SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Based on memory, 30yo well built contractor doing project had sex with wife every day for 3-4 weeks with any acts the guy wanted, a little degrading, and they both told wwtl what a great job the contractor was doing so wwtl thanked the guy regularly, plus wife tried not to give wwtl sloppy seconds but the sloppy seconds did happen a number of times. It was so egregious that an employee called wwtl about it. Wwtl then got a PI and got pictures.

As bad of a 3-4 week of an affair as I've seen here. Wife gave "true remorse." Wwtl never told contractor's wife, hence his username waited way too long (posted 5 years after discovery/confrontation). Wife claimed no sex in marital bed, always rang false to wwtl because this guy got off on rubbing wwtl behind his back. Apparently the contractor had issues about wealthy guys who were his "boss"/client and that was how he punished his clients.

Wwtl also said he was unhappy that wife was in extreme exercise/fitness apparently for other man but after the affair she stopped all that and still was attractive but wwtl felt slighted.

Wwtl always had a tinge of lack of joy in the marriage even five years later but took in account wife's stellar history prior to the affair with great kids who were fine young adults and wife's apparent complete remorse immediately.

In the past year the marital bed lie fell on her own guilt after wwtl's prodding and now the no contact lie just fell because of the threat of poly. In my opinion the marital bed and last no contact (if that was all it was) are only significant because of the continued lies.

I remember because of similarities in my situation, length of marriage, no real marriage problems beforehand, immediate remorse, cold turkey on no contact.

If I'm wrong please correct me.

that's pretty much what I recall.

wwtl - I don't know friend. it sounds kind of like your wife is beaten down and unable to pull herself together. she should have given you the truth a long time ago, damn the consequences. But maybe she is so frozen with fear that she can't tell you?. Was it always this way? Are you very dominant and she is submissive? or did she just become submissive as a result of her affair and your reaction?

Personally, I can see why you're upset. I'm sorry brother. Hang in there.

[This message edited by mike7 at 4:35 PM, March 28th (Tuesday)]

Hello friend. I've been away from the SI for a while. Stopped in and read your recent developments. I've said it to you before, as you have said it to me....I feel and understand your pain. The disappointment on how your wife handled hersel after DDay. Exactly what I experienced and still question how I'm still here. What you are going through is exactly what I'm most fearful of...additional TT. How does any BS really ever know what went on during the affairs against us. And I to feel like you....weak for staying and weak for not leaving. No advice here except support. I never mentioned to you that I also play golf. I have all my life and now helps me escape. If you get down to S FL.....

I have followed your story also. In part because when I look at you I see a lot of me 25 + years ago.

The trickle truth; it is a bitch and yes it hurts no matter what. I have gotten some of that over the years. After the initial DDay and first few months never on anything significant except for one thing. I know others will say ANY TT is significant. I disagree. Our wives are human and they are flawed. And, in your case and mine, scared of losing what they have. We're you ever scared of losing a business deal, or a promotion or something else very important? Did you ever stretch the truth to ais yourself? That is what your W did. As did mine every now and then. Stretch and twist and put just the right spin on to say what is necessary to protect what is precious to her.

I am not excusing it. It was wrong. But it was human. So while those type of things will piss you off, to me they are not reasons to back away from R IF.... IF you really want to R.

And I think your problem is that you still can't make up your mind on if you want to R.

I will say that if there is even the slightest doubt as to whether there was any physical contact at the coffee shop or slightest doubt about whether there was more communication after that, then either poly her or say that's enough and file for D.

Just don't keep torturing yourself byUsing this as an excuse to keep sitting on that damned fence. It's been 6 years. Your W is either worth going all in on R with or she is not. Set yourself free and set her free or tell her you are in if she is. And if you do the latter, be all in. Stop asking yourself if you are being a wimp for staying. You are not. Be proud you are strong enough to survive the shitstorm and make your own decisions rather than her calling the shots. Start looking forward and stop being controlled by the past.

wwtl: your reaction to this seems way out of proportion to this one particular incident. I hope you realize that this TT has simply opened the door to the compartment you stored all of this away in. Its forcing you to look at everything again. Everything. It's that part of infidelity that keeps on giving. I don't know how BW's view this but the emasculation that happens to a BH doesn't go away. The pain and anger come as the memory of all of it flows into our heads. It all hurts again - what she did, who she did it with, in my house, in our bed, lying to my face every day.

