SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

After 4-5 years if she does well it will fade away and they will forget. For the foreseeable future they will silently notice how she acts with men.

I know this comment is a while back:

Yeah, I just can't stop thinking about the fact that we are only 30 and she was already "bored" or whatever. What's gonna happen 5 years from now, 10, 20? We've been together for 10 years already. There is potential to be together for 60+ years. That's a long time and if one is easily bored or whatever, doesn't bode well...

But jeez DM, I can relate. Both only 32, married less than 4 years and she already cheated? Like, what the hell?

I'm not saying it would be better by any means, but I could almost understand if it was 20 years in, empty nest, totally tired of each other...but getting "bored" so soon, how are we supposed to be surprised if it happens again?

She is very good at her job so if she doesn't give them any reason to fire her in the future, I don't see why they would.

No she is not very good at her job actually if she needed to go into this OMs office and cry and have him hold her because she did not get what she wanted or needed for her job.

Those that are good at their jobs do not do this and have a much thicker skin.

ETA: Your wife needs to understand about the corporate world, boundaries, etc. She has a lot to learn.

[This message edited by craig2001 at 4:29 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday)]

Wk55hn- yeah. Makes sense! We shall see I guess. She has time to see how things change at the office and if she needs a different job.

Mouthkeptshut- yeah buddy! Just kinda scary right? Idk. We definitely had communication problems in that she didnt communicate or whatever and we didnt do ANYTHING to keep our relationship fresh. Im not sure what your situation is, but for me these seem like easy fixes. The harder fix is what to do with her. Its like the threads i am reading on here about revenge affairs and whatnot. When you're having issues, why make it worse by tossing more issues in the fire??

We definitely had communication problems in that she didnt communicate or whatever and we didnt do ANYTHING to keep our relationship fresh.

Fresh, how long have you been together, and only 30 years old.

Fresh, good grief. Someone there needs to figure it all out. Marriage is a long road, not fresh all of the time.

We've been together 10 years.

EDIT: We need to make time for us. Fresh may have been the wrong word. Time for us.

[This message edited by desertmirage at 5:56 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday)]

Glad to know POS OM got fired but your main problem as I see it going forward is your WW knows you are "scared of divorce" (your words). Women are very intuitive in that sense. She may sing your praises right now as to how forgiving and compassionate you are but that is temporary...Unless you prove otherwise, she will NOT respect you and always consider you inferior to more confident guys and always be attracted to those types even if they are much older. Besides, your risk averse nature will automatically lead you to set the bar quite low...she's thinking: what's he gonna do, leave? Nah, doesn't have the balls to do that...he ain't going nowhere ...She may not articulate it such but you know your WW likes the powerful confident types not the risk averse types..so be one and let HER chase you. Right now to be frank you're still chasing her and that is NOT an attractive trait. You're still the "nice guy" thinking about "us time" and "communication" instead of "give me one fucking reason why I shouldn't dump your ass" confidence ....As you yourself indicated what happens a few years down the line with a couple of screaming kids thrown in? Another brash dude walks in, charms your wife, what's to say she would not repeat her behavior? After all there have been zero consequences for her so far

Are you sure she wants to stay married? I know she says she does but her actions show otherwise. When she admitted the affair she had already lined up a place to live, you having to push her to go to HR, and you said it yourself if you don't push her to do the things you need in order to R, she wont do anything. Actions speak louder than words

you dont need to decide anything. standard advice is to wait 3-5 months to decide if her a was the bridge too far or is reconcilable. thats a future decision.

for now its to get out of infidelity. you are doing well.

do you have transparency on all devices, accounts, etc?steps such as changing email or phone # so om cant contact her?

a full and complete timeline?

who knew of her a (but failed to stop or report it) and removing them from your lives. exit toxic friends too.

her in ic to explore her whys. steps to mold herself into being a safe partner? she has character defects that allowed her to choose an unhealthy a as an acceptible choice, thats poor boundaries, poor decision making, poor honesty and credibility processes, and poor ethics - all rolled into 1.

remorse or regret?

use those as benchmarks to make an informed decision to offer r or not.

