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Yeah, i guess the proof will be in the pudding. I stopped feeling as great about this "breakthrough" anyways. Im not thinking about OM as much but thinking much more about my ww. I just dont know what to so with all this. I love her and am scared what things will be like if I D but I'm not sure I'll be able to work past this.

What are you "scared" of? How old are you if I may ask? Unless you live in Syria and an airstrike can hit you any moment, I doubt Western life is that scary on a day-to-day basis. I would suggest you atleast think about a trial/temporary separation. It will do a couple of things:

1> Drive it home to your WW that you are confident enough to leave, and put her on notice.

2> Get some personal space so you can think logically and clearly, away from a WW who will obviously be love-bombing you in a desperate attempt to extinguish a fire she herself has lit.

Once you move out, you will realize that there is nothing "scary" about living by yourself.

Desert,

You are overanalyzing stuff. If she had chatted on and on for six hours, you would be wondering about her insecurities and how false she might be. Since she chatted for “only” six minutes you think she doesn’t care.

I made this comment about the trip way back:

In fact, you could use it as a great tool for BOTH of you to gather your wits and decide how to progress. In fact – I would suggest you two agree to minimal contact and use the time to realize if you miss each other.

There is some contradiction in the advice offered:

We suggest you detach and then we wonder how you can “allow” her to make this journey…

I think this trip of hers and your views on it display your ability to detach!

I actually think A LOT in your attitude is spot-on. You seem to have grasped that it’s really not within your control if she cheats or not – if she commits to the marriage or not. You control what you can control and then you need to evaluate from her actions and behaviors whether she’s moving in the same direction as you are. Like it or not then FOR NOW it might fall on you to be the pulling force in working on your marriage.

That’s not sustainable forever though. At some point your wife needs to step up. But even then… IMHO she already has done quite a lot: IC, MC, tackled the HR issue (eventually). Is it enough for you? Is it fast enough for you? Well… that’s your call. Personally I place little value in the right-off-the-bat-straight-from-day-one-hair-tearing-hysterical-sobbing-remorsefull-former-never-aga in-wayward-spouse. I think TRUE remorse takes time before it’s not diluted by true regret.

The key-issue you want form her right now are two IMHO:

The realization that reconciliation is based on both of you wanting it. That “want” is not a forgone conclusion set in stone. She has to be very clear that YOU have options and that you are willing to walk away if you feel there isn’t progress. At the same time, she too has that prerogative…

Honesty… She is totally free to do whatever she wants. There is NOTHING preventing her from seeing OM or doing ANYTHING that might damage the marriage. The ONLY thing you ask from her is honesty. If OM was with her in her hotel-room in Vietnam then that would be OK… AS LONG as she was honest about it and told you. That way YOU can decide what to accept and how to react.

Just like she’s totally capable of and free to continue the affair YOU are totally free and capable of determining how much YOU can take and are willing to accept. Either path – divorce or reconciliation – is going to be hard and I think redbaron007 puts it quite well – it’s not as if you are getting bombed. If she walks out the minute she’s back… you will be fine. If you pack her stuff and ask her to leave… you will be fine. If you work for 12 months on R and it doesn’t work… you will be fine. If you two reconnect, work really hard at R and create the best marriage EVER… you will be fine. Treated correctly this experience CAN have a silver lining – no matter who’s beside you once out of infidelity.

[This message edited by Bigger at 5:07 AM, November 22nd (Tuesday)]

Desert, your wife traveling abroad with another woman is not a good sign for R IMO. R is hard work , but especially for the wayward. After Dday my wife's main goal was to help me heal. She was always there to listen ,answer questions , etc. There were times we talked in the middle of the night and she would constantly be checking in with me during the day to see how I was doing.

Going away there is no chance to work on healing the devistation that she caused. Always go by actions vs words. How is going away like that evidence of remorse? To me it would indicates the exact opposite . How do you know the OM isn't there as well? I would look at the evidence with an open mind and reassess where you really are and whether she is really working on the marriage and herself.

She did message me tonight asking to chat. I guess her friend was in the room with her last night, so that makes more sense... Idk about HR. She won't have access to any texts or emails from work while she's gone. I do not have access to her texts but have the ability to log into her email whenever. She deleted everything as soon as it was read, so there won't be anything to see there if she is continuing the A (which I really really don't think is happening).

What did she want to chat about?

Why is she deleting everything as soon as she reads it, that is not openness or rebuilding trust. Why is she deleting all of her texts, that is as wrong as it gets.

Are you even sure if she contacted HR?

You already said yourself, she deletes everything so there wont be anything to see if the affair continues...you dont think the affair continues, so why would she be deleting everything.

Something does not sound right here.

