SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

wk55hn- Yeah, she is done with him. I've been trying to convey that here. She is really upset by all this and has NO feelings for him at this point. I think she sees him for what he is: a creepy, cheating, womanizer.

It started out at mutual drunken flirting that led to sex. After that it sounds like it slowly turned into him continually pursuing her and her not saying no, but not really into it (she told me she loved the "high" the whole thing gave her so she kept it going). This continued until her not feeling it and the guilt made her tell me about it.

Past history is she has always been a bit flirty. I always played it off as harmless teasing and whatnot and for the most part it was (the kissing at my friends wedding is the only time I know of that it went over the line. She is adamant that she never kissed anyone else or anything).

Bigger- The email was to everyone at the division. OM had been there for 20 years. This is big for them. I am sure that it will come out if people don't already know. He is very friendly with many many people around the office and I'm sure he won't have a problem telling them why he was canned (or at least some of it, if he doesn't want them to know how fucked up and skeevy he is as well). There may or may not have been a meeting to inform people but the email was to everyone.

Since OM other sexual harassment complaint, his only direct reports were my wife and another coworker. So just two of them reporting to the head guy for now. The head guy is new, so I'm sure he will be making structural changes anyways after he gets his feet wet. She won't report to him long.

I agree that it's fine/good that others know. I agree it will just add more people who know and disapprove. Right now the only people who aren't being supportive of her that know are my friends and my brother-in-law. She is well aware that the whole office may find out about this if OM decides to make it known. She knew this before she went to HR. Like I said previously, this wasn't easy for her either.

Thanks for the comment about her progress. I am still thinking I am not seeing much from her at this point, but this wasn't easy for her to do, I know that.

saltandlight- I am actually feeling MUCH better today. Much less hurt. The ball is in her court to better herself. If she doesn't want to, then I have my answer on how to proceed. I didn't make her cheat and I can't do anything to stop it in the future.

Changemaker- If I say nothing, I really doubt she is going to do anything. I don't think she would have told HR if I hadn't pushed her. She knows she's fucked up but hasn't really done much except going to IC for a bit to figure out what is broken and how to fix it. I agree with you about her researching and whatnot, but as I have been reading, it sounds like I may have to force the issue with divorce papers for her to finally get it.

We'll see. It sounds like her trip is bitter sweet and she is feeling guilty for leaving me here and going (I don't agree with that feeling but it sounds like she has been crying a lot). Maybe the trip has opened her eyes a bit as well.

All good things! Progress!

[This message edited by desertmirage at 11:34 AM, November 23rd (Wednesday)]

Listen to Bigger. Your WW job status is not certain yet, but the prospects of her keeping her position.......do not look good. Be prepared for her to either be terminated, forced to resign or demoted. Just a consequence if her actions.

Toby- I didn't read Bigger's message to mean any of what you just said, haha. I don't think there is going to be any consequence for her tbh. We'll see when she gets back, but she essentially reported sexual harassment from her manager, they fired her manager. If they fire or demote her, that could be looked at as retaliatory, which equals lawsuit.

[This message edited by desertmirage at 11:44 AM, November 23rd (Wednesday)]

If I say nothing, I really doubt she is going to do anything.

That's my point. You're okay with that?

At work, I tell my boss, "Boss, I've done this, that and the other thing, give me a raise."

My boss never tells me, "Changemaker, do this, that and the other thing, and I'll give you a raise."

If she has to tell me exactly what to do, she is already doing some of my work, and I'm only doing it because she told me to and incentivized it. I didn't actually WANT to do this, that and the other, I really only WANT the money.

See what I mean?

The WS should come to the BS and say, "I know I've hurt you, it's all my fault, but I am doing this, that, and the other thing to make myself better and convince you that I am worth a shot a Reconciliation".

Idk, I understand what you are saying, but not everyone is like you, either (you sound like a great employee! Self starter!).

