SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

D&L,

Detaching when you need to in order to think clearly and not react in anger is exactly the right thing to do.

Look, the last bunch of posts have been pretty direct. These are folks who were lifesavers for me and countless others. And what they are doing is splashing a bucket of ice cold water over your head. Their clarity of thinking is a gift. Understand that, even though it's tough to hear. Not saying they are 100% correct in all situations, but don't ignore what they're saying just because the message may not be one you want to hear.

There's always more. That's the truth of it. My wife was remorseful pretty much from the get go and yet she broke No Contact and hid certain things. And I defended her on this site and was wrong as well. Check my profile - the links to my long-assed threads are there. But these folks were dead on.

What wk55hn posted is so true. It's the lies that doom the marriage more than the infidelity itself. Because the trust has been shattered and when it's all on the line, and your marriage is hanging by a thread; when you have been crushed by the one person who is supposed to have your back and you are looking for her to throw you a rope to save you from the abyss; she chooses herself over you. And that's a killer when it happens. And you ask, who is this person? Because you don't recognize her anymore.

Ask details. You already think you know the worst. Ask other types. Where, how often, clothes worn, who paid? how much, whatever comes to your mind. The key is that the details matter and the details will expose if there are things that she's still not telling you. Something will seem off.

I'll tell you what I did. I took a host of question that were asked by people posting on my thread and copied them down. I added my own. I then spent an absolutely horrendous weekend asking over 100 questions to my wife with the preamble that the only hope we had was pure honesty. That she wasn't protecting me by lying to me. And that I already imagined it was the worst so nothing she could tell me would make it worse (not true, by the way, it is definitely worse to hear your wife admit certain things, but I knew that would help her tell me the truth). And then I backed it up by having her take a polygraph, which she readily agreed to. And one key question was regarding her truthfulness over that weekend and whether she omitted anything. And she passed. And that went a long way towards letting me know that she might be a good candidate to reconcile with.

Anyway, an SI rule is take what you need and ignore the rest. I'm just letting you know that you have folks posting here who know from whence they speak. Don't ignore them. They only have your best interests in mind, which is a pretty awesome thing if you think about it.

Hang in there.

[This message edited by Walloped at 8:32 PM, January 5th (Thursday)]

Lying continues when it works. step back and think.

would you believe this if someone told you this story. See an attorney, tell her one last chance for the truth.

You need to stand jo for yourself and hour marriage.

Hey bro. Sending strength. This is hell on earth but you can survive it. You will even be a better man as a result. Until then remember this

You had zero to do with her cheating. There are plenty of healthy ways to deal with marital dissatisfaction, fucking other guys is not one

You are in complete control. You are the faithful spouse. You can't control other people only how you react to them.

Don't accept anything that your gut disagrees with. Anytime you are faced with a decision stop and listen to your gut. It will guide you.

You'll survive this. With or without her. You'll survive this.

.

[This message edited by DazedandLost at 4:03 AM, March 21st (Tuesday)]

DaL,

Check you private messages brother.

O'Dude

.

[This message edited by DazedandLost at 4:04 AM, March 21st (Tuesday)]

Hi DaL. Been catching up on your thread. Sounds like some progress has been made.

One thing that has been in the back of my mind for a while is something that sassylee touched upon a page or 2 back. I debated sending what I'm about to say in a private message so as not to give your WW any ideas but I see there are a bunch of "what could she possible get out of just a BJ" type responses.

Experience tells us there has to be more. Time and time again we've seen it come out that just a kiss turned into just a BJ. Just a BJ turns into just intercourse. Just intercourse turns into there were no feelings exchanged, it was just sex. And on and on. Time and time again we see it here on SI. For the record, I'm also in this camp. I suspect there is more still to come. Experience dictates that.

However, at the same time I'm also in another camp. One thing that did stand out to me from your early posts is that your WW has childhood trauma. I have plenty of childhood trauma including CSA (child sex abuse). IF your WW has suffered from CSA, that would explain some of her behavior and what she is getting out of it. Does it excuse or justify her bahavior? HELL NO!!! It does not at all. Adults are responsible for their actions and we all know the difference from right and wrong and what is going to hurt someone. Thus all the secrecy. I can't stress that enough. Any sort of CSA does not excuse her actions.

But what does she get out of it? If for example she was forced to give a BJ, or several for that matter in her childhood, that causes a terrible amount of trauma to one's psyche. When that happens, often times someone's behavior changes in an effort to "normalize" what happened to them. By doing it over and over it becomes more "normal". It becomes something of an effort to feel that they have control over the act so that the act was not so forced upon them. For example a rape victim may become very promiscuous at some point after the fact in an effort to psychologically gain control over what was done to them.

I'm not saying that acting out is what happens to everyone. It doesn't. Everyone reacts differently and has different circumstances in their lives regarding traumas. Hell, just the PTSD alone regardless of the sex stuff makes people act out and think things they normally wouldn't do. There is PTSD all over this site for both BS and WS. I have been diagnosed with complex PTSD and was acting out in fits of rage when I came to SI. However, PTSD or CSA does not excuse my actions of screaming at my kids in a way over the top manner. I've taken responsibility for that and have worked on myself hard every week for the past 3 years and have made a lot of progress.

