this_ is the point where I'm interested in what was _really_ going on in his mind. This is a panic point for him. I wonder, were his thoughts of self-protection and "never letting her know" or were his thoughts of "OMG, how could I hurt TOC so much."

In the days that followed the best that he could do was _not_ google up "how to help my spouse recover", but was instead "Siri, where do I buy flowers near me?"

I go back and read my posts and your responses and sometimes I think I'm peeking into someone else's life and it's not my life at all. It's surreal. I can't help but wonder how this all happened. How blind-sided I was.

Your personal narrative was shattered. This is the trauma reaction. And the beginnings of rebuilding that personal narrative. This is the evidence of the inner drive to get that personal narrative rebuilt.

It really feels like I'm driving down the road singing happily in my car to the radio and out of nowhere, I'm broad-sided by a speeding truck and my life is never again the same. Completely. Totally. Out. Of. My. Control.

This is what reality is like. If I might suggest, google up "The Flitcraft Parable", a page-ish passage from Dashiell Hammett's The Maltese Falcon. He really nailed it with this short piece of writing. It got cut from the movie, but it is an important part of the book because it shows us a bit of Hammett's personal philosophy. And it is a very realistic portrayal of what people do.

There are still choices, even in making final choices.

Yep, very true.

Looking out 2-3 months, I see myself as single, living in a short term rental, doing yoga, being a mom, focused at work, hanging with friends and working on mending my broken heart. WH is not in the picture other than handling the "business of breaking-up" with dividing the household, closing an account and definitely separating phone services so I stop having access to his phone history. (I hate that whole checking up on him thing.)

That sounds like an excellent plan. With one minor possibility? The division of assets can occur between your representative and him or his representative. Hire an appraiser, look over the list, mark what you want, and negotiate for item or value.

That's an option if you're not feeling emotionally strong enough to deal with him.

Devoted man - you are a wise, wise man and spot on with everything.

I just want to clarify that WH is not getting to keep my share of anything! I just simply meant by never wanting to see that boat again, he could keep it and cough up my half. He shouldn't worry that I would want to fight over that piece of tainted hardware!

TOC, I don't come to JFO very often because the stories are just too painful for me yet. I see to much of what my WW did and said in them. Sometimes I just want to scream - NO, NO, NO. When your thread first appeared I read and have followed and posted.

There are a couple of things recently that I'm going to disagree with here. I agree with staystrong101. Adultery isn't a mistake. Not even a ONS. There are numerous consciously made and deliberate decisions and choices made. IMO, one won't have a ONS unless one is open to it in the first place. Longer term adultery involves all that staystrong101 says - lies, plans, secret getting together even for coffee, organization, etc. Not a mistake - a deliberate choice.

I also am of the opinion you don't need to kill the marriage. You aren't killing it. Someone else already did that. That marriage is dead and you didn't do it. You are identifying the body and signing the death certificate, nothing more.

You will wonder if you are doing the right thing. It's natural. Second thoughts. But you know in your mind, I believe, and that you had a very firm and specific boundary about betrayal. I continue to wish you clarity of thought and strength of mind. You have both.

I hope he gets the boat in the settlement.

edited to add an image but who knows if I did it right

[This message edited by OngoingProcess at 9:50 AM, October 18th (Tuesday)]

OMG, Ongoing - you rock! This made me spit coffee all over my office desk!!!! Thanks for the laugh.

Lalagirl nailed it - my M as I knew it is dead. I don't want that M back. So the only choice for me is to end it. Kill it off. Put it out of its misery. Who knows where the relationship with WH goes from here but I guarantee it is not back to what it was pre-sext message to OW. Nope. Not gonna happen.

TOC, when you read that text, it was all over in a blinding flash. You had decisive information and the experience of a prior affair to know it can happen and what to do.

My experience came like a slow death by cancer.

I also believe my marriage was killed (more like tortured to death) by the affair.

I view my new marriage starting about 10 months ago, after my WW finally confessed to all and passed the polygraph. I want no part of that marriage -- the verbal and emotional abuse and utter lack of respect. It all burned away with the affair. While I still do have the same wife, the marriage I have now is completely different.

Yes the agony and pain of the affair (and prior disrespect) is still very much overwhelming at times. But I chose my boundaries now and enforce them. She has fully agreed and is complying with eagerness. It truly is a new marriage.

Ten months from now I will not be celebrating my 25th wedding anniversary. That marriage is dead and gone. I feel to do so would be like celebrating the birthday of child that was murdered. It somewhat enraged me that people who knew of the affair (after DDay) congratulated me on my 24th wedding anniversary. They have no idea what that day means to me now.

