SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

On the positive side. She did share the email with you. She did throw him under the bus. It does look like she has made a choice and is working in your direction.

Now it just come down to what you can live with and what you can get past. I do wish you well and hope things work out the way you want them to. Hang in there.

DM - the tone of that letter is not one of someone who was fired for sexual harassment because of your wife. From the start of your thread up till now your wife's story and attitude have just not added up. It is like a very badly written script with HUGE plot holes and leaps of logic. I believe others have pointed this out again and again.

Parts of the story seem somewhat plausible but alot (most) of it just does not make very much sense. It seems like the story an immature teenager would tell to avoid getting in trouble for something they knew they were going to get caught at.

I think it is pretty clear what she is telling you, what she told HR and what she has told him are not the same story. I think you are taking way too much on your wayward word and putting way too much trust in her.

She may very well be out of the affair... she may not. At a minimum she still seems to have a lacidasical attitude about what she did and the reality is that she has had very few real consequences to her actions.

I agree with Craig on all points. There's more to the story. Be prepared for TT. What indeed did they talk about at their last meeting? DM there were holes in my wife's story too. I wrote it all down and went point to point on everything that didn't make sense. I think you are too quick to believe your wife. Don't be. Everything must be verified ,everything. Also , yes call the OM yourself and tell him to leave her alone or you will take legal action.

[This message edited by 1survivor at 12:38 PM, December 1st (Thursday)]

Yeah, the final bit of this email raises a bunch of questions. I'm going to go into this more tonight with her. It really does seem like there is something missing from the story. It was more than "nothing" at least to him. If anything substantial comes out of this, I think I am done. I'm not going to be continually lied to.

Fool me once and all that.

[This message edited by desertmirage at 1:12 PM, December 1st (Thursday)]

If anything substantial comes out of this, I think I am done. I'm not going to be continually lied to.

Maybe yes, maybe no, that is up to you.

Do not tell your wife that if she admits anything else you are gone, because she will never admit anything.

Tell her you are done being lied to and that a polygraph is probably needed to find out how much sex and especially how many other guys.

So much attention has been focused on the OM and HR, that your wife has kind of escaped answering questions and taking FULL responsibility for what she really did. And I don't think she has told you much of the truth of the past.

Calling the OM yourself, ask him the pointed questions. Maybe it is better if you just let your wife keep letting you know about these emails, because I dont think she realizes she is showing the real story.

You must see this text/email yourself when she gets home. If it has been deleted, that is a huge red flag.

No, I have been thinking more and more. If she has held anything back that I feel is important it's over. I'm not going to try to go through R knowing that she may be holding things back that she doesn't feel are important enough to be mentioned. I ofc will not mention this to her. She will just continue to not tell the truth (assuming that's what she is doing now). Yeah I'm sure we are going to look at it from her account. I don't think she has doctored it at all. I asked her point blank if it was the entire email. I have no idea what his phone number is. He apparently only had his work phone as his cell, which is now gone. I would have to email him myself.

I have no idea what his phone number is. He apparently only had his work phone as his cell, which is now gone. I would have to email him myself.

Since he is fired, you now have his email address.

Though I thought you said this was a text, doesn't that show a phone number?

Give your wife one last chance to come clean, totally clean about this, and any other guys.

TT is so common. But considering she has sort of done this before, she needs to learn the why as to why she does this and did this.

Now that she has put you through hell, I think you are finally hitting the anger and or fed up stage.

Let her know this, you very well could see a change in her. Because there is no more HR to focus on, and no more OM to focus on, especially once you yourself contact him.

Na it was an email. The text I referenced was her text a while back to him telling him that he can only contact her about work. I think I am going to question her before I email him. If she has held big things back (things like them discussing her leaving me or whatnot, since his email makes it sound more than a "fling" and "nothing) there are no more chances in my book. I don't need it and there is no point in contacting OM if I am done.

Let us know how the talk goes tonight. Just don't threaten your wife with anything like this or else, that never works.

BUT, that being said, if she understands that you are totally fed up with the lying and the minimizing, that could work with the entire truth.

Do not draw a line in the sand if you are not ready to carry it out.

Let her know that the lying has certainly been worse than the deed throughout all of this.

The OM doesn't know why he was fired. He's fishing for info. HR would not give him the details. Heck, he only had two direct reports. He should have been made redundant long ago on a purely business basis.

He knows she went to Vietnam for vacation because he was her supervisor and had to approve her time off. I'm surprised that no one has suggested that his reference to her vacation in his email was really a cover...that he was there the entire time.

Should DM consider any part of POSOM's email as truthful. On what basis? Because it would serve to discount his wife? That alone?

He's playing nice. He's fishing for info.

Give him a NC letter from your attorney. Block him from having any contact. Get him out of your life.

I think he does know why he was fired. I think his email says that ("not mad at her") he is confused why she turned him in. I know he wasn't with her in Vietnam (I know you are speaking facetiously :) just clarifying). I ignored the piece about him knowing about her trip because it should be obvious that he would know about any PTO she requested as he was her manager. I am going to question her. This thing just doesn't sound right to me at all (the bits about them being able to get through anything, her not being able to communicate feelings, the last meeting in his office). Unless he is just looking for a means at a wrongful fire, it feels wrong to me. The final meeting in his office, as it was described to me, was him asking her what's wrong, her breaking down and crying, him asking if he could hug her, her saying no a few times and him doing it anyways. It really sounds like there was more, and he didn't send this to me, it was to her. Idk. Sounds not good to me. Maybe I'm overreacting...

[This message edited by desertmirage at 3:54 PM, December 1st (Thursday)]

I don't think your overreacting. I think she has been minimizing. Maybe to protect herself, maybe to protect your feelings, but either way...I don't believe you have the whole truth. That email just screams that there is more than you don't know, and you need to know.