I suggest that you are not done processing this - which is really pretty obvious. Tell me, has your life circumstances changed to where divorce is not as frightening as it was back then? Like kids growing up? Maybe finances more secure? Or, possibly, your subconscious has been processing this all along and is pushing into your conscious. Maybe you should leave for a while.

It has been an intense couple of days. I had a scheduled session with

my IC Monday night, which he wanted to do a follow up today.

Before I get to that, wk55 and Mike, you are pretty close to the events. The only thing different was the PI never took pictures. It really isn't anything like the movies. He was an overweight ex cop that does anything to minimize physical conflict.

I pretty much knew what was going to happen. I hid a key to the house for him. He waited awhile after everyone left and and let himself into the house with a letter giving him permission to enter. He followed the voices to the master bedroom. He knocked and entered finding my wife and the AP in towels coming out of the shower. He announced who he was and why he was there and said he was going to call me and will be downstairs waiting. He then called me.

the AP flew out of there 2 minutes later and left. My wife came down crying and pleading with him not to call me. He told me he already had when she then pleaded for him to call and say it was a mistake.

He said no, and told her that I would call her in a few minutes and left. She didn't wait and blew up my phone. I waited what felt like a long time and called her. She started with it was a mistake and wasn't what i think and i just hung up. I again waited and called her and told her i wasn't coming home tonight and I might never and she better stop with the lies. I then left town on a business trip and was almost dark for a few days. I called to tell her to fire him with the GC and a few other things.

the other difference is the WWTL is more that I drifted in my marriage for 5 years. It wasn't that I was always unhappy, but I really wasn't happy and it was time to do something about it. Divorce was where I was heading. Everything else pretty close.

To the IC. we talked about what had just happened and how upset I was. He said I had every right to be. I then said I think this is a deal breaker and he kind of smirked. I wanted to know what that was for. He told me that even though we haven't been doing this long he knew me well enough that if I wanted a deal breaker I would have broken the deal along time ago. He doesn't tell me much as he likes to drag shit out of me, but he said his opinion was none of this is a deal breaker as I love her and deep down I don't want to leave, but don't know how to stay. Probably echoing a lot of what I have been hearing here. He said am not a pussy. My kids are gone, money is ok, nothing was there to stop me from calling an attorney and just filing if that is what I really wanted to do. That kind of hit home.

We also talked about how he thought I might not ever get to forgiveness and I will always be pissed off about this. If I wanted to stay I would just have to learn how to live with getting fucked over. People get fucked over everyday and life has to go on. He also wanted me to think about how with everything I have done with the separation that it was the only way I felt I had to fight back. It was also a big test to see how much shit I could hand her before she would walk. Except she didn't. Probably not far from the truth either.

The session was over and we continued this morning about what to do. He said if I felt the need for the poly to go ahead and do it, but not to do it at this point if it was for spite. He asked me if I felt deep down if that were it and I said I think it was. He also recommended I go back and just once agin try to do what we were doing the last few weeks before this all blew up. Pretend if I have to.

I had this conversation this afternoon with my wife. She is insistent on the poly even though at this point the idea of her hooked into wires kind of disgusts me. We agreed she could stay. Now in separate bedrooms, and do some things together. I would hardly say we are in r, but at least I feel this storm has kind of passed. I ams sure I am going to get flamed for this.

Thissux hit the nail on the head with I have to try to figure out reasons to stay and not fill the ledger with reasons to leave. It still might happen, but I have to look ahead, even though I will never forgive the past.

I am exhausted from all this.

No flames from me.

Ain't nothing easy about a damn bit of this stuff.

Rest up. Tomorrow is new day.