Speaking from experience, IF your WW suffers from CSA or sexual abuse, there is nothing you can do to "save" her. Only she can do that herself. What you can do is listen. Most importantly, you still get to let your pain of what she did to you show. Whatever she may suffer from, her being a victim does not give her a free pass. It does not make her pain more important than your pain. Just means there is a shite tonne of pain for both of you to work through and process.

One more note on sexual assault or CSA. Unfortunately every one of my long term partners was sexually assaulted in some manner. I've discussed this with some members here (both BS and WS) as well as in IC. I got a look into something very rare and didn't know what I was seeing at the time. I say very rare because most CSA is not acted out with their long term partners. I lived with one of my girlfriends for 3 years. I always suspected that she had sexual issues that stemmed from her father. There were lots of signs though I didn't necessarily see all of them at the time. What ended up happening is she wanted me to beat here during sex. This is something she asked for. Not in a BDSM sort of way. Not in a kinky or fun type of way. She wanted me to assault her during sex. This is something she asked for and was discussed. I won't get into the details but was very traumatic for both of us. After speaking with other survivors here as well as in IC, what she was doing was showing me with actions what happened to her. She couldn't talk about it so she was trying to show me. Further, and this is why I say this is rare, typically that does not happen with someone who is their safe partner. Typically actions of this nature, reliving the trauma or whatever you want to call it, get acted out with someone who is not safe for them. That way they will not be rejected by their safe person. That way they can keep their safe person, their safe place, just that. Safe. Well away from what happened to them. It's really fucked up.

Your WW most certainly has some uber compartmentalization skills that allowed her to do what she did. If it's really extreme and if she works on herself, she may find that she could potentially have a dissociative disorder. I have a mild one as well. Dissociative disorders are like compartmentalization on steroids. I'm not suggesting your WW has these things but if she has past traumas it's a strong possibility.

I'm putting this out there for everyone. Because IF she had some serious shit happen to her, THAT is what she is getting out of the acts. This in no way excuses her actions. There are many survivors of sexual abuse, assault, and CSA who don't cheat and hurt their safe people or loved ones. I have never cheated. But I would be lying if I didn't say what I went through didn't effect my behavior.

Which leads me to... Get yourself into IC DaL. You are going to need it. Trust me. Look I was "typical guy" and fought going to IC for years. Took SI as my stepping stone to get into IC. I had every excuse in the world not to go. 3 years later I'm a advocate for it. An advocate for the right IC anyway. I fired my first one as they weren't doing anything for me. But I have been with my second IC for 2.5 years and they have done a lot for me. I look at it like this. My IC is my teacher. I have learned so much about PTSD (her specialty), personality disorders, CSA, and the list goes on. Of course you need to focus on yourself in IC but I guarantee you will learn things about WW in IC as well.

I could be off on all of that but wanted to put it out there. I'm not projecting so much as explaining what she could have potentially be getting out of her situation. I only know what you write here. You know your WW. She could be full of shit in which case were still in the camp of there is more. Maybe not. Time will tell. So turn down the volume on what your WW says. It's not so much what she says from here on out. It's a question of what her actions show you. Watch her actions. Trust your gut.

yop

Amazing post, yearsofpain. It's spot on. DaL, what caused your WW to do this was not you getting fat and ignoring her. It's likely something inside of her.

Thank you years of pain. I'm going to re-read your post carefully. I think you might be on the right lines.

and I've said this before - I knew about the childhood trauma already. My WW got very upset the other nigh and thought she was telling me about it for the first time. She was shocked when i told her she had already told me. She told me before we got married, over 10 years ago. As you say, she's very good at boxing things away.

How do I PM someone? I've replied to PM's but cant see how to start one!

Edit - NVM I'd spotted why.

Yearsofpain, can you PM me?

[This message edited by DazedandLost at 8:25 AM, January 6th (Friday)]

What YoP said!! 100%. Especially getting yourself into IC. At the very least it will give you some insight into your own behaviours and at best it will give you some insight into your WSs actions. There is an element of co-dependence in your relationship which initially triggered your "it's my fault" response to your WSs actions. That will take some time and professional support to untangle. IC isn't a magic bullet that makes everything better, but it does allow you the time and space to process what's going on for you. This is critical. You can't change her, you can only change you.

I cant do IC just now

can't or won't ?

I agree with YOP 1000%. I was never big on IC or anything of the sort. I can tell you that my IC has given more so much through this mess.

We can't make you. All we can say is that it helped a lot of us. It likely would help you too.

Trauma in any form usually requires some form of medical attention. Mental and emotional trauma is no different.

She wasn't looking for love on a cheater site. She wanted to feel sexy, wanted, lusty and bad. The illicitness was the draw. Her not feeling loved likely wasn't part of it.

(That's not to say that had she been happier in her marriage things might--might--have played out differently. But I think the two issues are a bit more separated than you currently believe. UNLESS she was trying to work up the courage to leave you, and was steppaddering herself to an exit affair. But that is not consistent with what she is saying).