Its time for her to be completely honest and stop with the TT..

I don't think you're necessarily overreacting. The things that would bother me are the exact same things that are bothering you.

(the bits about them being able to get through anything, her not being able to communicate feelings, the last meeting in his office)

Those are reasonable things to be concerned about. That being said, I think you should hear what your wife says before you let your imagination run wild.

I may be wrong, but I get the impression your wife is pretty easy going. She has low boundaries and has a hard time telling people "no." She said don't hug me, don't hug me, and then he hugged her. The AP is obviously an aggressive player. He goes on the assumption. So I think it's entirely possible that he's assuming your wife is OK with his overtures. A lot of salesman are that way. They have to convince people to buy their product. We've all heard about the cliché "pushy salesman." And of course, he was her boss. Not saying that excuses things, but you can see where I'm heading with this.

If that's the case, then your wife really may have her heart in the right place with you. of course, that would mean you have a serious other problem. No one wants a wife with poor boundaries.

I agree, it isn't something I would want to read "I thought we could work through anything. I know you're not good expressing your feelings." It sounds really, really familiar. Of course, she was fucking him. They were lovers. It sort of goes with the territory that he would feel intimate with her. Don't you feel intimate with anyone you're fucking? I sure do/did.

I'm sorry. It's just a shit sandwich anyway you look at it.

Find out what she says. Give her a chance to explain herself. That's my advice.

Good luck.

[This message edited by mike7 at 4:18 PM, December 1st (Thursday)]

It's good that you'll be addressing the suspicious things. I think a carefully timed remark regarding a polygraph might be very effective one way or the other when you'll have the talk with her. Best wishes

he final meeting in his office, as it was described to me, was him asking her what's wrong, her breaking down and crying, him asking if he could hug her, her saying no a few times and him doing it anyways. It really sounds like there was more, and he didn't send this to me, it was to her.

I take it you think there was more to the past than in the office.

I think there was much more in the past, than the ridiculous sex you have mentioned or she told you about.

This guy is a player, but your wife misled him terribly IMO.

Do not give your wife the answers to your questions. In other words, do not tell her what you think.

Ask her to explain once and for all what all of this means and what really happened...and to stop treating you like a 5 year old.

But do not give her the answers you are looking for, because that is what she will answer. Let her answer the questions.

I think Craig is correct in that there is more than she has told you.

I’m not surprised. There is always trickle truth and although I think your wife has made good progress then some things indicate she sometimes needs a lot of prodding to move along.

I do however think that whatever she’s kept hidden will prove relatively insignificant in the whole scheme of things EXCEPT FOR ONE KEY ISSUE: It’s trickle truth. That key issue is a major issue…

I think early on in this thread I mentioned the need for total 100% honesty. I think I mentioned that any truth at THAT point would be OK because later on some minor discoveries would hurt even more. That’s what’s happening.

I think it’s imperative that she fully realizes the importance of truth and that you get the truth.

There are some doubts though… The failures and holes in the post are so clear… why did your wife forward it to you? Why not tell you about it or delete it? She’s basically shooting herself in the foot and you need to evaluate if its deliberate or a mistake.

I do strongly disagree with Craig on YOU sending OM a message.

He didn’t respect your marriage so why should he respect you? He will bypass any message you send. Furthermore, he will then know how to hurt you and will probably send you goading messages. I am all for confronting one’s problems but here the OM isn’t the real issue. There has been way too much focus on him for now.

I would recommend one of either reactions:

No reaction at all and ignore him completely.

Classic no-contact e-mail. Very unemotional and direct:

“OM – I am fully committed to my marriage. I will never again contact you in any way or form and demand you refrain from any contact in any way or form. Any breach of that request will be shared with my husband and can lead to legal action”

Desert

Just a thought…

Any chance your WW knows about SI?

There are certain… timings that seem convenient in what we suggest you need and in what she provides…

Just in case:

Hey Mrs. Desert – This site can be your worst foe or best friend. If you are reading then create an account and post your story in the Wayward forum. Send one of our fantastic former waywards a PM and get help. We know this is hard and despite the tough words here on the JFO forum we do care.

Hey guys, I questioned her this evening and it does sound like things are on the up and up. Beyond the text that I know she sent him saying to keep it all professional she said she verbally told him no a few times as well and that this was not okay. The office chat he referenced was not a good conversation from her perspective in that it ended with him forcing hugs on her (i asked her why she didnt leave his office and in hindsight she wished she had. At the time she was crying and didnt want to walk past all her woworkers in tears so was trying to compose herself). I asked her about the emotional thing and she claimed she didnt know what he was talking about beyond that she wasnt clearly sharing her feelings with him.

I asked about the piece about "thought we could get through anything" and she said she didnt know what he was talking about. I think all these are sincere btw. I told her if there is any piece not spoken yet that is potentially important bring it up now and that if she didnt and it came up later that could make me just leave. Shr said she has told me everything and if I want to know anything specifically or hear things again just ask.

Her first take on his email was that it was bait as well. He HAS to know she turned him in, so the shit about him not being mad doesn't make sense. I told her we should have the lawyer contact him in response. That will end this completely. He's unemployed and prob doesnt want to risk a lawsuit.

quick comment...

This is 100% proof in my OPINION, your wayward wife is lying and hiding details through trickle truth. Probably feels she is sparing you pain, but protecting herself from herself. Since in reality the details are hurtful but pointless but show an inability to be vulnerable and honest.

This phrase happened to me a lot during TT, but ceased really after polygraph. To me it is a huge red flag.

she claimed she didnt know what he was talking about

P.S. She knows, even my WW is screaming at this as a huge red flag.

[This message edited by sneaker at 12:40 AM, December 2nd (Friday)]