I think Desert has a salvageable marriage IF HE WANT TO. This is not the same as saying he should save his marriage or needs to do it. It’s simply a statement that since his words and actions indicate he WANTS to save this marriage then the advice I offer is geared to that end. From what he shares then I think his WW is doing a lot of the correct things thereby creating the scenario where R is possible.

Expecting constant logical and reasoned actions and thoughts from someone that’s done something as illogical and unreasoned as having an affair is strange IMHO. For now, Desert might have to do the pulling and leading, but eventually – if they make it – they get out of infidelity together.

In all negotiations (and right now what’s going on in your marriage IS negotiations) it’s better to be in a position of power. Like if you want to buy a car it’s better if you have several models and makes in mind rather than focusing on one specific car. Once the person you are negotiating with senses he has something unique the power moves to him.

At the same time – any capable negotiator will tell you that a key to success is recognizing when you are in a weaker position and be ready to walk away if you aren’t getting an agreeable deal. A capable negotiator will also tell you that a good deal isn’t one where one party walks away with all the satisfaction but rather when both are comparably content with the deal.

This applies to your marriage right now. If your wife isn’t clear that you BOTH have options… well… It’s not negotiations but dictation of terms. On both sides. IMHO the ONLY term that’s non-negotiable is that the affair needs to be over.

The key here is that you BOTH have options. She’s free to get drunk and flirt, cry in other men’s arms, feel miserable… whatever. The only stipulation is that this freedom costs her YOU.

Same with you. You can demand she doesn’t get drunk and flirt, cry in other men’s’ arms, feel miserable… whatever. The only stipulation is that if she does then she’s not your wife.

The tough thing about negotiations regarding marriage is that the goal isn’t that you sit on separate sides of the table, but together side-by-side seeking the SAME goals. To reach that stage you need to have a clear joint view of where you head and want to get. IMHO that’s what the “negotiations” should be about right now. That’s where MC should be guiding you.

Making constant demands enforced with an ultimate threat won’t cut it:

“You change jobs or I will divorce you”, “You come home directly from work or I will divorce you” and so on won’t help your marriage. You want to be a husband and not a warden. At the same time certain needs have to be met. She has to make concessions to what most would consider “normal” behavior because something abnormal happened. “Normal” doesn’t cut it for you right now.

Desert – Your wife needs to be very well informed of the pain caused. You need to be unafraid of making it very clear to her that you are torn between the belief that this is reconcilable or not. You need her to be very clear of the pain caused, the hit to your masculinity, the blow to your self-worth, all these things we betrayed men feel. She needs to understand that MAYBE your biggest fear right now is experiencing a new d-day – going back to square one. She needs to fear that you think that MAYBE you would be better off taking the emotional blow of divorce NOW rather than gaining some hope that is then taken from you.

Once that fear is there, once you BOTH accept the reality of MAYBE this not working… That’s when you can both finally start working with reality and focus at negotiating what you two BOTH really want from each other and as a couple with the aim of sitting at the same side of the table.

We need to make time for us. Fresh may have been the wrong word. Time for us.

Easier said than done nowadays. Both partners working just to make ends meet, save money, etc.

One of the best ways is to have a common hobby or something like that. Gardening is something we have always done together for one example. Something both of you have an interest in, there is golf, sports, working out, cooking, lots of things.

But her being bored is a very poor excuse on her part to do what she did do. Plus the one thing I think you are going to have trouble getting over, was her ability to act normal while lying and deception.

Hi desertmirage,

I've been following your story. Sorry you're going through this.

I agree with another poster to not hold your ww's hand and tell her all she needs to do. Tell her some but sit back afterwards and let her show you how much the marriage means to her. She hasn't been showing it like she should.

If you try to help her or do all the work for her you won't know how much you really mean to her.

You are the prize she needs to win back. You seem like a really nice guy. There are women out there that appreciate nice guys and will treat them right.

I never understood why some girls/women were into the "bad boys". I never was even as a teen.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone here.