I have no idea why, but one sees the "being bad with a stranger but not my husband" with a lot of late thirties to forties wayward wives on this site. (I do see a correlation between women who were molested or raped and such fact patterns. ) They want to be a slutty whore and feel young one last time before they get old, but don't want their husbands to think of them that way. So they cheat instead of communicating their sexual needs to their husband.

D&L

Couple of thoughts here, first you can go ahead and start a new thread since this one's title rubs you wrong.

Glad you see how wrong that was.

Next - You have sustained and emotional and physical trauma, very much like being raped. If you had been raped, by a stranger or worse a close relative, and couldn't comfortably get support from loved ones what would You do? Or better yet, if it happened to one of you children, what would you do?

Do the same then for yourself. If you are unable to sleep and eat talk to your Dr. No one is saying to take meds to become a zombie, but to at least get some help to allow your brain to function normally. Emotional trauma alters our body and brain chemistry, and sometimes we need to supplement that body to get it back to normal.

There is no shame or anything more wrong w/ that than taking medicine to treat any other condition like High Blood Pressure.

Look, I'm being a bit silly. I know what I'm doing is wrong, I'm not in denial.

In all this I have no control. Yes I have passwords and GPS, I have promises and I have TT's and confirmations, bu at the end of the day, there's not much I have control over.

I've found something I have control over. I have the power to hurt myself and I'm using it.

I havent eaten since Tuesday.

I know I know I know. Silly. Stupid. Wrong. Dangerous. unhealthy. whatever.

I'm enjoying it.

I'll stop it when I'm ready. I'm not doing IC just now.

I definitely think that you need to get into IC.

First, there is the trauma of all of this stuff being revealed. It's awful and it's awfully difficult to deal with. I've heard of people finding a therapist who specializes in trauma patients. I recommend that too, if possible.

Second, based on what you originally wrote, my guess is that you have deeper problems than simply the affair. Meaning, you might have been suffering from depression all along. That is the case with me. I was struggling prior to D-day and then things only got worse from there.

You need to take care of yourself. As a minimum, go see a physician and get checked out, both physically (get tested for STDs) and mentally (there are simple surveys to help determine your mental state).

D&L,

I think I read your post three times over. Please know that I fully understand the emotions and the thought processes. I just wanted to point out something that struck me while reading your recent post.

As YOP so perfectly stated, childhood trauma can have a significant impact on feelings, mindset, and behavior, and it manifests itself in different ways. However, your post screams self-blame. YOU ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR HER CHEATING. You had issues in your marriage. Clearly. So what? Who doesn't? And correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you in the same marriage as her? Did you cheat? Perhaps you did ignore her. Perhaps you weren't the best husband. But in the end, she did what she did and you did not.

Look, I'm not saying this to denigrate her. But avoiding the stark reality will do neither of you any favors. This does not mean she is an evil person. It does not mean you should divorce her. But you both need to own up to her actions. As a BS, trying to understand why my wife did what she did almost killed me. What did I do wrong? What did the OM have that I didn't? What should I have or could have done differently to prevent this? These are all normal feelings and thoughts. We are looking for a scapegoat. Something we can point to and say A-Ha! That's the reason why! Now if we just fix that, all will be well and right with the world. It's just not true. I am sure your wife's childhood trauma impacted her mindset, but her actions were her choices.

Why am I harping on this? Because you are still so very early in this mess. And you should understand that her owning what she has done - taking full responsibility and not looking for excuses (not saying she has, but you shouldn't be providing them for her either) is so integral to both of you healing. She needs to understand herself, yes her trauma, but also why she chose to act on it in this way. Figure out her why. Why this and not some other kind of self-destructive behavior. And you need to let that process happen without taking any portion of the blame or finding outs for her. It may not seem like it now but if you don't, you will essentially rugsweep this and it will come back to bite you later.

A common refrain here is that while you share in the marital issues, the infidelity is completely on the WS.

Unrelated last point. I sincerely hope, for both your sakes, that you have the full truth of it and more is not coming. Folks here suggest that unfortunately expect more TT because experience has taught us that it is likely. And honestly, your wife has forfeited the benefit of the doubt. So my advice would be to hope for the best, but expect the worst. And perhaps you will be the exception to the rule. I certainly hope so.

Your response and feelings are normal. I lost 30 pounds in 21 days. I am not sure how that is possible, but it happened.

Give yourself time. You don't need to make any decisions for a long time. You don't need to force your, her or y'all's healing to any timeline.

Let yourself process the shock--which means no heavy drinking to dull it.

Could you take a few days off and go on holiday by yourself to think/feel?

Just little observation on after DDay meeting. She met him not to discuss divorce or financial issues, which could have been mentioned as well, but rather what story are they going to deliver you. They agreed on what will they tell, how much details etc if it comes to interrogation of them both, which you did. That's why she is so exited about her 'honesty', was so confident on not being caught there. Perhaps insignificant in light of her betrayal, but she kept betraying after DDay, chose loyalty to AP, not you. This is a red flag...