To me this isn't so much about getting a raise, as it is keeping your job. My WW is basically an underperformer, and I am putting her on a plan that if she doesn't follow, will get her terminated. I don't think R is a reward for her, and everyone is different. I'll see what she does when she returns but I don't see how giving her a list of shit do to, is necessarily bad, AS LONG as she actually does it, and means it. If she half asses the list that is the same as just not doing it in my eyes.

Duplicate post.

[This message edited by ChangeMaker at 12:14 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday)]

but not everyone is like you

Well, that's true, and no bad thing either!

I just wanted to present my thoughts for your consideration. As usual with this place, you take what you need and you leave the rest. But at least you get solid, honest input from people who want to see you get out of this storm.

P.S. I didn't mean to sound too harsh, I think you are doing quite well so far.

I tend to agree with you. It is unlikely that she will be fired or officially demoted. However do not be surprised if she is now looked on as a high risk employee. The OM in your situation had a history that worked against him... well now your wife has a history of sleeping with coworkers. Obviously a consequence of her own bad decisions but I strongly suspect that any credibility she has built up during her time with that company is gone.

It started out at mutual drunken flirting that led to sex. After that it sounds like it slowly turned into him continually pursuing her and her not saying no, but not really into it (she told me she loved the "high" the whole thing gave her so she kept it going).

The key is that your wife never said no, and this lasted for how long and how many times did they have some kind of sex.

Your wife continually said yes, including going into his office, crying and allowing him to hug and console her.

This along with her actions at the wedding, etc pretty much shows she has no boundaries and she either doesn't care or know.

If they fire or demote her, that could be looked at as retaliatory, which equals lawsuit.

I doubt that actually, since the company can easily fire your wife for violating the company policy book that she probably signed when she started.

So the company has a right to fire your wife IMO.

Yeah I completely agree with you. If other stuff comes up against her she could be in jeaprody and I'm sure they look at her poorly now.

Toby- I didn't read Bigger's message to mean any of what you just said, haha. I don't think there is going to be any consequence for her tbh. We'll see when she gets back, but she essentially reported sexual harassment from her manager, they fired her manager. If they fire or demote her, that could be looked at as retaliatory, which equals lawsuit.

I'm just saying, once word in the office gets out about the affair(and it will, if it hasn't already happen as Bigger pointed out) your WW might not be able to handle the pressure. Thus, the "forced to resigned" option. Think about like this, if you ran a billion dollar company, would consider your WW and OM an assets to the company.........or liabilities?

Have you talked to your wife recently?

When does she get back?

You have mentioned numerous times about her flirtatious attitude all of these years, maybe it is time to ask your wife how many other guys, or take a polygraph.

As I have said all along, your wife seems to act very aloof about all of this, blaming the OM and never herself...all the while having a great time with her friend 10,000 miles away.

Toby- She would definitely be viewed by HR as a liability. She broke company policy (however vaguely worded it was). It will be up to her if she can stomach everyone knowing. I just don't see the company firing her or punishing her in any way. I do agree that it won't be super pleasant to work there for a bit with everyone knowing. OM was popular and when it comes out that she got him fired, people won't be thrilled at first. I'm sure that stuff dissipates as well though.

Craig- I messaged her back and forth this morning. She gets back Monday. She would be the first one to tell you that it was mutual. She knows she fucked up just as much (if not more) than he did. She is married, he is not. What she did was worse, from a relationship standpoint. The only thing he has more responsibility for is him harassing her after she told him to leave her alone. I disagree that she only "blaming OM and never herself". She isn't playing the victim card except for the harassment.

Desert, jobs will come and go. In my opinion, she is un-promotable and if she worked for me I'd give her average-to-poor reviews and let her figure out to leave on her own.

She shouldn't shit where she eats.

She shouldn't get drunk with her coworkers, especially with her superiors, and then fuck them, especially her superiors, especially if she is married or he is married. The only time that works out is if they are single, keep it quiet, and then get married - or it ends quitly with no one knowing - that shows they can handle themselves.