Okay, I meant she had deleted all of the correspondences with OM as soon as she had read them. She is not currently deleting all her texts or emails. I meant that having access to her stuff is pointless because if she wants to cheat, she's not a moron about it. I can't stop her from cheating. I don't think she is cheating. Yes, I KNOW she told HR. We sent emails to them and I saw the chain. They definitely know.

Redbaron- I'm 30. I'm scared of the unknown. I've never been a big risk taker and "jumping" is difficult. I'm not scared about my safety or anything like that. I just don't want to make a HUGE mistake and regret it the rest of life. R or D is that HUGE decision that will effect my life and I could make a big mistake either way.

Bigger- Thanks. That is basically how I am looking at it now. There is NOTHING I can do to keep her from cheating or do/not do something. If she wants to smoke crack and become a prostitute, there is nothing I can do to stop that. She has not to not want to cheat anymore and has to decide if she thinks I'm worth it to change. We shall see.

1survivor- I am 99.999999% sure OM is out of our lives (at least from A perspective). She turned him into HR. He probably HATES her at this point.

Thanks. That is basically how I am looking at it now. There is NOTHING I can do to keep her from cheating or do/not do something. If she wants to smoke crack and become a prostitute, there is nothing I can do to stop that. She has not to not want to cheat anymore and has to decide if she thinks I'm worth it to change. We shall see.

How long are you going to wait?

She seems rather aloof about the entire situation with her across the world vacation.

Is the OM back at work this week?

Craig, I have no idea, haha. I don't work there, she's not there. I'm not going to call HR about it. It's been reported, it's out of all of our hands at this point. Whatever HR and her company decide to do, is up to them. I would assume they are going to try to minimize risk to the company. Like someone else stated, they may do a shit job of this, but I would be ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED, if they let my wife report to him again. They may have to work together if he isn't fired but it will never be 1on1. Besides, like I said, I'm sure he HATES her at this point. She reported him to HR, something has happened where he hasn't been at the office all last week and there is a definite possibility of him losing his job over her reporting it. That bridge between them has been burned.

Don't be so sure DM. My wife reported her AP to internal affairs a few months ago. The idiot tried to contact her again. We played him along until we got to internal affairs again. And yes, I was with her both times we reported it.

Why would the AP want to keep things going with the person who is essentially ratting them out? Haha, that makes 0 sense. Well, I guess we'll see. He hasn't contacted her at all. If he gets fired, I think that is when he will try to contact her.

Why to want him to keep it going?

1 Sex (he knows she is attracted to him, she was willing to risk her marriage over it.

2 If she bites in his contact, the case against him crumbles.

Risk takers and risk averse - read the threads here and identify if one spouse is a risk taker and the other is risk averse and see if there is a pattern. What I see is that almost to a thread, the cheater is a risk taker and the betrayed is risk averse. The cheaters press the limits, the betrayed are afraid to hold their grounds. Read some threads and see if you agree.

I have no advice, you are doing OK given your goal.

That is spot on in my case. I have no stomach for risks when it's serious.

You're right about the reasons why he would contact her. We'll have to see. I still can't believe that she was willing to potentially throw away everything we have and have created for a fling with this guy. Does it show how unhappy/insecure she is, that a little praising and complimenting is enough to risk it all? I guess, I think so. :(

Does it show how unhappy/insecure she is, that a little praising and complimenting is enough to risk it all? I guess, I think so. :(

No, it shows how shallow and selfish she is, not how unhappy she is. She was quite happy having you as a husband and an affair partner on the side.

Dude, as politely as I can say this, you need to stand up for yourself. You're scared of losing her, but not scared of being in a shitty marriage for the rest of your life?

Having an affair IS NOT a solution to fixing anything that may have been wrong with the marriage. It is absolutely HER character flaw. One that is unacceptable in a healthy marriage.

Prior to discovering this affair, would you have quit your job to keep your marriage, if it was the only way to save it for some strange reason? Of course you would have. You wouldn't have thought twice about it, because a job can always be replaced.

Your wife is showing you exactly where her priorities are and you aren't on top of them, even if it's the words she says. You have to embrace the fact that your wife lies. She has a lot of work to understand how damaging that is. You, too.

Desert,

If she is like my wife, she would risk everything: a great and loving husband of 20 years, her dental practice, the respect of her patients and friends, living with her 5 children... for what? About 24 hours of "togetherness" plus some talking on the phone and some text messages.

We aren't talking about risk / reward. He was ten years older, a serial adulterer, a pauper, a leach with no future and no morals and no responsibility. This was lose-lose-lose for everyone, but mainly for her. She just flushed everything down the toilet.

So why did my wife do it?

At first it was just an escape. She was just corresponding with a "friend" after all.