I think your IC is giving you good advice. Except for the "pretend if you have to" crap. You pretended/rugswept for five years. Don't do that. Talk about it. Examine it. Yell,cry,but do not pretend.

I'm glad you saw the ic buddy. Finding the loophole is hard and it takes help. He's right, you're not a pussy. Our code of conduct is strong but it can cause us to make decisions that hurt us more than if we just could forgive. I think the hardest part is forgiving ourselves for breaking the code. It's ok.

Every person on this site who reconciled broke their own "predetermined" code in order to give their spouse another chance. You have nothing to feel shame for loving your wife more than your code. It forces us to change and it's a hell of an undoing to get there.

I have been reading your threads from the beginning and I don't recall if she ever gave you a detailed time line, if not maybe you should tell her this is her last chance to get it right spell it all out so you can read it and try to put this behind you so you can work on a new relationship in a new location.

From what you have posted after discovery you kind of did your own thing and didn't nurture the relationship to let it grow or let it die. Selfishness in your own way, understandable, but still in limbo.

Getting over your own moral code is the hardest thing about this whole mess. I relished in every single Tiger Woods loss after he destroyed his family. I still do. His entire career went to nothing (injuries I know), but it all happened after his infidelities came out. I despise cheating with every ounce of my body. How do I get past the fact that I'm married to one? I don't know. I haven't made any decisions yet myself.

Good luck to you. I've been rooting for you and your wife for a while.

I think your IC is spot on. It's hard to find a good counselor. Whether you R or D stick with this IC. He/she is going to help you get through this. Because either way you have to get through this. I also agree- people get shit every day. You aren't special. Your shit might be different than someone else's, but people still have shit.

As for the pretending- I agree there too. Don't rugsweep and I don't think that's what he's saying. Fake it too you make it. Go out on a date and pretend that it's for the first time. Let yourself fall in love again. I did this without rugsweeping a single thing

No flames from me either. I think you have a good IC who knows you well.

If you haven't already I think you should talk to your W about "having a reason to stay." Find something to get past that point.

Some of the best conversations I've had with my W were related to "Why should I stay in a M that has hurt me so much ? Why would I stay with someone that hurt me in ways I did not know I could be hurt ?"

Let your W show you how she has changed and why she is worth another risk. Your W did this to herself as much, if not more than, she did this to you. Let her carry that burden. It isn't yours to own.

You have demonstrated a strength that few people have. You have demonstrated compassion and generosity. You are able to see things beyond the tip of your nose.

While focusing on a reasons to stay also take some time to focus on your individual traits you value in yourself and see how they have growth through this process.

You cannot change the past. You can try to find the good things that came out of this horrible time in your life.

They ARE there, but you won't see them if you don't look for them.

You found a good IC, I see. (Sorry, couldn't help it.)

It is still your choice to make. You have a lot of power here, but in a relationship between 2 people, there are 2 (potentially) powerful people, and their interests aren't identical.

You're posting on the R forum. Most of the men who post here are in R or have R'ed. We've dealt, in some way, with the charge of liking being cuckolded. (For the record, I didn't like it one bit.) You don't see many posts from the men who say they wanted R, but they D'ed because their Ws would not do the work necessary to R. You don't see them, but they exist.

IIRC, you posted something to the effect that you wished you had the strength to R. (I hope that's an accurate memory!) But both D & R require a lot of strength - and you have the strength you need.

Bottom line: go for what you want. If you choose R, will there be people who think less of you (if they know)? Who cares?

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:34 AM, March 29th (Wednesday)]

I think your IC was right to challenge you about your deal breakers but I highly disagree with his advice to go back to dating your WW as if this never happened. Isn't that what got you back here in the first place? Didn't not demanding the truth and polying years ago lead to two big TT reveals this year? Ask yourself, honestly, if you find out in a year from now that your WW lied about something else big, broken NC, another meeting, another EA/PA, would that be a deal breaker for you? If the answer is yes, do the polygraph. Save yourself the possibility even if you do R.