DM,

You have a PM.

Hey all! Thanks for the posts. I think I am going to ask her to make a list of the things she is planning on doing to better herself and figure out her brokeness. Seems like this lets her show me what she thinks she needs to do and I can see if what she thinks is enough and whatnot.

I won't have to tell her what to do, aside from telling her I expect her to be doing something. Hopefully we can see what she thinks a little clearer.

She says she wants to remain married but I really don't know. It sounded like she was feeling like she was done while in A. She tells me she is VERY clear that she wants to be with me now, so maybe it was just fog at the time? I have asked her this question multiple times.

Any thoughts on the plan of making it clear I want her to start doing stuff, let her drive the bus in her own recovery/discovery and then be able to hold her accountable since there will be a list that she has put together? Thanks!

She says she wants to remain married but I really don't know. It sounded like she was feeling like she was done while in A.

Her words still do not make sense. During the affair, she though she was done...done with the marriage, why would she feel that way, not to mention, she certainly couldn't feel she had a future with this guy.

Yes, have her write out everything, because if you tell her now, she will just repeat your words. You need to know what the hell she is thinking.

You have been guessing at her thoughts and meanings and actions for far too long now.

Any thoughts on the plan of making it clear I want her to start doing stuff, let her drive the bus in her own recovery/discovery and then be able to hold her accountable since there will be a list that she has put together?

Yeah, tell her, "Mrs. Desert, I want you to start doing stuff, drive your own bus in your own recovery of this affair and discovery of why, and I want you to hold yourself accountable, and I want you to put together a list of what and how you plan to do that."

From my experience, very few cheaters can figure this out and need direction. I suggest scrapping your plan and telling her what you want in general terms and a few specifics:

1. No more flirting and disrespecting me in so doing.

2. No male friends except the ones that I approve. Maybe you can have male friends when you have proven to me that you don't make out with or fuck them, or even flirt with them. This is like a 2-5 year process of rebuilding trust, let her know that.

3. No more drinking when I am not with you. You have proven you can't control yourself, two MAJOR incidents, making out (likely a minimization, I haven't just kissed without groping since I was in high school) is a major incident and obviously having sex with your boss and then lying about it is terrible, so yeah, both precipitated apparently that you drank too much - you can't play the "drunk card" like that mitigated your actions, and then expect to still keep drinking.

4. Honesty from now on. I expect you to fail because you are used to flirting and crossing appropriate boundaries, and it will be difficult for you to stop those behaviors cold turkey. It will be easier for you to change when you do it with me. So I expect to hear from you as to how you are doing on the flirting other men front.

5. Understand that I don't trust you and act accordingly. That means transparency in your messaging, apps, devices, social media, etc., and letting me know where you are without me having to act like I have to be your father or your prison warden. I will do the same for you.

6. All of the long list of crap you gave me that you want to fix in the marriage, focused on me, I will do those things that are within my power and are reasonable. You let me know what the most important of those things are. Top of that list means spending time with romance regularly, even if it means scheduling, as un-spontaneous and un-romantic that may sound.

And say it nicer than I just posted it.

Haha, I will. I like this a lot. The kissing was just kissing. As soon as it started I knocked the dude on his ass. If I hadn't been there, who knows where it would have led though. Could have had my d day 2 years ago, is my thought. Would have been better in a sense. We wouldn't have been married.

The kissing was just kissing. As soon as it started I knocked the dude on his ass.

That kissing was just kissing gave you a big indication of the future. Than a real physical affair and what is next, who knows.

Unless she fixes herself there will be more PAs.

Just kissing and she thought nothing wrong with it.

That is how it started me with. I caught her kissing some guy, I also knocked his ass over a pool table. And my wife told me not to get mad, it was only a friendly kiss.

What an idiot I was way back then.

My wife seemed extremely upset with herself after the kiss. It's why I let it slide. I'm sure she didn't want me dumping her to the curb when we were engaged and had to tell all her family why. I should have known better though. I just saw her in a different light. I love her, but wtf!!