She became addicted to the way he made her feel with compliments and attention.

And that's it. No reason, no logic, no cost/risk/benefit. It was just plain stupid and she made utterly cruel and destructive decisions. That's what she admits to now.

It took her 7 instances of me catching her "texting", "meeting", "facetiming" and finally getting papers to her for our divorce. It took her a year to be fully out of it. Sometimes they are just too selfish and addicted to do what they should.

She just kept at it until she could no longer. She pushed me till I said, "That's it. I'm done with you." She even asked her own 15 year old daughter to help cover up her affair. That's insane.

Even then she still viewed him as a kind man that was just lonely and broken. It took a lot of work together before she could see the monster that he is. She sees it now. She sees herself as a horrible person now too. She is not, but she did do horrible things for quite some time. The damage she did to everyone just keeps bleeding out.

One more thing... Just because you don't file for divorce doesn't mean your being risk averse. NOT FILING for divorce much sooner actually increased the risk of my wife and I not reconciling. The damage to me was greatly increased. My resentment and anger is overwhelming at times--much of it inflicted as I forgave her over and over and gave her one more chance for our family... and as she screwed him again and again. I though I was just not being clear enough with my boundaries, not communicating well enough my agony at her actions. No, she knew what I meant. She knew. She just didn't want to stop fucking him yet.

So look at the risk of your marriage surviving as this OM predator continues to pillage your wife and your marriage, as your wife throws herself off the cliff of sanity. Inaction in such conditions increased the damage and increases the risk of ruin.

Good luck Desert. Be strong and take action.

NP5

I don't know why for her, and I think it could be a combination.

I have my opinion for why your wife did it:

1 She was relatively happy but routine, not "butterfly in the stomach" excited.

2 She took you for granted that you would never leave her (she probably knows you better than you know yourself)

3 Plus, she didn',t think you would catch her, so you would never know

4 The other times she broke boundaries, flirted, went too close with a male, even cheated, either you didn't know or you did very little about it

5 The other man was marginally physically attractive but he was bold, arrogant (to her, confident, to you, an arrogant ass), aggressive, powerful (her "superior"), he made her feel DESIRED and FEMININE, intelligent and skillful (more than her) so she could respect that from him, SUCCESSFUL at work and financially (he has a beach house, perceptions) possibly, likely, other female workers have expressed they found him attractive, she felt like the "prize" he chose her - add as many of these as you want - my experience, power is an aphrodisiac (as a teenager as an employee at a fast food restaurant, female workers swooned at the assistsnt branch manager, and I've seen it many times since then with my own eyes with the "boss"), definitely two things he had was humor and confidence (likely arrogance, but that's another story - you can't be too cocky sometimes and this looks like one of those times)

6 She transferred her allegiance from you to him at some point.

7 Your lack of psychic abilities hurt you in her eyes, here she was obviously falling in love and you couldn't even see the obvious signs (she probably gave you some lack of loving words or affection actions and you didn't notice it, not really, "obvious" except in her mind) and she has some immature idea that her "soulmate" would have noticed this, so you must really not be the true soulmate, maybe the other man is, maybe it is "fate" and "destiny" (this is from my youth of having a sister's bedroom next to mine and me hearing such horseshit regularly, plus having another adult sister getting married and being an adult in every possible way - smart, reliable, mature - EXCEPT for matters of the heart, her "love" mindset was set back at age 13-14-15 mentality - as were so, so many friends of theirs).

I don't know why she would risk it really, I can only guess and give you some ideas, you are in the position to see which shit flies, if any.

wk55hn- I think you are spot on with most of these reasons. The coincide with what she has told me. I agree that she knows me well. I didn't do much of anything about the kiss at the wedding. Just told it was okay, she was drunk, and be careful; don't let it happen again. She was super sad and upset about it and promised "NO MORE".

And here we are...

drifter- No, I am scared of both. That's what I was getting at in my post above. It's scary because either decision could be the wrong one. No way to tell, and as I said, I am not one to just "jump". And yes, she always wanted to live somewhere cool and different and I told her I would go with her. I turned my father down on being a partner because I didn't want to make things messy for whenever we decided to leave for a while/ever to somewhere new. You're right about all of that.

notperfect- thanks so much for sharing this. It doesn't sound like a pattern with my wife but I think their reasoning sounds similar. :( I'm glad things worked out for you, but that must have been hell.

Thanks a lot everyone!

They fired the OM.

They fired the OM.

Early Christmas present. Nice!!!!

How'd you find out?

My wife checked her work email and forwarded it to me. She said she wasn't gonna check but I'm glad she did!

How did your wife take it?

She told me via text. Very matter of fact and "i dont think he'll do anything, but be careful". Lovely, haha.