Hi there,

It sounds like you are doing a great job of thinking it through. I am glad that your wife wants to go through with the poly to help you, even if you are finding the details of how it will happen unpleasant.

I have felt for a while that your mutual love and her sincere remorse were strong enough that it would be possible to build a good marriage. I like the idea that you try to fill the "positive ledger" as you put it. Getting there might be as simple as going from "I love her, but..." to just "I love her." and building that positive balance a day at a time.

A side note: seems like you like living where you are now. If you decided to try things together, would you make your current home your main home and visit the old one on occasion? Would that make it easier to do what you are leaning towards doing?

Best wishes!

I don't have much to add, but want to give you my best wishes for the days and months ahead as you work through this WWTL.

I've lived through everything you are dealing with right now. Whether you finally choose to stay or divorce I'd like to see you make an informed decision. Take a few minutes to read this:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-power-prime/201112/four-forces-life-inertia

Talk about this with your counselor. He/she is aware of this kind of thing and understands how powerful life inertia can be and help you overcome it to the point where you at least understand why you feel so conflicted over certain things.

I stayed due fear - plain and simple. It was much, much easier to stay and pray for a miracle than to fight the inertia of life. That, my friend, is to say I was afraid of change. My only defense is that I had no idea that my emotional illness, my pathological need for love and security, was ruling my life. My love for my wife died that day but my sick need for a secure family life kept me in the marriage. I lied to myself a hundred times, over and over again, that I would heal someday. I told myself that her cheating wasn't really that bad - that I could bear it. As time went by more physical and emotional entanglements came and now I'm staying because I have to stay. But I know I traded the chance to pursue real happiness when I didn't divorce her years ago.

I hope you do not make this same mistake.

As you have probably surmised by my earlier post, I am an old soldier and a romantic. I usually believe in second chances when they are earned and truly wanted. I think you have a very smart IC. If I were you, I would hold on to the IC and my wife. You are never going to forget what happened. It will be with you until your last breath whether you D or R. I have wounds that I will never forget how I got them. They especially remind me on rainy and cold days. But I would not trade them if it meant I would not have lived the life I had when getting them. I really believe you had a very good life with your wife before the infidelity (wound) and deep down you want to hold on to her and love her and get back some of what you and her had before. It still appears, to me, she is still the love of your life and deep in your heart you know that without her you will always feel something is missing. She has had all the chances in the world to leave and you have had all the chances to divorce, yet you are still married and together. What does that tell you? Love and a life connection is a hard bond to break especially if you have doubts about breaking it. My advice, hold on to her and start to rebuild some of what you had. I truly wish you well.

P.S. You never did say if the SOB who started this got away clean. The vengeful part of me sure hopes not.

Mike, just focused on your question about her being submissive. I was probably more dominant pre affair, but it was much more of a partnership. After, and I have said it here, she has become extremely submissive, to the point of where it is a problem. We have talked about it, to be honest, after DDay I did not make it a safe place for her to tell me anything or to find any comfort in our relationship. I grew up in the era of no participation awards or time outs. When you screwed up you paid the price. I was never physical, but I certainly let her know what I thought of her

To answer another couple of questions. I am at a seasonal place right now. Great for the winter, not so much for the summer. I am not going back to the house. It is still for sale, and hopefully will sell in the spring. I plan to go into a rental property. The question is does she join me?. I am not going to buy anything else, even if it does sell. Even though we are better, we are still not out of the woods and I don't want to commit that much money.

For the AP. I heard from my friend who tipped me off, that he moved out of the area. I did a google search for him and nothing came up. I could really try to find him, but I don't have a lot of evidence to show to his spouse. Right now it is something I am not going to pursue. Have other issues to work out

I wish I could say that after the IC kind of breakthrough that things were hunky dory, but they are not. We had a really good rhythm going before this happened. That rhythm has not returned. Not to say that it won't, but I am still kind of out of sorts and affair is now even more top of mind fir me.

She has been great, but frankly before where I was looking to spend time with her, I am back to not really caring. I know I need to work on that and hopefully it will come back.

I think I need some distance from this last episode