My point here is that, yes, your marriage is indeed dead. But that does not limit what you do afterwards. It is 100% up to you, be it alone, with someone else, or with you STBXH. Take the high road and be kind even when he was cruel. You are still so soon after your DDay. There is no need to burn any bridges.

And, for the record, I think your current course of divorce is also the best way to reconcile with your husband, should you chose to do so. Actions certainly have consequences and he needs to experience them.

Devoted man - you are a wise, wise man and spot on with everything.

Agreed! Wonderful job breaking it into bite-sized pieces...easier to digest and his explanations on each perfectly succinct.

Each person carries with them their own personal narrative, the story, facts, events, of how they got to where they are today and how their life has been and is. Your H's A blew that narrative out of the water and then sunk it without a trace. Boom! Glug. Gone.

Leaving you foundering in your life. How the _fuck_ did I get here, you ask yourself. How the fuck did I get here, you ask us. How the fuck did I get here, you ask your H.

The pain is the difference between perception and reality, between what-you-think and what-is. The bigger the difference upon finding out something the bigger the pain _and_ the bigger the amount of processing that must happen to adjust the perceived course of your life to the real course of your life.

I absolutely cannot think of a better way to describe exactly how it feels to struggle for the truth while trying to figure out how it fits. I am stunned by this description. Just stunned by the perfection it contains.

I rarely post, but do still read. I do remember the gut wrenching hurt and anger. The need to throw his ass out and move forward. And the fear of doing that.

Short version, I gave myself 6 months before making a life altering decision. Some of the time he was remorseful, some of the time he was angry and a real jerk. I kept to my plan.

Now 15 years later life is good. We retired to a beautiful country place. Our old marriage died and was buried. We do everything together, we hold hands while walking. We are comfortable with each other.

I still have some moments when I get paranoid. Luckily they are getting more rare

Each one of us must make their own choice. I just wanted to give a perspective not shared often.

Good luck with your decision and best wishes for a good life.

He shouldn't worry that I would want to fight over that piece of tainted hardware!

...

piece of tainted hardware

...

tainted hardware

Him? Or the boat?

The pain is the difference between perception and reality, between what-you-think and what-is. The bigger the difference upon finding out something the bigger the pain _and_ the bigger the amount of processing that must happen to adjust the perceived course of your life to the real course of your life.

Perfection.

For f&^k's sake, WH had a bicycle accident yesterday and has broken his leg plus other scrapes and contusions!!!!!

I need strength please to not want to offer to help take care of him!!!!! Holy hell. See, this is why you honor your marriage vows so that in time of need, there actually is someone there to care and care for you. My first impulse is to care for him...UGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Stay strong TOC. Not your circus, not your monkeys. He will try to use this to hoover you back in. Nothing has changed except he needs your help now. Don't get sucked back in.

No, do not do it.

This is his consequence for cheating and blowing up a marriage and his promises and vows.

How long would this go on, how many years, how many scrapes, how many lung infections, how many illnesses?

We get that you care. We get that you want to offer him succor. Let the dog lady do it. He made his choice months ago and it wasn't the M and it wasn't you.

And probably hurt and I'm sorry but it is the truth.

devoted and CheaterMagnet - I know! I know! It is what I needed to hear but damn....I know. Wish I still had the flowers he sent me. I'd send them back to him.

TOC I know exactly how you feel. It's hard to turn off that loving nurturing nature towards your WH like that but as CheaterMagnet and devotedman bot said he made his choice so now it is not your problem any more.

My husband has a few health conditions where I have had to fully care for him in the past and as he ages they are going to get worse. Why didn't he think of this too when he was cheating. Are one of his many OWs going to move to the US to look after him.

They really should think more before they blow up our lives like that.

Wish I still had the flowers he sent me. I'd send them back to him.

This would be so awesome!!

My WH had a massive heart attack and was on life support for 2 weeks. I dropped everything and flew to be with him. I was there for a month. I put my entire life on hold and went into financial ruin for him. When he came out of the coma he swore up and down he was a changed man. He wanted me and our life and he would spend the rest of his life being the husband I deserved, blah, blah, blah. Here we are 3 months later and he's pretty much back to his old crap. I'm back to getting my ducks in a row and get the hell out.

Don't be me. Don't waste another second of your life on this guy. Like Devotedman said, if he really wanted to change, he'd be working on it. Instead he's just begging. That means nothing. Believe me.