Getting drunk and fucking coworkers don't present her as being "professional." If you are a hot-shot hedge manager, a rainmaker, the muckety-mucks might ignore her shenanigans, otherwise, who needs the headache?

The only reason I wouldn't let her go is because she is the supposed "victim" of sexual harassment and I wouldn't risk the lawsuit, I wouldn't risk a jury and I know the insurance company would say to settle out of court. So I'd put up with her for a year or two and let her walk on her own.

Who knows what her company will do. It doesn't really affect your marriage. Her flirtiness does. It is disrespectful for a married man to flirt with other men. What is the message being sent about her husband and her marriage? Do you think she would flirt with another man if she was with your parents? If you were with her parents having dinner in a restaurant and your wife was not present, running late, in the ladies room, etc., would you flirt with the waitress or hostess with your wife's parents sitting there? Why not? Because it's damn disrespectful and it demeans your wife.

When she flirts with other men, she is demeaning you. She has to grow up, this is not the frat house or the sorority, those days are over.

Drunken wedding kiss, drunken boss fuck, maybe drunken is not something she can do and stay married. Two years married. No real stress. No kids, no serious illnesses, no financial problems. Not good.

When I was young I dated many women who liked to flirt. As time went on, I realized how disrespectful that looked. Friends of mine would mention what they saw. I watched how it looked when my friends' girlfriends would do it. After a while, it became a dealbreaker to me.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 2:36 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday)]

All great points! I would agree too that they will be reluctant to promote her at this point. Why deal with potential problems down the road. You would think this would follow her wherever she went within her company? Like, if she takes a different position at a completely different division somewhere completely new, this is prob in her file?

No, unless she's licensed in some way there won't be any reporting of this issue by the company for purposes of reference. More likely inter company/industry gossip depending on the size of her industry.

She should use any reprieve she gets to start looking for a job anyway. Fresh start.

[This message edited by Markone at 2:48 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday)]

Sorry, just noticed you said within the company. Yes it will be in her file regardless of division

Thanks. That's what I assumed but wasn't sure if it was HR only or just in her general file. Yeah, it would make it very hard for her to get promoted.

The file will be written as sexual harassment. The facts will be there. It will never, ever, ever, EVER, NEVER, going to say "give her a bad raise, don't give her a raise, don't give her a bonus, don't promote her." That will be word-of-mouth.

The decision maker, whoever that is (not HR, likely the most senior exec in that location, maybe CEO or EVP in HQ), will have already discussed the situation to come to the decision. The decision maker, without writing anything down, will have let everyone know what he/she thinks about OM and about your wife, and everyone else there, will follow the decision maker's lead. They will want to please the decision maker. This is not a democracy, this is a dictatorship, a monarchy, a military-type structure, with following orders and currying for favors and not wanting to get the King or Queen mad at them. Many will have integrity and will fight a battle against injustice, but I doubt your wife's situation will engender that type of feeling. They will think she is lucky she didn't get fired immediately. On the bright side, except for extreme cause, she is un-firable for a couple years.

That's my take. A lot of companies botch this stuff regularly, so who knows?

The purpose of a corporation is to make money.

The edict to let her go, not promotable, etc., may or may not follow her to other divisions. It depends on how big the company, how many product/business lines, etc. If there is an HQ where CEO and division heads all are in HQ, almost definitely it will follow her wherever.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 3:25 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday)]

Gotcha. They are HUGE. She could prob go somewhere else if she needed to. She is very good at her job so if she doesn't give them any reason to fire her in the future, I don't see why they would. I do think that they would have a serious discussion if she was to ever be promoted to a position in which she would have direct reports. She demonstrated TERRIBLE judgement and an attitude that put her ahead of the company (although she did end up reporting it). What a mess she got herself into... SMH